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Yeah, guys I’m not talking about enforcing anything on anyone. Just some basic common sense. I don’t care what people want to think or believe about Christianity or Judaism, or Buddhism or whatever it is, let’s just look at the symbolism for a second. What are we saying is acceptable publicly? Where are we drawing a line, or is there no line and it’s a free for all shit show? At the core of Judeo-Christian values there is the symbolism of standing for good and what is right. The art relating to it is universally accepted as beautiful and pleasing to people. It makes people feel good. Satanism is grotesque, ugly, and symbolizes evil. People are honestly ok walking around having to look at that garbage? People want clean streets. They don’t want to live in filth. They want to feel good in their public places. Why allow something that almost universally creates a sense of unease for most of the public? Maybe 0.01% of the public want to see that, so you’re going to force it on the 99% that don’t want to see it in their public space? Common sense guys. You want to rent a conference room at the Hilton and have a Satan party…sure go ahead. Common. Sense.

What people view and consume consistently does affect them, whether they realize it or not. The music, tv, movies, video games, whatever it is, does affect you. I think everything in moderation is generally fine, but what people consume consistently can and does seep into their subconscious mind and can alter their moods. As an example, people that work in beautiful buildings or are in view of nature or a picturesque setting generally feel better coming to work, feel better at work, and are happier. People that go to work in a grotesque grey box with no windows generally dread coming to work, and feel bad while there. These types of things affect people. Can’t we just agree that in public places we should be catering to the 99.9% instead of the 0.01%?
 
That doesn't mean such speech should be illegal. You need to be careful in limiting other people's freedoms lest your own freedom be limited as well.
Agree entirely.
And even if someone does foolishly accept more limits on their own freedom of expression, that doesn't make it ok to impose limits on others freedoms.
 
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Yeah, guys I’m not talking about enforcing anything on anyone. Just some basic common sense. I don’t care what people want to think or believe about Christianity or Judaism, or Buddhism or whatever it is, let’s just look at the symbolism for a second. What are we saying is acceptable publicly? Where are we drawing a line, or is there no line and it’s a free for all shit show? At the core of Judeo-Christian values there is the symbolism of standing for good and what is right. The art relating to it is universally accepted as beautiful and pleasing to people. It makes people feel good. Satanism is grotesque, ugly, and symbolizes evil. People are honestly ok walking around having to look at that garbage? People want clean streets. They don’t want to live in filth. They want to feel good in their public places. Why allow something that almost universally creates a sense of unease for most of the public? Maybe 0.01% of the public want to see that, so you’re going to force it on the 99% that don’t want to see it in their public space? Common sense guys. You want to rent a conference room at the Hilton and have a Satan party…sure go ahead. Common. Sense.

What people view and consume consistently does affect them, whether they realize it or not. The music, tv, movies, video games, whatever it is, does affect you. I think everything in moderation is generally fine, but what people consume consistently can and does seep into their subconscious mind and can alter their moods. As an example, people that work in beautiful buildings or are in view of nature or a picturesque setting generally feel better coming to work, feel better at work, and are happier. People that go to work in a grotesque grey box with no windows generally dread coming to work, and feel bad while there. These types of things affect people. Can’t we just agree that in public places we should be catering to the 99.9% instead of the 0.01%?

Out of sheer curiosity, have you ever looked at the basic tenets of belief of the Satanic Temple, or seen their mission statement?

Here they are:

The Mission Of The Satanic Temple Is To Encourage Benevolence And Empathy, Reject Tyrannical Authority, Advocate Practical Common Sense, Oppose Injustice, And Undertake Noble Pursuits.

There are Seven FUNDAMENTAL TENETS​

I
One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.

II
The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.

III
One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.

IV
The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.

V
Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.

VI
People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.

VII
Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

Now, I didn't post these because I'm a member of the Satanic Temple. Hell, I spent almost half my life as an extremely arch-conservative Mormon, so I had as many - or more - prejudices against even the concept of "Satan" as you do. I didn't even bother to look this up until I quit myself of the church. You can imagine my surprise.

You might say, "Well, this doesn't look too awful, but the majority of Satanists are evil, howling, bloodthirsty abomination-lovers." Well, we could go down that generalization road with Christians, Muslims, Jews, Zoroastrians, or what have you.

You know, the bottom line is this - take people on their own merits. Stop painting everyone with a broad brush. And - most importantly - realize that your experience, your baselines for morality, ethics, aesthetics, belief, and etc. will not necessarily reflect a shared general experience. There is a lot in this world that makes me uneasy, but my discomfort with it doesn't mean its evil unless it's actively harming others.
 
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You know, the bottom line is this - take people on their own merits. Stop painting everyone with a broad brush. And - most importantly - realize that your experience, your baselines for morality, ethics, aesthetics, belief, and etc. will not necessarily reflect a shared general experience. There is a lot in this world that makes me uneasy, but my discomfort with it doesn't mean its evil unless it's actively harming others.
Fair enough Feck, fair enough. I agree with this and I do live this out. I can be guilty of generalizing when talking about things conceptually like we have been, but in real day to day life I don’t paint with a broad brush and I genuinely do treat everyone and everything on a case by case basis. It’s the only way to do it imo. The one thing I feel the urge to pushback on is that the overwhelmingly majority of people, at least in this country, do have a bit of a shared general experience and can agree on a baseline set of morals, ethics, principles etc. It doesn’t necessarily have to align perfectly with any religion or church doctrine, but I think most regular everyday people can agree on these core things. My general point is that we have to draw lines in the sand sometimes to maintain order, decorum, and to keep people spirits up. If we decide we want to live in an anything goes society things can get pretty ugly, real fast. As we are seeing with certain things right now like not arresting shoplifters etc…
 
The one thing I feel the urge to pushback on is that the overwhelmingly majority of people, at least in this country, do have a bit of a shared general experience and can agree on a baseline set of morals, ethics, principles etc. It doesn’t necessarily have to align perfectly with any religion or church doctrine, but I think most regular everyday people can agree on these core things.

I think everyone - or most everyone - can agree with this: the most worthy effort humanity can undertake is the search for truth; the holiest maxim for humanity is to do no harm and love your neighbor as you love yourself; the noblest urge is to rush to help rather than stand back and watch.

Everything else either stems from these, or is just useless window dressing, IMO.
 
Now, I didn't post these because I'm a member of the Satanic Temple. Hell, I spent almost half my life as an extremely arch-conservative Mormon, so I had as many - or more - prejudices against even the concept of "Satan" as you do. I didn't even bother to look this up until I quit myself of the church. You can imagine my surprise.
It's pretty crazy isn't it, honestly one could easily argue those are some of the best tenets proposed by any existing religion. Granted the Satanic Temple isn't really a religion, it's really more of a philosophical movement/watch dog group but still I think most can agree society would be in a wonderful place if everyone followed those 7 tenets.

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Fair enough Feck, fair enough. I agree with this and I do live this out. I can be guilty of generalizing when talking about things conceptually like we have been, but in real day to day life I don’t paint with a broad brush and I genuinely do treat everyone and everything on a case by case basis. It’s the only way to do it imo. The one thing I feel the urge to pushback on is that the overwhelmingly majority of people, at least in this country, do have a bit of a shared general experience and can agree on a baseline set of morals, ethics, principles etc. It doesn’t necessarily have to align perfectly with any religion or church doctrine, but I think most regular everyday people can agree on these core things. My general point is that we have to draw lines in the sand sometimes to maintain order, decorum, and to keep people spirits up. If we decide we want to live in an anything goes society things can get pretty ugly, real fast. As we are seeing with certain things right now like not arresting shoplifters etc…
I'm curious, do you disagree with any of the 7 fundamental tenets of the Satanic Temple? I'm guessing you don't which is a pretty weird feeling isn't it!
 
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Granted the Satanic Temple isn't really a religion...

Understanding, of course, that it was established specifically to annoy fundamentalist Christians, it certainly is a religion... as is Pastafarianism, Scientology, etc. ad nauseum, because it's an organized entity espousing common beliefs around a singular item or personage of focus.

If you then say, "Well, according to that assessment, pretty much anything can be considered a religion," I'd respond, "You're almost there, keep going..." :D
 
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Understanding, of course, that it was established specifically to annoy fundamentalist Christians, it certainly is a religion... as is Pastafarianism, Scientology, etc. ad nauseum, because it's an organized entity espousing common beliefs around a singular item or personage of focus.

If you then say, "Well, according to that assessment, pretty much anything can be considered a religion," I'd respond, "You're almost there, keep going..." :D
Yes good point, instead of saying it's not really a religion I should clarify, what I mean is most Satanic Temple members don't actually believe in a satan much less worship it. "satan" is just a symbol, nothing more. In fact Baphomet, who I'm sure wasn't chosen on accident, is all about balance and harmony. Anyway your point is taken and all hail the flying spaghetti monster! haha
 
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I'm curious, do you disagree with any of the 7 fundamental tenets of the Satanic Temple? I'm guessing you don't which is a pretty weird feeling isn't it!
Other than number 5, no I don’t disagree. I love science, but it is always evolving and doesn’t always provide the answers. One’s life shouldn’t revolve or be built around science imo. Other than that yeah, I don’t disagree with the tenets. But like Feck said, I judge on a case by case basis and go more off of what people do and not what they say…
 
Other than number 5, no I don’t disagree. I love science, but it is always evolving and doesn’t always provide the answers. One’s life shouldn’t revolve or be built around science imo. Other than that yeah, I don’t disagree with the tenets. But like Feck said, I judge on a case by case basis and go more off of what people do and not what they say…
I think your views are actually pretty in line with #5, at least how I'm interpreting it anyway, but I get your point and generally I would say I agree.

On a side note, it's pretty hilarious that we have an ex-morman, an active christian, and an ex-christian discussing the virtues of the Satanic Temple. :biglaugh:
 
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Yes good point, instead of saying it's not really a religion I should clarify, what I mean is most Satanic Temple members don't actually believe in a satan much less worship it. "satan" is just a symbol, nothing more. In fact Baphomet, who I'm sure wasn't chosen on accident, is all about balance and harmony. Anyway your point is taken and all hail the flying spaghetti monster! haha

I see you've been touched by His Noodly Appendage... :D

Other than number 5, no I don’t disagree. I love science, but it is always evolving and doesn’t always provide the answers. One’s life shouldn’t revolve or be built around science imo.

It's true that science is always evolving, but to me that's a good thing. The strongest thing about science is that the scientific method takes a theory (belief) and subjects it to rigorous challenge - the goal is to try and prove it wrong, and something is only accepted as valid if they run out of ways to prove it false. But the process never ends (like you said) because, as time goes on, new methods, new information, etc. come to light that changes our understanding.

I've found that most religions do it backward - they take a theory (belief) and assume it to be true, and then go out looking for ways to prove it correct, rather than subject it to any sort of challenge. In fact, most of the larger religions actively destroy information that might call their beliefs into question - the Mormons did this about a decade ago, when their "historical researchers" outright destroyed primary sources (journals, articles, etc.) that challenged accepted faith tenets and justified it by saying, "We are trying to protect the good name of those involved." The ironic thing, of course, is that the early Mormon leaders said, "If we possess the truth, it should withstand all scrutiny, else it shall be proven to be a lie." But then, when scientific and other evidence cropped up, they changed their tune REALLY damn fast... :laugh:
 
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There are a minimum of rules needed to have a successful society. Past that, we run afoul. I think that the adage of "do and say as you please as long as you don't impinge on anyone else" is a good way to run a society.
 
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It's true that science is always evolving, but to me that's a good thing. The strongest thing about science is that the scientific method takes a theory (belief) and subjects it to rigorous challenge - the goal is to try and prove it wrong, and something is only accepted as valid if they run out of ways to prove it false.
Yes, exactly…except during Covid of course. 😂

There are a minimum of rules needed to have a successful society. Past that, we run afoul. I think that the adage of "do and say as you please as long as you don't impinge on anyone else" is a good way to run a society.
If more people sincerely believed this they would vote libertarian…but they get convinced voting uniparty is better instead. Ron Paul should have been President haha.
 
ESPECIALLY during COVID.
Of course, I hope the sarcasm came across there haha. Because that’s not how it went. Science was absolutely forbidden to be challenged so they could gain emergency use access for the vaccine that raked in record profits. Commonly understood things like natural immunity became conspiracy theories all of a sudden.
 
Of course, I hope the sarcasm came across there haha. Because that’s not how it went. Science was absolutely forbidden to be challenged so they could gain emergency use access for the vaccine that raked in record profits. Commonly understood things like natural immunity became conspiracy theories all of a sudden.

How utterly dispiriting it is that one of the greatest achievements in public health and epidemiology in human history is portrayed like this because people got tired of sitting at home.
 
How utterly dispiriting it is that one of the greatest achievements in public health and epidemiology in human history is portrayed like this because people got tired of sitting at home.
Scientific achievements aside…they buried valid treatment options like hydroxychloroquine and Nobel prize winning ivermectin to get emergency use access. They silenced dissent. People died unnecessarily because of it. Credible scientists and doctors worldwide were deplatoformed and their opinions were censored. Doesn’t sound like good faith science to me.
 
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How utterly dispiriting it is that one of the greatest achievements in public health and epidemiology in human history is portrayed like this because people got tired of sitting at home.
Right?

(also, in the bizarre hybrid-capitalist system that is US health care...it's only fitting that that achievement was well rewarded. but people forget that and cynically believe it wasn't deserved. *sigh* to quote the show "IT Crowd": "People - what a bunch o' bastards!")

also, someone forgot to throw the /s sign up there surely?
 

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