Armchair GMs: What moves would you make to maximize the roster?

[InjuredChoker]

That's entirely hindsight here. They knew nothing. They hoped and gambled on it and it worked out.

You're forgetting the team that didn't really win out (They still could though) and that's Philadelphia.

philly got the best player of the deal and stud young 3rd line C. jackets got the worst of it by far.

 

[Invictus12]

philly got the best player of the deal and stud young 3rd line C. jackets got the worst of it by far.

Voracek and Simmonds are certainly good players but that trade seemed to set them back for the time. It's starting to pay-off now, sure. Overall, I felt it was pointless on their end.

Columbus got Johnson out of the deal. They're certainly not the winners but, Carter trade separately for Johnson certainly helped them more than it hurt. Carter just didn't seem to work out as I recall.

 

[Mijatovic]

We have such a major log-jam on both back and front ends. We have such middling bottom 3 defenceman. Its a pretty simple formula for me.

Trade away some of the extra weaker assets for picks. Use those picks + stronger assets to deliver at least a decent middle pairing defender.

Next year is going to be a laugh watching Holland scramble as he either loses 5 players to waivers or melts down and starts handing out prospects.

 

[YostisHome]

Waive Big Rig, Marchenko is better.... package a combo of Jurco/Pulky/Sproul.... even Mantha if the deal is right for a top 6 wing.

 

[Vladdy84]

Waive Big Rig, Marchenko is better.... package a combo of Jurco/Pulky/Sproul.... even Mantha if the deal is right for a top 6 wing.

Big E is never going anywhere. And he would fetch a 2nd or 3rd rounder on the trade market.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Waive Big Rig, Marchenko is better.... package a combo of Jurco/Pulky/Sproul.... even Mantha if the deal is right for a top 6 wing.

Why we don't need another top 6 winger, If we're going to move those players in a package deal it would be for an upgrade on D maybe for a right handed #2 Dman something like Byfuglien or Shattenkirk if made available something like that.

 

[jkutswings]

Not sure if you mean #2 as in the second best guy on the top pairing, or a second pairing player, but Shattenkirk would be a 1A on this roster.

 

[FireBird71]

Holland won't be making any big trades before the season starts and he sure as hell won't be giving up Mantha..especially for somebody like Shattenkirk

 

[WingedWheel1987]

How can you not trade Mantha for a 26 year old defenseman who already has three 40+ point season's? Including last season where he put up 44 points in 56 games.

Wings have plenty of forward/wing prospects. There simply isn't enough room for all of them, and Holland will either have to make a trade or lose them for nothing.

If you believe Holland's defense by committee approach is tenable, Shattenkirk would be a great player to trade for.

 

[The Zermanator]

I trade Tatar or Nyquist before Mantha. Not only does Mantha stand a very good chance at being the better player in the long run, he has much less trade value right now.

And with Mantha, Athanasiou, Pulkkinen, Bertuzzi, Jurco, etc., one of Tatar and Nyquist are expendable. I think one of them should be moved as the main piece in a package for a top tier defenseman.

One of Tatar/Nyquist (Can use kids to make up the difference)
One of Sproul/Marchenko (With the acquired D, plus Ouellet/Jensen waiting in the wings this loss wouldn't be felt at all)
One of Jurco/Pulkkinen (Again, with so much quality forward depth this loss likely wouldn't be felt much at all)
One of Svechnikov/Sheahan (Larkin, possibly Athanasiou, Holmstrom, plus whichever of Sheahan/Svechnikov isn't traded leaves us with plenty of centre depth down the road.
1st

A package like that would have to be enough to bring in a top-tier defensive talent. Shattenkirk, Ekman-Larsson, etc. Could possibly even try to pry Jones out of Nashville. They have tons of high-quality D but could use some high-quality forwards which we have in abundance.

 

[Shaman464]

I trade Tatar or Nyquist before Mantha. Not only does Mantha stand a very good chance at being the better player in the long run, he has much less trade value right now.

And with Mantha, Athanasiou, Pulkkinen, Bertuzzi, Jurco, etc., one of Tatar and Nyquist are expendable. I think one of them should be moved as the main piece in a package for a top tier defenseman.

One of Tatar/Nyquist (Can use kids to make up the difference)
One of Sproul/Marchenko (With the acquired D, plus Ouellet/Jensen waiting in the wings this loss wouldn't be felt at all)
One of Jurco/Pulkkinen (Again, with so much quality forward depth this loss likely wouldn't be felt much at all)
One of Svechnikov/Sheahan (Larkin, possibly Athanasiou, Holmstrom, plus whichever of Sheahan/Svechnikov isn't traded leaves us with plenty of centre depth down the road.
1st

A package like that would have to be enough to bring in a top-tier defensive talent. Shattenkirk, Ekman-Larsson, etc. Could possibly even try to pry Jones out of Nashville. They have tons of high-quality D but could use some high-quality forwards which we have in abundance.

Mantha or AA would go before Svechnikov, Svech is a much more dynamic player and doesn't come with the same baggage.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Voracek and Simmonds are certainly good players but that trade seemed to set them back for the time. It's starting to pay-off now, sure. Overall, I felt it was pointless on their end.

Columbus got Johnson out of the deal. They're certainly not the winners but, Carter trade separately for Johnson certainly helped them more than it hurt. Carter just didn't seem to work out as I recall.

Richards and Carter are and were worse than the collection of Schenn, Couturier, Voracek, and Simmonds.

While both the Kings and Flyers won their trades, the Flyers woes have nothing to do with those trades, their woes are due to Paul Holmgrem's contracts.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

If I were running this team, I'd either trade Abdelkader and/or Helm at the deadline, or more likely, let at least one of them walk in July. I'd also either trade Quincey now or let him walk as well. I'd also probably try to package Nyquist/Tatar with other offensive pieces for some kind of legitimate defensive upgrade. That creates roster space in the future, lowers the net cap, allows at least one of Ouellet/Jensen/Marchenko a spot on the blue line, gives us an upgrade on defense with whomever we trade, and frees up spots some combination of Larkin/Mantha/AA/Bertuzzi/Jurco/Pulkkinen(whomever is not traded in the hypothetical Nyquist/Tatar + trade) for next year.

 

[Invictus12]

Richards and Carter are and were worse than the collection of Schenn, Couturier, Voracek, and Simmonds.

While both the Kings and Flyers won their trades, the Flyers woes have nothing to do with those trades, their woes are due to Paul Holmgrem's contracts.

I think you're seriously forgetting, don't know, or simply ignoring of who and what Richards and Carter were as players when those deals took place. Couturier was also a pick at the, so that's entirely retrospect argument there. They picked successfully but that takes time to fully discover. Voracek just hit his strides these past two seasons. Couturier still has alot to prove. (He's looking great though)

At the time, they had quite a few players hitting their strides in like Giroux, Hartnell. They traded two very experienced and very good players for those that were still very much developing. In retrospect, I'd say they prolonged their teams offensive ability but they also effectively killed their hopes at being possibly a team that could have competed for a cup. Again, at the time, with the actual line-up that they had, Carter and Richards would have been a much better bet at getting you the cup than Simmonds, Voracek, Shenn and a 1st round pick.

I will correlate this also with this idea that we should trade away Helm and Abdelkader for picks now so that we don't lose them for nothing. First, I'll go and say that Abdelkader is very much needed player on this roster. I will once again refer to last years Tampa series. We were being pushed around and physically dominated up until him and Smith were back in the line-up. Some folks here don't get that having talent and offensive skill isn't much help when the opposing team uses you like their personal rag-doll. So I'm against losing Abdelkader altogether. With Helm, I'd rather we lose the guy come free agency than getting a third or something at the deadline. He's excellent at what he does. He provides speed, excellent forecheck, and one of our better penalty killers. We are a better team with him than without him and going into playoffs, I rather have him as an option.

As far Flyers woes goes, I'd probably put most of it on losing Pronger.

 

[Actual Thought*]

If I were running this team, I'd either trade Abdelkader and/or Helm at the deadline, or more likely, let at least one of them walk in July. I'd also either trade Quincey now or let him walk as well. I'd also probably try to package Nyquist/Tatar with other offensive pieces for some kind of legitimate defensive upgrade. That creates roster space in the future, lowers the net cap, allows at least one of Ouellet/Jensen/Marchenko a spot on the blue line, gives us an upgrade on defense with whomever we trade, and frees up spots some combination of Larkin/Mantha/AA/Bertuzzi/Jurco/Pulkkinen(whomever is not traded in the hypothetical Nyquist/Tatar + trade) for next year.

I think it is way too early to make those decisions. You don't know what position the team is going to be in coming up to the deadline. You don't know what the health of the team is going to be coming in to the deadline. Regardless if you make those moves you are conceding that we aren't interested in winning now. I don't think the team sees themselves that way. I would rather lose Abby and Helm as FAs after a cup run then get a couple of picks and not make the playoffs. This roster was competitive in the playoffs and is improved with the addition of Green and Richards plus probably Larkin in the playoffs. I would expect they will be adding at the deadline but you need to see where you are. With DDK and Pav out to start the season they might be out of it quickly at which point you make decisions regarding UFAs accordingly.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Holland won't be making any big trades before the season starts and he sure as hell won't be giving up Mantha..especially for somebody like Shattenkirk

There was talk that Holland was willing to move Mantha and the 1st at this years draft for the right deal, But obviously the right deal didn't come along.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Not sure if you mean #2 as in the second best guy on the top pairing, or a second pairing player, but Shattenkirk would be a 1A on this roster.

Yeah I mean a solid #2 Dman I agree that Shattenkirk would be our 1A, Neither Kronwall or Ericsson are true #1 and #2 either one of Byfuglien or Shattenkirk would give us a solid 1st and 2nd pairing. OEL, Justin Faulk would be nice even Jones but most likely they would cost us far to much. Probably even Shattenkirk might cost us more then what we want to part with. But we still need a #2 Dman.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Yeah I mean a solid #2 Dman I agree that Shattenkirk would be our 1A, Neither Kronwall or Ericsson are true #1 and #2 either one of Byfuglien or Shattenkirk would give us a solid 1st and 2nd pairing. OEL, Justin Faulk would be nice even Jones but most likely they would cost us far to much. Probably even Shattenkirk might cost us then what we want to part with. But we still need a #2 Dman.

Sure it would be nice to upgrade E but if he is healthy he is fine. It would be more of a luxury that a necessity.

 

[jkutswings]

I think it is way too early to make those decisions. You don't know what position the team is going to be in coming up to the deadline. You don't know what the health of the team is going to be coming in to the deadline. Regardless if you make those moves you are conceding that we aren't interested in winning now. I don't think the team sees themselves that way. I would rather lose Abby and Helm as FAs after a cup run then get a couple of picks and not make the playoffs. This roster was competitive in the playoffs and is improved with the addition of Green and Richards plus probably Larkin in the playoffs. I would expect they will be adding at the deadline but you need to see where you are. With DDK and Pav out to start the season they might be out of it quickly at which point you make decisions regarding UFAs accordingly.

100% disagree.

While Abs and Helm are nice players, both are due to be (and very likely will be) overpaid in their next contacts. Detroit is making strides, but isn't even in the same tier as the Cup contenders yet, so the smart play is to get something for guys who shouldn't be in the long-term plans, as opposed to either letting them walk for free, or overpaying for guys that aren't as important as the NEXT Helm or Abdelkader, since THEY'LL be the ones who will fill those roles when the roster is finally ready to contend.

EDIT: Keep in mind, both players will turn 29 this season. That means they're really banking on landing that last big 3-5 year contract, before they tail off into their final playing years. I could see somebody paying Helm close to $4M per year, and Abdelkader close to $5M, and neither number makes sense for where the Wings are, versus where they're heading.

 

[Invictus12]

100% disagree.

While Abs and Helm are nice players, both are due to be (and very likely will be) overpaid in their next contacts. Detroit is making strides, but isn't even in the same tier as the Cup contenders yet, so the smart play is to get something for guys who shouldn't be in the long-term plans, as opposed to either letting them walk for free, or overpaying for guys that aren't as important as the NEXT Helm or Abdelkader, since THEY'LL be the ones who will fill those roles when the roster is finally ready to contend.

EDIT: Keep in mind, both players will turn 29 this season. That means they're really banking on landing that last big 3-5 year contract, before they tail off into their final playing years. I could see somebody paying Helm close to $4M per year, and Abdelkader close to $5M, and neither number makes sense for where the Wings are, versus where they're heading.

What you mean here is that they're due for a raise according to what they actually bring but you're wording it i a way to suit your personal preference. Helm provides a strong forecheck, penalty killing and overall defensive play. Abdelkader is a pretty good with screens, one of the few guys who likes to throw his body around. Those jobs might not be as eye appealing as what we have in some guys waiting for their shot but someone has to do that work regardless. Who do you propose will fill that void here? I can see letting go of Helm. I think it would be a really bad decision to let go of Abdelkader.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

What you mean here is that they're due for a raise according to what they actually bring but you're wording it i a way to suit your personal preference. Helm provides a strong forecheck, penalty killing and overall defensive play. Abdelkader is a pretty good with screens, one of the few guys who likes to throw his body around. Those jobs might not be as eye appealing as what we have in some guys waiting for their shot but someone has to do that work regardless. Who do you propose will fill that void here? I can see letting go of Helm. I think it would be a really bad decision to let go of Abdelkader.

Helm at 4M would be overpaid. Especially since we have a Helm analogue in Athanasiou in the system.

Abby, on the other hand, we need to keep. There isn't another guy on the roster now or coming up in the system with his combination of skills, size, and grit.

 

[Invictus12]

Helm at 4M would be overpaid. Especially since we have a Helm analogue in Athanasiou in the system.

Abby, on the other hand, we need to keep. There isn't another guy on the roster now or coming up in the system with his combination of skills, size, and grit.

I agree that he'll be overpaid but I doubt he gets that money. I think at most, he'll get about 3 mil. Maybe a little less if he signs a long-term contract.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I think you're seriously forgetting, don't know, or simply ignoring of who and what Richards and Carter were as players when those deals took place. Couturier was also a pick at the, so that's entirely retrospect argument there. They picked successfully but that takes time to fully discover. Voracek just hit his strides these past two seasons. Couturier still has alot to prove. (He's looking great though)

I live in Philadelphia and have since 2007. No, I know exactly what players Jeff Carter and Mike Richards were and are.

At the time, they had quite a few players hitting their strides in like Giroux, Hartnell. They traded two very experienced and very good players for those that were still very much developing. In retrospect, I'd say they prolonged their teams offensive ability but they also effectively killed their hopes at being possibly a team that could have competed for a cup. Again, at the time, with the actual line-up that they had, Carter and Richards would have been a much better bet at getting you the cup than Simmonds, Voracek, Shenn and a 1st round pick.

Giroux was third in Hart voting that following season and they made the playoffs and went to the second round...

I will correlate this also with this idea that we should trade away Helm and Abdelkader for picks now so that we don't lose them for nothing. First, I'll go and say that Abdelkader is very much needed player on this roster. I will once again refer to last years Tampa series. We were being pushed around and physically dominated up until him and Smith were back in the line-up. Some folks here don't get that having talent and offensive skill isn't much help when the opposing team uses you like their personal rag-doll. So I'm against losing Abdelkader altogether. With Helm, I'd rather we lose the guy come free agency than getting a third or something at the deadline. He's excellent at what he does. He provides speed, excellent forecheck, and one of our better penalty killers. We are a better team with him than without him and going into playoffs, I rather have him as an option.

As far Flyers woes goes, I'd probably put most of it on losing Pronger.

Losing Pronger was huge, and still is. But look at the contracts they have on their books: MacDonald, Lecavalier, Luke Schenn(who was traded for JVR!)

The trade was win win, Simmonds and Schenn have been great in exchange for Richards who was already declining. Voracek for Carter is a wash, throw in Couturier, who's only 22 and still developing and already a great third line center?

Philadelphia definitely wins those trades too. It was a win, win. Only team who lost was Columbus. Carter was ass for them and Johnson IS ass.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I think it is way too early to make those decisions. You don't know what position the team is going to be in coming up to the deadline. You don't know what the health of the team is going to be coming in to the deadline. Regardless if you make those moves you are conceding that we aren't interested in winning now. I don't think the team sees themselves that way. I would rather lose Abby and Helm as FAs after a cup run then get a couple of picks and not make the playoffs. This roster was competitive in the playoffs and is improved with the addition of Green and Richards plus probably Larkin in the playoffs. I would expect they will be adding at the deadline but you need to see where you are. With DDK and Pav out to start the season they might be out of it quickly at which point you make decisions regarding UFAs accordingly.

That is why I said more likely in July, so.

 

[Invictus12]

Giroux was third in Hart voting that following season and they made the playoffs and went to the second round...

My point exactly! That year, Carter and Richards would probably have been better help going for the cup than Simmonds, Shenn and Voracek. Simmonds really stepped up right at his arrival but both Shenn and Voracek were still very much in development phase.

Losing Pronger was huge, and still is. But look at the contracts they have on their books: MacDonald, Lecavalier, Luke Schenn(who was traded for JVR!)

The trade was win win, Simmonds and Schenn have been great in exchange for Richards who was already declining. Voracek for Carter is a wash, throw in Couturier, who's only 22 and still developing and already a great third line center?


Philadelphia definitely wins those trades too. It was a win, win. Only team who lost was Columbus. Carter was ass for them and Johnson IS ass.

Lacavalier, MacDonald, etc came later on I believe and their downfall started before that. Aging Timonen didn't help either.

While I do agree that Philadelphia now has some great pieces that came out of those trades, you forget the position the team was in at the time. They had a flush going into the season and they decided to re-shuffle the cards. Guess what? That flush might not come again, even with the pieces they now have.

Once again, I agree that Columbus lost the trade, they also didn't lose it in terms of who they traded for. They wanted someone who was more of a sure thing and they traded for Carter. The fact that Carter despised the trade isn't as much on them. Johnson as an ass surely addressed a bigger need than Carter as an ass. So in that trade, I'd say it was a win-win for both LA and Columbus.


The whole point and the root of this conversation is that some folks don't see the philosophy of not making rash moves. (This is where Philadelphia came into question) They make comparisons with what LA did, mostly in desperation as they barely squeezed in to a playoff spot when getting Carter as some sort of a move of genius. Given how Carter played that year in Columbus, it was more of a gamble that paid off. While on the other hand, Philadelphia very much gave up a very potent roster for long-term security....