Arizona Coyotes Lounge XXV

[Coyotedroppings]

You are correct, but the NHLPA and the NHL changed all that. The NHL is a physical sport with a high potential of injury with all the players being employees of the club, you have to do the best to protect them from injury and protect yourself from lawsuits in this crazy world.


I didn't say it should be.

Of course I’m correct Jakey and I didn’t say you weren’t.
Are you blonde?

 

[cobra427]

Because athletes get comfortable with their kit and don't want to change.

In 2001, Dale Earnhardt didn't want to wear a full-face helmet or wear a HANS (head and neck restraint) device, even after there was an avalanche of evidence that both would significantly reduce the odds of serious injury or death in a NASCAR crash. He paid for it with his life. They became mandatory within a year.

In the NHL, there are still players who won't wear face shields. They're grandfathered in because the league doesn't want to be unpopular or mess with their manly ethos. Even with the face shields on, the players adjust them so that they're useless - look at Connor Bedard, who has his pushed up onto his helmet like a pair of douchebro sunglasses.

Neck protection exists, as do ear guards on the helmets, skate guards, and face cages to deflect pucks. The players don't wear any of that stuff as a rule, because they don't want to look like p***yes to their peers.

Can't fix dumb.

Dale used to loosen up his harness on long yellows too.

 

[Sinurgy]

Obviously I don’t know what he was thinking, but Instant regret and massive amounts of fear and anxiety is real. “What have I done?!?” is real. If you watch the video (it’s horrific so I don’t recommend it) you’ll see a him make a choice to kick Johnson. I don’t think he thought it through.

That's fair, could easily be one of those instances where one guy is hoping to hurt the other but not actually injure him. Kinda of how when a player throws a massive hit on another player, I think the desire there is the they get rocked, gently skate back to the bench and miss a few shifts getting the cobwes out and then go back out on the ice a little timid because of the hit. They don't actually want to injure someone. It's a fine line though, that mentality can easily go too far and have very real consequences.

I'm reminded of Bertuzzi/Moore incident, I firmly believe Bertuzzi was trying to put some serious pain on Moore, he wanted to rough him up to say the least. Did he actually want to cause him a neck injury and end his career, no I don't believe that at all but intent or not, that's what happened. Also the McSorely/Brashear incident, the former was definitely being a dick and hoping to ring Brashears bell with that stick swing but I don't at all believe he wanted much less expected Brashear to collapse to the ice convulsing. As you alluded, a very "oh f***, what have I done?!?!" moment.

Perhaps that is what happened here (I still have not watched the video), the player swung his foot thinking he was going to ring Johnson's bell with a kick to the head but instead delievered a lethal cut to the throat. If that is the case, I would expect an involuntary manslaughter type charge to occur because while I highly doubt he intended to even cut Johnson's neck let alone kill him, the end result was still the loss of life.

 

[Foggy1097]

That's fair, could easily be one of those instances where one guy is hoping to hurt the other but not actually injure him. Kinda of how when a player throws a massive hit on another player, I think the desire there is the they get rocked, gently skate back to the bench and miss a few shifts getting the cobwes out and then go back out on the ice a little timid because of the hit. They don't actually want to injure someone. It's a fine line though, that mentality can easily go too far and have very real consequences.

I'm reminded of Bertuzzi/Moore incident, I firmly believe Bertuzzi was trying to put some serious pain on Moore, he wanted to rough him up to say the least. Did he actually want to cause him a neck injury and end his career, no I don't believe that at all but intent or not, that's what happened. Also the McSorely/Brashear incident, the former was definitely being a dick and hoping to ring Brashears bell with that stick swing but I don't at all believe he wanted much less expected Brashear to collapse to the ice convulsing. As you alluded, a very "oh f***, what have I done?!?!" moment.

Perhaps that is what happened here (I still have not watched the video), the player swung his foot thinking he was going to ring Johnson's bell with a kick to the head but instead delievered a lethal cut to the throat. If that is the case, I would expect an involuntary manslaughter type charge to occur because while I highly doubt he intended to even cut Johnson's neck let alone kill him, the end result was still the loss of life.

So you all know when you see a really brutal knee on knee hit right? Where the guy can’t make a normal body check but says, “f*ck it, I’m going to make contact at all costs I don’t care how I’m just going to make some contact…” and he sticks his knee out at the guy. I think that’s essentially what this was…only an elevated knee. He realized in a split second that he wasn’t going to be able to make normal body contact, and flung his leg out sideways at the guy in a desperate attempt to make some contact. That’s my opinion anyway. I am honestly torn on whether or not he should receive charges…it should be up to the family probably. He didn’t intend to end this guy’s life, but because of his reckless impulsive actions that’s exactly what he did.

 

[rt]

That's fair, could easily be one of those instances where one guy is hoping to hurt the other but not actually injure him. Kinda of how when a player throws a massive hit on another player, I think the desire there is the they get rocked, gently skate back to the bench and miss a few shifts getting the cobwes out and then go back out on the ice a little timid because of the hit. They don't actually want to injure someone. It's a fine line though, that mentality can easily go too far and have very real consequences.

I'm reminded of Bertuzzi/Moore incident, I firmly believe Bertuzzi was trying to put some serious pain on Moore, he wanted to rough him up to say the least. Did he actually want to cause him a neck injury and end his career, no I don't believe that at all but intent or not, that's what happened. Also the McSorely/Brashear incident, the former was definitely being a dick and hoping to ring Brashears bell with that stick swing but I don't at all believe he wanted much less expected Brashear to collapse to the ice convulsing. As you alluded, a very "oh f***, what have I done?!?!" moment.

Perhaps that is what happened here (I still have not watched the video), the player swung his foot thinking he was going to ring Johnson's bell with a kick to the head but instead delievered a lethal cut to the throat. If that is the case, I would expect an involuntary manslaughter type charge to occur because while I highly doubt he intended to even cut Johnson's neck let alone kill him, the end result was still the loss of life.

He might’ve been trying to ring his bell with a kick to the head, rather than seriously injure or kill him. You could be even more forgiving and say he missed his check and was flinging his foot up to try to just catch a piece of him so it wasn’t a total whiff. May not have been anger. Just stupidity. But he most definitely kicked up at him intentionally. Anyone who says otherwise is seeing what they want to see or is mentally challenged. Whether he made a choice to kick him is indisputable to me. Why he did that or what he was hoping to accomplish in so doing I can’t even guess.

 

[rt]

So you all know when you see a really brutal knee on knee hit right? Where the guy can’t make a normal body check but says, “f*ck it, I’m going to make contact at all costs I don’t care how I’m just going to make some contact…” and he sticks his knee out at the guy. I think that’s essentially what this was…only an elevated knee. He realized in a split second that he wasn’t going to be able to make normal body contact, and flung his leg out sideways at the guy in a desperate attempt to make some contact. That’s my opinion anyway. I am honestly torn on whether or not he should receive charges…it should be up to the family probably. He didn’t intend to end this guy’s life, but because of his reckless impulsive actions that’s exactly what he did.

Look at that. We were typing similar responses at the same time. I’m less convinced than you are that there was no malice in this. If a guy was trying to kill someone he hated with a flying MMA style skate kick to the neck, if they’d trained for it and thought about it every day for years, it wouldn’t have looked one bit different than this looked.

I’d say there’s a very good chance your theory is correct. I might even say your theory is the most likely and bordering on just plain likely.

 

[Sinurgy]

So you all know when you see a really brutal knee on knee hit right? Where the guy can’t make a normal body check but says, “f*ck it, I’m going to make contact at all costs I don’t care how I’m just going to make some contact…” and he sticks his knee out at the guy. I think that’s essentially what this was…only an elevated knee. He realized in a split second that he wasn’t going to be able to make normal body contact, and flung his leg out sideways at the guy in a desperate attempt to make some contact. That’s my opinion anyway. I am honestly torn on whether or not he should receive charges…it should be up to the family probably. He didn’t intend to end this guy’s life, but because of his reckless impulsive actions that’s exactly what he did.

Yes exactly, that intent to hit with malice for sure but to cause pain not actually seriously injure let alone kill someone.

 

[Foggy1097]

Look at that. We were typing similar responses at the same time. I’m less convinced than you are that there was no malice in this. If a guy was trying to kill someone he hated with a flying MMA style skate kick to the neck, if they’d trained for it and thought about it every day for years, it wouldn’t have looked one bit different than this looked.

I’d say there’s a very good chance your theory is correct. I might even say your theory is the most likely and bordering on just plain likely.

Oh I definitely think there was some malice there…”I’m going to kill you type malice?” I think that’s far fetched. When you look at his history it looks worse for him. I just think his brain literally switched off and he was on a kamikaze mission to make contact with this guy.

What’s really puzzling is the spectrum of people’s psychology with this thing. When Dustin Brown would knee someone what would the response be? “Fight him!” “What a cheap shot, you’re garbage Brown!” And that was all expected and normal and whatever….with this…people are literally acting like the online trolls giving this guy a hard time are committing worse acts than what this guy did. I get having empathy and of course I’m sure the guy feels terrible. But that’s ok, HE SHOULD FEEL TERRIBLE…at least for a little while. When your recklessness costs someone their LIFE, yes you should feel bad and expect people to be angry with you and lob insults at you. I guess he already feels bad probably and people don’t need to pile on and make it worse, but people trying to make this guy a victim because of it is crazy to me. And then there’s the “a black player killed a white player intentionally!” people…wild stuff man. The internet is a wild place.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

Yeah, the people turning this into a race thing are disgusting. Looks like an anger management issue more than a racial one to me.

 

[Sinurgy]

Look at that. We were typing similar responses at the same time. I’m less convinced than you are that there was no malice in this. If a guy was trying to kill someone he hated with a flying MMA style skate kick to the neck, if they’d trained for it and thought about it every day for years, it wouldn’t have looked one bit different than this looked.

I’d say there’s a very good chance your theory is correct. I might even say your theory is the most likely and bordering on just plain likely.

I finally watched the video** and it looks like he was trying to force some sort of hit no matter what it took. The lifting of the leg was just weird. I'm not convinced he was literally attempting a kick to the throat but yeah it doesn't look like that was mere body collision physics at work either. It's hard to tell though because the other player cutting in front of him kind clips his foot and then up comes the leg. I don't know, it's a very unusual play and the video isn't detailed enough to clearly see what happened. I wouldn't be shocked to see manslaughter, or whatever the equivalent would be in England, charges brought against him but I also wouldn't be surprised if they did not press charges either.

**For those on the fence, I wouldn't watch it not because it's overly shocking or anything (sadly by internet standards it's very tame) but because it's profoundly sad knowing the outcome.

 

[rt]

Yeah, the people turning this into a race thing are disgusting. Looks like an anger management issue more than a racial one to me.

So bizarre. What could race possibly matter in this?

 

[Foggy1097]

So bizarre. What could race possibly matter in this?

Social media grifters.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

So bizarre. What could race possibly matter in this?

Sadly, I think some people like to scream reverse racism every chance they get to dilute the realities of white on black racism. Like they're keeping a tally or something to rationalize or even normalize racism in general.

Just a theory.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Sadly, I think some people like to scream reverse racism every chance they get to dilute the realities of white on black racism. Like they're keeping a tally or something to rationalize or even normalize racism in general.

Just a theory.

the general term of what you see is 'whataboutism', and yes there is a lot more of it the last 3-8 years

 

[Foggy1097]

Sadly, I think some people like to scream reverse racism every chance they get to dilute the realities of white on black racism. Like they're keeping a tally or something to rationalize or even normalize racism in general.

Just a theory.

I don’t even think it’s that…just purely attention seeking engagement farming garbage.

 

[Sinurgy]

The internet is a wild place.

Yeah, the people turning this into a race thing are disgusting. Looks like an anger management issue more than a racial one to me.

So bizarre. What could race possibly matter in this?

the general term of what you see is 'whataboutism', and yes there is a lot more of it the last 3-8 years

I don’t even think it’s that…just purely attention seeking engagement farming garbage.

Never read or react to the comments whether that be YouTube, Twitter, social media platforms, etc. That's where the loud and pompous ply their craft. Reminds me of that famous Nietzsche quote:

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Fredrick Nietzche

 

[Foggy1097]

I’ve gone down the rabbit hole just because it was such a crazy thing to witness, but I’m ready to move on from it. In the end, I liken it to something like a death from a reckless driving situation. Were you trying to end someone’s life on purpose? No. But you were doing 120 mph in a 45 mph zone…you were reckless beyond belief, and that caused a tragic accident to happen. Face accountability from yourself and your community, and then grace and forgiveness can be offered to you, and everyone involved can try to move on and have some shred of peace when it’s all said and done.

 

[Foggy1097]

Didn’t seek this out but it popped up on my feed…pretty interesting find. Nice little backwards roundhouse kick that would make Dustin Brown blush…

 

[Sinurgy]

Didn’t seek this out but it popped up on my feed…pretty interesting find. Nice little backwards roundhouse kick that would make Dustin Brown blush…

The outrage algorithms have you pegged.

 

[Foggy1097]

The outrage algorithms have you pegged.

Haha probably. I try not to feed the beast too much. My kids produce all the outrage I can handle already…I don’t have enough energy to deal with much more.

 

[rt]

Just got a shoutout on the PHNX pod. Crazy thing last night. Was trick or treating with my kids and Craig Morgan answers one of the doors. Turns out he lives like six doors down from my mom. Small world.

 

[Schemp]

Just got a shoutout on the PHNX pod. Crazy thing last night. Was trick or treating with my kids and Craig Morgan answers one of the doors. Turns out he lives like six doors down from my mom. Small world.

It was a trick...

 

[Jakey53]

Just got a shoutout on the PHNX pod. Crazy thing last night. Was trick or treating with my kids and Craig Morgan answers one of the doors. Turns out he lives like six doors down from my mom. Small world.

You are damn lucky he doesn't live with your mom.

 

[rt]

You are damn lucky he doesn't live with your mom.

She’s even older than you Jake! Haha.

 

[Jakey53]

She’s even older than you Jake! Haha.

And I bet a wise and smart old lady.