Well duh. Abdelkader isn't counted on to be a player that carries a line or drives play, and he won't be paid like one. His role is to complement our top 6 players with his physicality and net front play. Those types of players are usually somewhat dependent on their linemates for point production, but it doesn't matter if they play their role well, which Abdelkader does.
Armchair GMs: What moves would you make to maximize the roster?
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Well duh. Abdelkader isn't counted on to be a player that carries a line or drives play, and he won't be paid like one. His role is to complement our top 6 players with his physicality and net front play. Those types of players are usually somewhat dependent on their linemates for point production, but it doesn't matter if they play their role well, which Abdelkader does.
Still paid like a complimentary player, not like a player that drives possession or carries a line. Those guys get 6-7+ AAV. 3.5-5 million is what you pay a 20+ goal, 40+ point physical winger.
Cyborg Yzerberg
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Personal preference =/= precedence and likelyhood
Abdelkader is what he is, and what he isn't is a top 6er, and what he is, is now expendable(unfortunately, I like Abby.)
Cyborg Yzerberg
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Because of the logjam of talent that is literally coming through the door.
Skill > Grit, but there are other players who will do what Abdelkader does more or less for less money.
What good is the talent if we just get bullied around? Abdelkader also brings a certain package to the team (I would classify as balls) while also being an effective screen, a competent enough playmaker (not his strongest suit but certainly more than most gritty players around bring) while also being one of only two guys that has anything resembling a mean streak and on consistent basis. Who exactly do we have that's cheaper and plays up to par? Or do we let him go to chase someone else? In that case I think you're risking to give up picks and prospects, or pay similar amount anyway (if we're talking free agency for the same calibre player) when the player is already on our hands.
Oh and grit can and does complement skill and vice versa IMO.
Compliment of Skill and Grit>>> All skill, no grit>>>> all grit no skill.
Gotta look at the team as a whole not just one player and if they have skill or grit.
Not sure I want to pay him 4.5m though. Doubt he gets that much considering what Nyquist just got.
WingedWheel1987
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Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
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Number1RedWingsFan52
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I remember when everyone wanted Bicknell on here.
Yeah glad that Holland didn't decide to to pursue him now.
Pavels Dog
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I like what Abdelkader brings to the team. I think we have to keep at least one of him and Helm. Just proven guys in the prime of their career that help bridge the gap between our current core of players and the next one.
I'd like to keep Abby. If he can match last season, why isn't he a $4 million dollar player?
Truthfully, I believe Abby is more important to this team than Helm. He simply brings more to the table and there isn't room for both of them (salary or roster space). I think you let the team play it out until January, then you take a look. Maybe you package one of them to a Western Conference team looking to upgrade their forwards and (hopefully) bring back a guy who can step into the top 4.
Abby/Helm + Jurco/Pulkinnen and/or a pick is a valuable package when offered between January and the TDL. If Kindl has a strong start, you mix him in as well.
With our depth we have an opportunity to get creative and improve the back end. I hope we seize it.
Truthfully, I believe Abby is more important to this team than Helm. He simply brings more to the table and there isn't room for both of them (salary or roster space). I think you let the team play it out until January, then you take a look. Maybe you package one of them to a Western Conference team looking to upgrade their forwards and (hopefully) bring back a guy who can step into the top 4.
Abby/Helm + Jurco/Pulkinnen and/or a pick is a valuable package when offered between January and the TDL. If Kindl has a strong start, you mix him in as well.
With our depth we have an opportunity to get creative and improve the back end. I hope we seize it.
Cyborg Yzerberg
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It's not 1985 anymore, and grit only compliments skill if the grit also has skill.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
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Do you believe it to that extent?
I think you need to have some variety in your top 9. Obviously not complete plugs, but the game really tightens in the playoffs and our lack of big bodies has really hampered us in some series. I don't think we have been void of skill, but we have been void of size and we have a lot of guys content with staying on the perimeter.
WingedWheel1987
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Players like Gator are only useful as long as they aren't being paid 4+ million a year.
You let some other organization make the mistake of locking him up for multiple years. Meanwhile the Wings replace him with a cheap prospect.
Prospect that does 80% of what Gator currently does > Paying Gator 4+ million a year
Bringing back Gator is just terrible cap management.
You let some other organization make the mistake of locking him up for multiple years. Meanwhile the Wings replace him with a cheap prospect.
Prospect that does 80% of what Gator currently does > Paying Gator 4+ million a year
Bringing back Gator is just terrible cap management.
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I highly prioritize skill over size and grit. There's too many examples of small but skilled players who not just stick it out but really make things happen on the ice. I can't say the same for big, gritty, but unskilled dudes. Maybe you need to have at least one body on each line but I just don't feel that's true. I look at Chicago and I see skill over grit (mostly) and it obviously works.
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Mo Seider Less Problems
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Maybe I'm confusing size with roles, a little. You don't have to be big to go to the net (Hudler), but I want someone crashing the net on the line. You don't have to be big to win pucks out of the corner (Datsyuk), but it's really helpful to have guys good at retrieving to keep possession going.
And on the topic of Helm or Abby being replaceable..
Well, pretty sure Mantha, Athanasiou, Larkin, Bertuzzi, Nastasiuk, Svechnikov are all over 6 feet....
Pavels Dog
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WingedWheel1987
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Which ever one closely matches Gator's skill set. If an organization thinks it can't replace a player like Gator in a reasonable time frame, they need to hire a better scouting staff.
Cyborg Yzerberg
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The thing is, size and grit are the overvalued things in hockey. When you get someone who actually uses their size well, and can produce, that is one thing. But there are so few players like that in the NHL period. A lot of teams just try to shove a square peg in a round hole. And it is almost unanimously detrimental to possession and scoring opportunities(unless that big, gritty guy can actually contribute to that.) Hell, Zach Parise was talking about this very issue last summer. Generally, the best teams don't rely on a guy like that on their top line. The Kings and Bruins sort of bucked that mold, but the Bruins especially are starting to pay for overvaluing that stuff.
I'm not saying everyone in your top 9 has to be a silky smooth play making/scoring player, but you're not going to win that many more games because a guy will throw some checks here and there. You are more likely to win the longer you hold the puck and the more you shoot the puck, hence why possession and team corsi numbers translate to the most success.
At the end of the day, you play your best players, and that's the best recipe to success. I think in a year or two, Abdelkader won't be one of the 9 best players on our offense. Which, if we resign him, will become a huge problem.
I feel like I always **** on Abdelkader on here, and it's not like I want to, I have liked Gator since he was a prospect, but I disagree with his utilization and fan perception of him so much. I still don't like Abdelkader in the top 6, and I don't want to re-sign him for what he will demand, because it'll be another albatross for a team with an increasingly tighter top 9.
Cyborg Yzerberg
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And these are the guys who make Abdelkader and Helm expendable. At least 2 of them are going to be impact players, and Bertuzzi, Natasiuk, and Svechnikov all go into the dirty areas.
I don't think Abdelkader puts up a season like last year more than one more time. Which was already anomalous. 10 goals in one month with an insane shooting percentage...
Pavels Dog
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Talking about next year though. And drafting isn't an exact science. You can't just say "well let's draft a physical player with solid defensive abilities and capacity to score 20+ goals". Why let a guy like Abby go when he's finally taken the next step in his career? It's not like the choice is Abby or Hossa. The choice is Abby or.. ?
So re-sign Abby and trade him when we see if Bert and/or Svechnikov can replace what he brings. Nastasiuk? I doubt he ever becomes half of what Abby is.
And if Abby has a weaker year, he won't cost 4 mil.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
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Yeah, unfortunately when I tried to project our roster over the next 2 seasons I came to the same conclusion. I've grown to like Abdelkader and I respect the hell out of his compete level. But we have a huge log jam coming and this next wave is pretty good. Larkin is already ahead of schedule, and I think Athanasiou is too now. Mantha gets back on track and Bertuzzi picks up where he ended last year, and we will just be absolutely overflowing at forward in no time.
WingedWheel1987
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Re-sign Abby and trade him?
We all know if Gator is brought back, he is never leaving Detroit. He will be the new Dan Cleary.
We all know if Gator is brought back, he is never leaving Detroit. He will be the new Dan Cleary.
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