Armchair GMs: What moves would you make to maximize the roster?

[Pavels Dog]

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Well, it's the same age Brad Stuart, Doug Murray and several other big defensive guys games took a nose dive. Again the big hulking defenseman is a lot more suceptible to that rapid decline when the skating goes.

And I think he was actually a decent top pair guys there a few years ago, but sorry he's been pretty bad since about 2012. Not his fault he gets slotted where he shouldn't, but he has nights he's just tough to watch. Think maybe you're just a little bias because of that flag in your profile on Big E.

Doug Murray was always an awful skater, and Stuart never moved that great either.. both of them played a pretty physically demanding style too. Time will tell but I think E will age better.

Hey I don't disagree that he has awful nights, especially last season. But I stand by what I said, which is basic fact... he is on our top pairing, and we are a playoff team. Is he the man we want for that job? No. But he is the one we have. He's keeping the #2 position warm until someone better suited can take it. And as long as he doesn't drag us down too much (even last year he was only a -5), it's worth 4.25 million.

And heck, he was pretty good in the playoffs. Call me biased but Big E and Franzen just get too much hate around here. One is hated because he's not a legit #2 d-man, the other because he's not Marian Hossa.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

If your GM preaches "Defense by committee," that committee isn't going to work when your #2 defenseman is clearly incapable of doing his job. You are asking for inconsistency in a part of your lineup where you should expect consistency.

 

[SirloinUB]

I too believe Ericsson will rebound. Lets not forget his body of work since Lidstrom retired. He has given us a season and a half of reliable defense on the top pairing. He eats the most difficult minutes on the team and is good on the PK.

He is also the biggest and strongest defenseman we have. Its important to have someone who can clear the opposing teams big players from the front of the net. Big Rig is pretty damn good at that.


His salary is manageable, especially considering the minutes he plays. Lastly, him and Kronwall have great chemistry. Sure, last season they lost some of their luster but they know how to challenge their opponents. Between Kronwall's big open ice hits and Ericsson's strength, they can really wear on the opponent.

Now that a year has passed since his wrist surgery, I can see him playing in better form. He is a competitive guy and I expect him to solidify some of more difficult match-ups.

 

[Chex LeMeneux]

I too believe Ericsson will rebound. Lets not forget his body of work since Lidstrom retired. He has given us a season and a half of reliable defense on the top pairing. He eats the most difficult minutes on the team and is good on the PK.

He is also the biggest and strongest defenseman we have. Its important to have someone who can clear the opposing teams big players from the front of the net. Big Rig is pretty damn good at that.


His salary is manageable, especially considering the minutes he plays. Lastly, him and Kronwall have great chemistry. Sure, last season they lost some of their luster but they know how to challenge their opponents. Between Kronwall's big open ice hits and Ericsson's strength, they can really wear on the opponent.

Now that a year has passed since his wrist surgery, I can see him playing in better form. He is a competitive guy and I expect him to solidify some of more difficult match-ups.

I personally don't understand the Ericsson hate, and anyone who thinks Holland will give him the boot is out to lunch. He's the only thing remotely resembling a crease-clearing defenseman that we have, and he's never afraid to do the dirty work in the corners or in front of the net.

A defense corps composed of all skilled puckmovers is not realistic. At some point you need a guy like Big E. Is he played above his head? Sure. Is he a bit too expensive? Maybe, but if the cap goes up the cost of #3/4 defensemen will rise with it. Also, people may not like it, but now that our formerly highly regarded d prospects haven't panned out, I will not be at all surprised to see Holland protect him in the upcoming expansion draft.

 

[Actual Thought*]

I personally don't understand the Ericsson hate, and anyone who thinks Holland will give him the boot is out to lunch. He's the only thing remotely resembling a crease-clearing defenseman that we have, and he's never afraid to do the dirty work in the corners or in front of the net.

A defense corps composed of all skilled puckmovers is not realistic. At some point you need a guy like Big E. Is he played above his head? Sure. Is he a bit too expensive? Maybe, but if the cap goes up the cost of #3/4 defensemen will rise with it. Also, people may not like it, but now that our formerly highly regarded d prospects haven't panned out, I will not be at all surprised to see Holland protect him in the upcoming expansion draft.

People tend to not realize he plays all his shifts against the best players in the world. Sometimes those guys score. He had an off year last year and apparently he wasn't healthy. I agree though, He isn't going anywhere and his contract isn't a bad contract at all. It seems posters have a very skewed idea of what a good defenceman is. No comprehension of roles. If he isn't Lidstrom he sucks. 2 different coaches have kept E in his slot. Kronner wants him in that slot. Not our greatest worry.

 

[Frk It]

I personally don't understand the Ericsson hate, and anyone who thinks Holland will give him the boot is out to lunch. He's the only thing remotely resembling a crease-clearing defenseman that we have, and he's never afraid to do the dirty work in the corners or in front of the net.

A defense corps composed of all skilled puckmovers is not realistic. At some point you need a guy like Big E. Is he played above his head? Sure. Is he a bit too expensive? Maybe, but if the cap goes up the cost of #3/4 defensemen will rise with it. Also, people may not like it, but now that our formerly highly regarded d prospects haven't panned out, I will not be at all surprised to see Holland protect him in the upcoming expansion draft.

There's a place for Ericsson, or a player like Ericsson on the team. But that place is NOT the top pairing.

Look at the complement to the #1 on the teams we are chasing. Seabrook, Stralman, Muzzin, Markov. Those guys aren't just a little better than Ericsson. They're way better.

It's not Ericsson's fault. Holland should have been able to come up with a top pairing guy in 14 years and he hasn't. Buy he frustrates the hell out of me in comparison to what I see other playoff teams icing, and I think Kronwall deserves a better partner. Probably shouldn't direct ALL of that at Ericsson, but he's an easy target with his game slipping for a little now.

 

[Frk It]

People tend to not realize he plays all his shifts against the best players in the world. Sometimes those guys score. He had an off year last year and apparently he wasn't healthy. I agree though, He isn't going anywhere and his contract isn't a bad contract at all. It seems posters have a very skewed idea of what a good defenceman is. No comprehension of roles. If he isn't Lidstrom he sucks. 2 different coaches have kept E in his slot. Kronner wants him in that slot. Not our greatest worry.

Comparing anyone to Lidstrom is silly, Kronwall included. Pretty sure Lids is from another planet

But compare Ericsson to CONTENDING teams complement to the #1 and you see we seriously, seriously are lacking.

 

[Chex LeMeneux]

People tend to not realize he plays all his shifts against the best players in the world. Sometimes those guys score. He had an off year last year and apparently he wasn't healthy. I agree though, He isn't going anywhere and his contract isn't a bad contract at all. It seems posters have a very skewed idea of what a good defenceman is. No comprehension of roles. If he isn't Lidstrom he sucks. 2 different coaches have kept E in his slot. Kronner wants him in that slot. Not our greatest worry.

That's exactly it. Ericsson has a very specific role on this team, one that's far more important to the team than to a spectator. He plays that role to a tee.

There's a place for Ericsson, or a player like Ericsson on the team. But that place is NOT the top pairing.

Look at the complement to the #1 on the teams we are chading. Seabrook, Stralman, Muzzin, Markov. Those guys aren't just a little better than Ericsson. They're way better.

It's not Ericsson's fault. Holland should have been able to come up with a top pairing guy in 14 years and he hasn't. Buy he frustrates the hell out of me in comparison to what I see other playoff teams icing, and I think Kronwall deserves a better partner. Probably shouldn't direct ALL of that at Ericsson, but he's an easy target with his game slipping for a little now.

Absolutely. Not to get into the Holland debate, but we have the players we have and he just happens to work best with our #1 guy. In an ideal world he'd probably be on the second pair, but it seems we're putting blame on a player when it isn't exactly his fault.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Comparing anyone to Lidstrom is silly, Kronwall included. Pretty sure Lids is from another planet

But compare Ericsson to other teams complements to the #1 and you see we seriously, seriously are lacking.

Adam McQuaid
Josh Gorges
Rob Hainsey
Andy Greene
Dan Girardi
Mark Methot
Nick Schultz
Ian Cole
Brooks Orpik
Josh Manson
Justin Braun
Chris Tanev

These are some guys playing the #2 slot around the league. I could include some others too but you get the point. A lot of teams have a #2 that isn't exactly... the most exciting player. I don't think people on this board are comparing E to Lidstrom, but I do think they are comparing him mostly to the top 5-10 #2s in the league. Guys like Seabrook, Stralman, Josi etc., and he's obviously very lacking compared to them.

 

[Frk It]

Adam McQuaid
Josh Gorges
Rob Hainsey
Andy Greene
Dan Girardi
Mark Methot
Nick Schultz
Ian Cole
Brooks Orpik
Josh Manson
Justin Braun
Chris Tanev

These are some guys playing the #2 slot around the league. I could include some others too but you get the point. A lot of teams have a #2 that isn't exactly... the most exciting player. I don't think people on this board are comparing E to Lidstrom, but I do think they are comparing him mostly to the top 5-10 #2s in the league. Guys like Seabrook, Stralman, Josi etc., and he's obviously very lacking compared to them.

I see you picked the post where I didn't say contenders complements to #1 so you could include some garbage teams.

Orpik and Girardi are decent comparables. Maatta will take Cole's spot in short order. With Girardi you also have insane depth with Yandle, Staal, Klein, and Boyle rounding out that rotation. Way better than ours.

90% of those teams are teams I'd prefer not to associate us with.

 

[Flowah]

I personally don't understand the Ericsson hate, and anyone who thinks Holland will give him the boot is out to lunch. He's the only thing remotely resembling a crease-clearing defenseman that we have, and he's never afraid to do the dirty work in the corners or in front of the net.

A defense corps composed of all skilled puckmovers is not realistic. At some point you need a guy like Big E. Is he played above his head? Sure. Is he a bit too expensive? Maybe, but if the cap goes up the cost of #3/4 defensemen will rise with it. Also, people may not like it, but now that our formerly highly regarded d prospects haven't panned out, I will not be at all surprised to see Holland protect him in the upcoming expansion draft.

Dekeyer's a pretty good crease clearer. E is fine if he's a #3/4. But obviously that's not how he's being used. That is made very clear by his play and how often he's taken advantage of. Lots of fans like Miller and Glendening. Considerably fewer fans would like it if they played top line and power play. Where you play dictates how well you do, relatively speaking, and will affect how people judge your play.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Comparing anyone to Lidstrom is silly, Kronwall included. Pretty sure Lids is from another planet

But compare Ericsson to CONTENDING teams complement to the #1 and you see we seriously, seriously are lacking.

There seems to be a weird misconception here that there is an exact recipe for success and there can be no deviation from that recipe. You do understand that there is more than one way to build a winning team right? You do understand that the Wings are a very successful team right? Maybe you are just wrong?

 

[Actual Thought*]

Dekeyer's a pretty good crease clearer. E is fine if he's a #3/4. But obviously that's not how he's being used. That is made very clear by his play and how often he's taken advantage of. Lots of fans like Miller and Glendening. Considerably fewer fans would like it if they played top line and power play. Where you play dictates how well you do, relatively speaking, and will affect how people judge your play.

How do you explain that they put up a 100 point season last year with E having his worst year?

 

[Frk It]

There seems to be a weird misconception here that there is an exact recipe for success and there can be no deviation from that recipe. You do understand that there is more than one way to build a winning team right? You do understand that the Wings are a very successful team right? Maybe you are just wrong?

Sure. But maybe you are, too. And maybe we can talk about things the Wings can work on even if they have proven to be successful for a sustained period of time. I'm sure Holland and Martin do, and I'd venture improving the defense is at the top list for the same reasons I'm talking about.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I see you picked the post where I didn't say contenders complements to #1 so you could include some garbage teams.

Orpik and Girardi are decent comparables. Maatta will take Cole's spot in short order. With Girardi you also have insane depth with Yandle, Staal, Klein, and Boyle rounding out that rotation. Way better than ours.

90% of those teams are teams I'd prefer not to associate us with.

Sorry missed that post, did not ignore it on purpose. Fair enough. We are certainly lacking in our top-pairing compared to the teams we want to beat. It's not a problem we will solve easily. Better hope that our improved defensive depth, stacked forward group and new coaching can somehow overcome that weakness in the #2 slot. I don't feel like Ericsson has really been a major reason of our playoff losses the last few years. Last year he was good, the year before he was injured (that hurt us), against Chicago I only remember Smith killing us... so IF he can actually play his best hockey in the playoffs, we have a fighting chance.

 

[SoupNazi]

How do you explain that they put up a 100 point season last year with E having his worst year?

You realize teams can have good years in spite of lousy performances from certain players, right? They're not necessarily connected.

 

[Frk It]

How do you explain that they put up a 100 point season last year with E having his worst year?

The rest of the team is good. Good enough to do that in spite of him. But it's the biggest hole in the lineup, and the reason Holland has pursued defenseman after defenseman in free agency and trades.

 

[Frk It]

Sorry missed that post, did not ignore it on purpose. Fair enough. We are certainly lacking in our top-pairing compared to the teams we want to beat. It's not a problem we will solve easily. Better hope that our improved defensive depth, stacked forward group and new coaching can somehow overcome that weakness in the #2 slot. I don't feel like Ericsson has really been a major reason of our playoff losses the last few years. Last year he was good, the year before he was injured (that hurt us), against Chicago I only remember Smith killing us... so IF he can actually play his best hockey in the playoffs, we have a fighting chance.

I think our forward depth can compensate a bit for the less than ideal depth in defense. But I also think Holland will explore a trade to balance things out, I don't really think he will have a choice with how these young forwards are progressing.

 

[Actual Thought*]

The rest of the team is good. Good enough to do that in spite of him. But it's the biggest hole in the lineup, and the reason Holland has pursued defenseman after defenseman in free agency and trades.

I disagree. I think they wanted to balance the 2nd pairing and add some offence from the blueline. That is exactly what they have done. Every indication is that they see E as their top pairing partner for Kronwall. If E is healthy he will be just fine.

 

[Flowah]

How do you explain that they put up a 100 point season last year with E having his worst year?

Do you think teams with good records don't have a single, single player on their roster who is playing above his paygrade and having it show?

Even teams making it to the finals have passengers. Even cup winners have passengers. Honestly....

I disagree. I think they wanted to balance the 2nd pairing and add some offence from the blueline. That is exactly what they have done. Every indication is that they see E as their top pairing partner for Kronwall. If E is healthy he will be just fine.

Yes, every indication is that they see him that way. But other indications, statistically and watching him, show that he's not. Him being locked in as top pairing is more to do with the weakness of our defensive group than anything else.

 

[Frk It]

I disagree. I think they wanted to balance the 2nd pairing and add some offence from the blueline. That is exactly what they have done. Every indication is that they see E as their top pairing partner for Kronwall. If E is healthy he will be just fine.

The 2nd pairing was the best pairing last year, while the top pairing was bad. Had there been a top pairing guy, I am sure they would have gone for it. I bet we are not done pursuing defenseman, and I bet our name continues to come up for big name defenseman this upcoming deadline and offseason.

 

[Chex LeMeneux]

Dekeyer's a pretty good crease clearer. E is fine if he's a #3/4. But obviously that's not how he's being used. That is made very clear by his play and how often he's taken advantage of. Lots of fans like Miller and Glendening. Considerably fewer fans would like it if they played top line and power play. Where you play dictates how well you do, relatively speaking, and will affect how people judge your play.

I'm not gonna argue that E deserves to be on the top pair. Like I've said, he's an ideal middle pair guy. But it's more a product of not having anyone else.

We've discussed Dekeyser playing with Kronwall and usually the consensus is either we need DK to anchor the 2nd pair or both he and Kronwall's play suffers when playing on the right side. So who else is there? I still haven't given up on Smith, but even I'm not sure he should be with Kronwall. And everyone seems to know for a fact that Green will get burned if he's #2. And even if we could get a top 4 figured out that excludes E, what then? We have 2 4+ million dollar players on the bottom pair, which looks real ugly, and is very likely unacceptable in Holland's eyes. So again, it's a product of the situation we're in, which isn't Ericsson's fault nor is it a valid reason to bash him.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Do you think teams with good records don't have a single, single player on their roster who is playing above his paygrade and having it show?

Even teams making it to the finals have passengers. Even cup winners have passengers. Honestly....


Yes, every indication is that they see him that way. But other indications, statistically and watching him, show that he's not. Him being locked in as top pairing is more to do with the weakness of our defensive group than anything else.

With the addition of Green I don't think the d as a group is as weak as it is made out to be. We have a very good #1. The potential for the best 2nd pairing in the league. Q and Smith as a 3rd pair. Not close to as bad as it is being made out to be. If E is healthy we have very little to worry about.

 

[Flowah]

I'm not gonna argue that E deserves to be on the top pair. Like I've said, he's an ideal middle pair guy. But it's more a product of not having anyone else.

We've discussed Dekeyser playing with Kronwall and usually the consensus is either we need DK to anchor the 2nd pair or both he and Kronwall's play suffers when playing on the right side. So who else is there? I still haven't given up on Smith, but even I'm not sure he should be with Kronwall. And everyone seems to know for a fact that Green will get burned if he's #2. And even if we could get a top 4 figured out that excludes E, what then? We have 2 4+ million dollar players on the bottom pair, which looks real ugly, and is very likely unacceptable in Holland's eyes. So again, it's a product of the situation we're in, which isn't Ericsson's fault nor is it a valid reason to bash him.

Saying that E isn't good enough to play top pair, or that he makes a lot of mistakes on the top pair, is all completely accurate and fair to say. It's not only his fault, but it is partly his fault.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Adam McQuaid
Josh Gorges
Rob Hainsey
Andy Greene
Dan Girardi
Mark Methot
Nick Schultz
Ian Cole
Brooks Orpik
Josh Manson
Justin Braun
Chris Tanev


These are some guys playing the #2 slot around the league. I could include some others too but you get the point. A lot of teams have a #2 that isn't exactly... the most exciting player. I don't think people on this board are comparing E to Lidstrom, but I do think they are comparing him mostly to the top 5-10 #2s in the league. Guys like Seabrook, Stralman, Josi etc., and he's obviously very lacking compared to them.

bolded are way better than ericsson. the ones who aren't bolded, their role/lack of better replacement is a big issue on their team.