Armchair GMs: What moves would you make to maximize the roster?

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Talking about next year though. And drafting isn't an exact science. You can't just say "well let's draft a physical player with solid defensive abilities and capacity to score 20+ goals". Why let a guy like Abby go when he's finally taken the next step in his career? It's not like the choice is Abby or Hossa. The choice is Abby or.. ?


So re-sign Abby and trade him when we see if Bert and/or Svechnikov can replace what he brings. Nastasiuk? I doubt he ever becomes half of what Abby is.

And if Abby has a weaker year, he won't cost 4 mil.

If he has a reasonable contract, there is no issue.

Unfortunately, he probably won't get a reasonable contract.

Trading is easier said done when:

A.) Your GM is Ken Holland

B.) You give your overpaid player a NMC.

(These overpaid glorified third line guys with a scoring touch are virtually unmovable too.)

 

[Pavels Dog]

Re-sign Abby and trade him?

We all know if Gator is brought back, he is never leaving Detroit. He will be the new Dan Cleary.

I thought Glendening was the new Cleary?

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Yeah the Hawks were willing to admit they were wrong to sign Bickell by waiving him. Would Ken "My word is my bond" Holland do the same?

 

[Shaman464]

You can't overpay role players in cap era NHL.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Yeah the Hawks were willing to admit they were wrong to sign Bickell by waiving him. Would Ken "My word is my bond" Holland do the same?

They did win the cup with him though. Anyway Holland rarely overpays, at least not for our homegrown players, and Abby is not Bickell.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

They did win the cup with him though. Anyway Holland rarely overpays, at least not for our homegrown players, and Abby is not Bickell.

Jonathan Ericsson and his albatross deal would disagree with you. We aren't even half way through his contract. Try to imagine Jonathan Ericsson three years from now. It ain't pretty. Heck it's not pretty right now.

Holland views too many players as core players. If you think a team can have 5+ core players, you are going to have a bad time.

Bickell put up 28 points in 80 games last season while averaging 12:05 per game.

Gator put up 44 points in 71 games last season while averaging 17:55 per game

And i suspect Bickell didn't see the PP as much as Gator did. You give Bickell 3-4 more minutes a night, does he put up similar #'s to Gator?

 

[Pavels Dog]

Jonathan Ericsson and his albatross deal would disagree with you. We aren't even half way through his contract. Try to imagine Jonathan Ericsson three years from now. It ain't pretty.

Holland views too many players as core players. If you think a team can have 5+ core players, you are going to have a bad time.

4.25 isn't an albatross and E in 3 years is probably exactly the same player he is now (only cheaper relative to salary cap and hopefully no more than a #4). But it's no surprise Holland's worst deals are on D right now. Desperation does that. We aren't desperate up front. If Abby demands too much he'll be let go. If he wants to stay he'll ask for something reasonable.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

4.25 isn't an albatross and E in 3 years is probably exactly the same player he is now (only cheaper relative to salary cap and hopefully no more than a #4). But it's no surprise Holland's worst deals are on D right now. Desperation does that. We aren't desperate up front. If Abby demands too much he'll be let go. If he wants to stay he'll ask for something reasonable.

It's a horrible contract. It wasn't good the day E signed it, and it looks even worse now. No team would want to take on that contract.

Letting Gator walk for nothing is also bad asset management. Although i would prefer that bad management over bringing him back.

Unfortunately we know Gator is coming back. The only thing we don't know, is just how bad his contract will be.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

It's a horrible contract. It wasn't good the day E signed it, and it looks even worse now. No team would want to take on that contract.

Letting Gator walk for nothing is also bad asset management. Although i would prefer that bad management over bringing him back.

Unfortunately we know Gator is coming back. The only thing we don't know, is just how bad his contract will be.

Knowing Holland the way we do, I see Gator getting something around 5 years $20 million with a full NMC. And I've a feeling that Gator will be a Wing for a very long time if he wants more then that then maybe try and move him at the trade deadline with another piece or two for Byfuglien.

 

[Frk It]

4.25 isn't an albatross and E in 3 years is probably exactly the same player he is now (only cheaper relative to salary cap and hopefully no more than a #4). But it's no surprise Holland's worst deals are on D right now. Desperation does that. We aren't desperate up front. If Abby demands too much he'll be let go. If he wants to stay he'll ask for something reasonable.

Guys that are Ericsson's size do not typically age well. And he's not exactly fleet of foot to begin with.

 

[Invictus12]

Knowing Holland the way we do, I see Gator getting something around 5 years $20 million with a full NMC. And I've a feeling that Gator will be a Wing for a very long time if he wants more then that then maybe try and move him at the trade deadline with another piece or two for Byfuglien.

Yeah I really wish he'd stop giving NMCs out as much as he does. With out it, I think the contract is only slightly high for Abby...

 

[Invictus12]

Yeah the Hawks were willing to admit they were wrong to sign Bickell by waiving him. Would Ken "My word is my bond" Holland do the same?

Do you know for a fact that Abdelkader becomes like Bickell in the stretch of the next 5 years?

Most importantly, do you think Abdelkader provides any value to the team in the present day?

 

[InjuredChoker]

Do you know for a fact that Abdelkader becomes like Bickell in the stretch of the next 5 years?

Most importantly, do you think Abdelkader provides any value to the team in the present day?

i think there's good enough chance that abdelkader goes bickell way in the next five years that i wouldn't sign him to a deal over 5 years at 4 mil and really don't want to do six year deal. 4 year deal at 4mil (ironically, the bickell contract) is something that i probably would do though. but then i wouldn't re-sign helm.

 

[Flowah]

If he has a reasonable contract, there is no issue.

Unfortunately, he probably won't get a reasonable contract.

Trading is easier said done when:

A.) Your GM is Ken Holland

B.) You give your overpaid player a NMC.

(These overpaid glorified third line guys with a scoring touch are virtually unmovable too.)

If he repeats last season, 4-4.5M seems like FMV for him. That'd be a 20+20 scorer with some grit and size whose style translates up and down the lineup.

The bigger problem, as others have already said, is that FMV for all players is just not freaking possible in a cap era. We're going to have too many other players to sign up front in the next 2 years and a bunch of very promising players in the AHL right now.

 

[Frk It]

If he repeats last season, 4-4.5M seems like FMV for him. That'd be a 20+20 scorer with some grit and size whose style translates up and down the lineup.

The bigger problem, as others have already said, is that FMV for all players is just not freaking possible in a cap era. We're going to have too many other players to sign up front in the next 2 years and a bunch of very promising players in the AHL right now.

I understand he will be a UFA, but I think it's possible we get a bit of a hometown discount from Abby. Just a gut feeling, he seems to love being a Wing.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Yeah I really wish he'd stop giving NMCs out as much as he does. With out it, I think the contract is only slightly high for Abby...

Just a feeling I've got that Holland will give Abby a NMC Khan seems to thnks that it's a gimme that Holland will lock up Abby and he seems to think it will be close to a 5 year deal and that $4 million is most likely what's offered. I agree with most on here that I wouldn't give Gator more then 4 years $16 million at the most.

 

[Flowah]

I understand he will be a UFA, but I think it's possible we get a bit of a hometown discount from Abby. Just a gut feeling, he seems to love being a Wing.

What other players have taken a hometown discount the past few years? On any team? I just don't see it happening that often. And if it does, how much comes off? Maybe .5M?

 

[Frk It]

What other players have taken a hometown discount the past few years? On any team? I just don't see it happening that often. And if it does, how much comes off? Maybe .5M?

It's rare, but I think does happen still sometimes.

I think both Crosby and Malkin did, to an extent. Think we got one from Kronwall a bit.

Jason Garrison admitted to taking one to go home to Western Canada.

 

[InjuredChoker]

What other players have taken a hometown discount the past few years? On any team? I just don't see it happening that often. And if it does, how much comes off? Maybe .5M?

erik johnson for the avs.

 

[Flowah]

It's rare, but I think does happen still sometimes.

I think both Crosby and Malkin did, to an extent. Think we got one from Kronwall a bit.

Jason Garrison admitted to taking one to go home to Western Canada.

Crosby's looks like a cap circumvention more than anything else. 12 years, front loaded. Malkin's is a bit I suppose. But it's easier for top end players to take a cut than a mid level player.

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. Even if he does I just don't think it'll be that big. We're all pegging his contract to be anywhere from 4-5M AAV. Even .5M is a 10-15% paycut per year.

 

[Winger98]

It's rare, but I think does happen still sometimes.

I think both Crosby and Malkin did, to an extent. Think we got one from Kronwall a bit.

Jason Garrison admitted to taking one to go home to Western Canada.

Kronwall was the guy who popped to my mind, too. I'm still surprised we got him as cheaply as w did. And I agree about Abdelkader being a guy who seems possible to take one.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Jonathan Ericsson and his albatross deal would disagree with you. We aren't even half way through his contract. Try to imagine Jonathan Ericsson three years from now. It ain't pretty. Heck it's not pretty right now.

Holland views too many players as core players. If you think a team can have 5+ core players, you are going to have a bad time.

Bickell put up 28 points in 80 games last season while averaging 12:05 per game.

Gator put up 44 points in 71 games last season while averaging 17:55 per game

And i suspect Bickell didn't see the PP as much as Gator did. You give Bickell 3-4 more minutes a night, does he put up similar #'s to Gator?

No, he doesn't. At that p/mins, Bickell would have had an additional 5 points if he got the same minutes to put him at 33 or 75% of Abby's numbers.

Abby's p/m was 0.035
Bickells was 0.029

So unless Bickell would magically have become Sidney Crosby for that 180 minute gap, he would not be close to Abby

 

[WingedWheel1987]

No, he doesn't. At that p/mins, Bickell would have had an additional 5 points if he got the same minutes to put him at 33 or 75% of Abby's numbers.

Abby's p/m was 0.035
Bickells was 0.029

So unless Bickell would magically have become Sidney Crosby for that 180 minute gap, he would not be close to Abby

Bickell spent the majority of the season playing with 4th line talent. He had Patrick Sharp, but Sharp was playing like garbage.

Top Three ES lines that Bickell was on last season

13.18% EV 29 BICKELL,BRYAN - 10 SHARP,PATRICK - 65 SHAW,ANDREW
10.19% EV 29 BICKELL,BRYAN - 65 SHAW,ANDREW - 86 TERAVAINEN,TEUVO
8.42% EV 29 BICKELL,BRYAN - 13 CARCILLO,DANIEL - 65 SHAW,ANDREW

Top Three ES lines that Gator was on last season

25.97% EV 8 ABDELKADER,JUSTIN - 14 NYQUIST,GUSTAV - 40 ZETTERBERG,HENRIK
16.44% EV 8 ABDELKADER,JUSTIN - 13 DATSYUK,PAVEL - 40 ZETTERBERG,HENRIK
8.06% EV 8 ABDELKADER,JUSTIN - 72 COLE,ERIK - 40 ZETTERBERG,HENRIK

You still think Bickell would only put up five more points if he were put in similar circumstances as Gator? I sure hope not.

Gator is a product of Zetterberg and Nyquist, and the difference between Bickell and Gator is negligible. If you didn't want the Wings to sign Bickell, you should not want the Wings to bring back Gator at roughly four million a year.

Just bring up some random prospect or homeless guy off the streets and he will put up 90% of Gator's production for 1/10th the price.

The Wings already have too much cap space allocated to their complementary/non core talent. Now imagine Gator and Helm taking up another 7+ million. If you are a big fan of 1st round exits, you will love it.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Guys that are Ericsson's size do not typically age well. And he's not exactly fleet of foot to begin with.

We're not talking 5+ years away though. Doubt he hits a massive decline in just 2-3 years. I know this board has a massive hate-on with E though, so I wouldn't expect anything less than his contract being seen as awful. I see a guy that is playing a top-pairing and doing it well enough to get us into the playoffs, and I think that's worth 4.25 million. I don't think he would be untradeable if it came to that, nor do I think it would be an albatross if he plays out the last year or 2 as a #4-5.

We're going to have too many other players to sign up front in the next 2 years and a bunch of very promising players in the AHL right now.

But how many are expect to get big money? We're not talking about signing Steven Stamkos.. we're gonna have some pretty cheap ELC and RFA contracts. If Datsyuk leaves after his current contract we will likely have lots of money to play with. You can't build a team on nothing but potential and promise. Having a couple of guys in the prime of their career, such as Abby, Nyquist, Tatar, Dekeyser, Smith etc. could really help out youngsters like Larkin, AA, XO, Mrazek etc.

 

[Frk It]

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We're not talking 5+ years away though. Doubt he hits a massive decline in just 2-3 years. I know this board has a massive hate-on with E though, so I wouldn't expect anything less than his contract being seen as awful. I see a guy that is playing a top-pairing and doing it well enough to get us into the playoffs, and I think that's worth 4.25 million. I don't think he would be untradeable if it came to that, nor do I think it would be an albatross if he plays out the last year or 2 as a #4-5.

Well, it's the same age Brad Stuart, Doug Murray and several other big defensive guys games took a nose dive. Again the big hulking defenseman is a lot more suceptible to that rapid decline when the skating goes.

And I think he was actually a decent top pair guys there a few years ago, but sorry he's been pretty bad since about 2012. Not his fault he gets slotted where he shouldn't, but he has nights he's just tough to watch. Think maybe you're just a little bias because of that flag in your profile on Big E.