Arizona Coyotes Lounge XXV

[TheLegend]

Someone tell Marty Walsh how many owners do this for their players.....

 

[Sinurgy]

Yeah again, it seems like you’re speaking about preconceived notions you have developed or “things you’ve heard.” I don’t doubt that any of these things happen. Cliques can form. Things can be run or managed poorly. People are imperfect. You can’t expect perfection from any person, group or entity. There will be mistakes. But to take those human mistakes and then contort that into this idea that all churches are greedy, don’t do good for people and help people in the community, or make it seem like they are blatantly and purposefully engaged in shameful behavior…I think that’s just the wrong approach to take and sullies all of the good work they do actually accomplish. If you want to point out every negative and ignore the tons of positives I guess that’s your prerogative.

To be completely honest, I used to hold a lot of these same cynical opinions and preconceived notions about how churches operate. Some of them held kernels of truth, but ALL of them were based off of zero direct experience and engagement. Once I changed this and decided to experience for myself, drop my preconceived notions and participate, I have found the reality to be much different than what I believed it to be. Be the change you want to see in the world. Don’t kick something that’s meant for good into the dirt because of human imperfection.

I think feckless made a very good point to you earlier which you glossed over. You should take that level of skepticism you use to scrutinize the government and apply it to any mega church. If you were to do that I don't think it'd take long for that altruistic facade to fall away. They are opportunistic grifters taking advantage of the well meaning and the downtrodden alike. They may do some good here and there but that's their short game, their long game is power, influence, and money!

I am being the change I want to see in the world. I want people to realize church is not necessary, belief in a god is not necessary, and all religions are almost certainly made up by man. It's not real, there is no god one needs to worship, and most importantly....that is completely ok! You can live a very happy, rich, and fulfilling live without it. You can grow, you can move beyond, you can be god free. You don't need it, you don't need it at all!

 

[Foggy1097]

I think feckless made a very good point to you earlier which you glossed over. You should take that level of skepticism you use to scrutinize the government and apply it to any mega church. If you were to do that I don't think it'd take long for that altruistic facade to fall away. They are opportunistic grifters taking advantage of the well meaning and the downtrodden alike. They may do some good here and there but that's their short game, their long game is power, influence, and money!

I am being the change I want to see in the world. I want people to realize church is not necessary, belief in a god is not necessary, and all religions are almost certainly made up by man. It's not real, there is no god one needs worship, and that is most importantly....that is completely ok! You can live a very happy, rich, and fulfilling live without it. You can grow, you can move beyond, you can be god free. You don't need it, you don't need it at all!

All good brother, you do what works for you. I did respond to feckless and acknowledged his good points that I do partially agree with. I’m glad that you’re so headstrong and definitive in your beliefs about the nature of the universe. I have my own convictions but am also always trying to learn and examine different perspectives. I’m glad you’ve got it all figured out!

 

[MIGs Dog]

I want people to realize church is not necessary, belief in a god is not necessary, and all religions are almost certainly made up by man.

Why do you care what others believe? Certainly much evil has been done in the name of religion, but so has a lot of good. If spirituality and the belief in a higher power helps people achieve peace of mind, I'd argue religion is a net benefit to society.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I am being the change I want to see in the world. I want people to realize church is not necessary, belief in a god is not necessary, and all importantly....that is completely ok! You can live a very happy, rich, and fulfilling live without it. You can grow, you can move beyond, you can be god free. You don't need it, you don't need it at all!

Yes, a regular anti zealot…. We got it the first several times, years ago now, I believe.

 

[Jakey53]

I think feckless made a very good point to you earlier which you glossed over. You should take that level of skepticism you use to scrutinize the government and apply it to any mega church. If you were to do that I don't think it'd take long for that altruistic facade to fall away. They are opportunistic grifters taking advantage of the well meaning and the downtrodden alike. They may do some good here and there but that's their short game, their long game is power, influence, and money!

I am being the change I want to see in the world. I want people to realize church is not necessary, belief in a god is not necessary, and all religions are almost certainly made up by man. It's not real, there is no god one needs worship, and that is most importantly....that is completely ok! You can live a very happy, rich, and fulfilling live without it. You can grow, you can move beyond, you can be god free. You don't need it, you don't need it at all!

When I was a young buck, my grandfather who I believe had grade three education, once said politics and religion will destroy this country. He hit the nail on the head. I'm not by no means religious, but I believe in God, each to their own.

 

[Jakey53]

Someone tell Marty Walsh how many owners do this for their players.....

What an "asshat" that Meruelo fellow is.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

When I was a young buck, my grandfather who I believe had grade three education, once said politics and religion will destroy this country. He hit the nail on the head. I'm not by no means religious, but I believe in God, each to their own.

Politics and religion are divisive topics for sure. When they're mixed, like people are trying to do lately, it becomes nuclear.

We'd all get along better if we realized that freedom OF religion also implies freedom FROM religion, and if we understood that politics are by consent of the governed, not to be forced upon them.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Politics and religion are divisive topics for sure

I'm required to complete SERE (survival, evasion, resistance, escape) training every year. We're taught that if you are ever captured/kidnapped, do not discuss religion or politics with your captor.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I see no reason to convince people not to be who they are. The joy of this country's Constitution is that it aims to limit State imposition of religion. I have no problem with someone being athiest, nor someone who believes in God. My only issue is with those who try to evangelize me to become like them, be it a religious person or an athiest person.

 

[Foggy1097]

When I was a young buck, my grandfather who I believe had grade three education, once said politics and religion will destroy this country. He hit the nail on the head. I'm not by no means religious, but I believe in God, each to their own.

Your grandad was onto something there. But I don’t think it’s the politics and religion themselves at face value, it’s more the emotions attached to them. People get too attached to an ideology or position and feel like they have to defend it all costs if they even perceive it’s being attacked or challenged. Nothing wrong with a little debate and idea exchange but people usually let their egos get in the way of anything constructive when they become too identified with a certain position. It’s really easy to use those things as tools to rile people up…

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Your grandad was onto something there. But I don’t think it’s the politics and religion themselves at face value, it’s more the emotions attached to them. People get too attached to an ideology or position and feel like they have to defend it all costs if they even perceive it’s being attacked or challenged. Nothing wrong with a little debate and idea exchange but people usually let their egos get in the way of anything constructive when they become too identified with a certain position. It’s really easy to use those things as tools to rile people up…

Exchange of ideas and understanding is good. I certainly can enjoy the fun of Diwali without sharing the belief system, as an example.

 

[MIGs Dog]

I know it sucks to lose, but don't think I've ever seen all the players fall face first, in the same direction no less. It's like they were mowed down with a Tommy Gun.

 

[rt]

I know it sucks to lose, but don't think I've ever seen all the players fall face first, in the same direction no less. It's like they were mowed down with a Tommy Gun.

It happens at lower levels. These are very young kids.

 

[TheLegend]

Politics and religion are divisive topics for sure. When they're mixed, like people are trying to do lately, it becomes nuclear.

We'd all get along better if we realized that freedom OF religion also implies freedom FROM religion, and if we understood that politics are by consent of the governed, not to be forced upon them.

Which was why the guys who set up things back in the 1770’s wanted to keep church and state separate.

Pretty smart those guys … not perfect…. but smart.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

I know it sucks to lose, but don't think I've ever seen all the players fall face first, in the same direction no less. It's like they were mowed down with a Tommy Gun.

That's a pretty impressive photo; it really does look choreographed. Because they all had to stay down in the time it took the entire Centennial bench to skate to that spot near the corner.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

That's a pretty impressive photo; it really does look choreographed. Because they all had to stay down in the time it took the entire Centennial bench to skate to that spot near the corner.

yeah, they stayed face down for quite a while and the coach actually had to go retrieve some of the players off the bench...but there were a lot of people there, it was a fun hockey game to be at.

Lot's of action and Notre Dame 3 mins before the game winning goal actually had a breakaway, but the kid couldn't put it in (Captain #91), so he must feel really bad.

Notre Dame scored first 1-0 and through first 10 mins was outshooting Centennial 9-1, but then Centennial came back and tied it up and I believe sog finished at 13-12 at the end of the 1st period.

Centennial went ahead 3-1 and then Notre Dame scored 2 in the 3rd period to tie it...the last one with like 5 mins remaining.

 

[Sinurgy]

All good brother, you do what works for you. I did respond to feckless and acknowledged his good points that I do partially agree with. I’m glad that you’re so headstrong and definitive in your beliefs about the nature of the universe. I have my own convictions but am also always trying to learn and examine different perspectives. I’m glad you’ve got it all figured out!

Oh I don't have it all figured out, not even remotely close. What I don't know could just about fit inside the grand canyon (Clerks reference ). I have questions about the universe, how we ultimately got here, why we're here (assuming there even is a why), how does it all work, is it just random, are their multiple universes, etc. I do have a strong conviction that religions are man made and the concept of a god(s) we need to worship is also man made but beyond that, who the hell knows.

Why do you care what others believe? Certainly much evil has been done in the name of religion, but so has a lot of good. If spirituality and the belief in a higher power helps people achieve peace of mind, I'd argue religion is a net benefit to society.

I don't care what others personally believe, what I care about is their compulsion to spread their beliefs far and wide. They want schools making decisions based on those beliefs, they want government making decisions based on those beliefs, they want laws based on those beliefs, they want academia to "study" based on those beliefs, they want to control people based on those beliefs. In short that spirituality and belief in god tends to leak out into everything they do and they are rarely tolerant of those who choose a different path. I do not think that is a net benefit to society at all, in fact I'd argue it's quite destructive so that's what I try to combat it when I can.

My response to foggy's "be the change" was mostly about wanting people to open their minds to the possibility that all the religions of the world are made up, they are at best total guesses and if you want to believe in them fine but just know that you absolutely do not have to in order to be happy or lead a fulfilling life.

Yes, a regular anti zealot…. We got it the first several times, years ago now, I believe.

Good, then you know what to expect in the future!

 

[Dirty Old Man]

(that's one of my favorite bumper stickers ever, that I saw in Florida some years ago: "Militant Agnostic: I don't know, and you don't either!" )

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Which was why the guys who set up things back in the 1770’s wanted to keep church and state separate.

Pretty smart those guys … not perfect…. but smart.

Really smart. I read the Federalist Papers and was very, very impressed.

 

[Sinurgy]

Politics and religion are divisive topics for sure. When they're mixed, like people are trying to do lately, it becomes nuclear.

We'd all get along better if we realized that freedom OF religion also implies freedom FROM religion, and if we understood that politics are by consent of the governed, not to be forced upon them.

I don't care what others personally believe, what I care about is their compulsion to spread their beliefs far and wide. They want schools making decisions based on those beliefs, they want government making decisions based on those beliefs, they want laws based on those beliefs, they want academia to "study" based on those beliefs, they want to control people based on those beliefs. In short that spirituality and belief in god tends to leak out into everything they do and they are rarely tolerant of those who choose a different path.

Aaaaaand right on queue:
Arizona GOP lawmakers back bill to prohibit satanic displays on public property

 

[rt]

yeah, they stayed face down for quite a while and the coach actually had to go retrieve some of the players off the bench...but there were a lot of people there, it was a fun hockey game to be at.

Lot's of action and Notre Dame 3 mins before the game winning goal actually had a breakaway, but the kid couldn't put it in (Captain #91), so he must feel really bad.

Notre Dame scored first 1-0 and through first 10 mins was outshooting Centennial 9-1, but then Centennial came back and tied it up and I believe sog finished at 13-12 at the end of the 1st period.

Centennial went ahead 3-1 and then Notre Dame scored 2 in the 3rd period to tie it...the last one with like 5 mins remaining.

It was a really fun game. Great environment. I brought 6 kids ages 6-9 and they had an absolute blast.

 

[Foggy1097]

Aaaaaand right on queue:
Arizona GOP lawmakers back bill to prohibit satanic displays on public property

Haha listen, there has to be at least some societal boundaries still, ok. Everyday life shouldn’t be a Burning Man festival with guys walking around in assless chaps and ritualistic satan statues on the corner. I mean, right? I like libertarian principles but, c’mon. If people are going to get arrested for literally sitting and silently praying in front of abortion clinics (yes that’s happening) then you don’t get your satan statue display, sorry. People are still trying to raise kids in this world believe it or not. So I get to tell them, “yeah honey those people just got arrested for silent prayer, but those guys across the street are praying to a Baal statue, the god of child sacrifice, and it’s totally cool.” What???

Let’s set aside whether or not you believe any of it is real for a second for the sake of the conversation (because you and I both don’t have any evidence of that one way or another anyway), and just look at the message we are sending. One thing stands for good/light (even though yes wrong still gets done in its name from time to time) and one stands for evil/dark. If someone wants to be into that stuff fine, but why should the public have to have it shoved in their face? You’re gonna probably say, “well what about the other religious statues, what if I don’t want to look at them and I’m not religious.” One is universally regarded as aesthetically pleasing and beautiful, and one is disgusting and a representation of hell. Let’s just be real for a second. We can live and let live while still maintaining at least SOME semblance of social decorum, morality and boundaries. This isn’t a free for all circus.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

We can live and let live while still maintaining at least SOME semblance of social decorum, morality and boundaries. This isn’t a free for all circus.

You're getting into some mighty gray area, because the implication of your position above is that, by default, Christianity is the basis of social decorum, morality, and boundaries, as well as what the definitions of "good/light" and "evil/dark" are.

Also, your line: "If someone wants to be into that stuff fine, but why should the public have to have it shoved in their face?" can and should apply to Christianity as much as anything else you might suggest.

Finally, in your "silent prayer vs. Baal statue" example, it's all about location (HAR!). If the folks praying would do it across the street where the hypothetical devil worshippers are, they wouldn't get arrested. They get arrested - as would Baal worshipers, Coyotes ticket representatives, buskers, human statues, etc. - if they trespass on private property and impede people from accessing the facility. They don't get arrested otherwise.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Haha listen, there has to be at least some societal boundaries still, ok. Everyday life shouldn’t be a Burning Man festival with guys walking around in assless chaps and ritualistic satan statues on the corner. I mean, right? I like libertarian principles but, c’mon. If people are going to get arrested for literally sitting and silently praying in front of abortion clinics (yes that’s happening) then you don’t get your satan statue display, sorry. People are still trying to raise kids in this world believe it or not. So I get to tell them, “yeah honey those people just got arrested for silent prayer, but those guys across the street are praying to a Baal statue, the god of child sacrifice, and it’s totally cool.” What???

Let’s set aside whether or not you believe any of it is real for a second for the sake of the conversation (because you and I both don’t have any evidence of that one way or another anyway), and just look at the message we are sending. One thing stands for good/light (even though yes wrong still gets done in its name from time to time) and one stands for evil/dark. If someone wants to be into that stuff fine, but why should the public have to have it shoved in their face? You’re gonna probably say, “well what about the other religious statues, what if I don’t want to look at them and I’m not religious.” One is universally regarded as aesthetically pleasing and beautiful, and one is disgusting and a representation of hell. Let’s just be real for a second. We can live and let live while still maintaining at least SOME semblance of social decorum, morality and boundaries. This isn’t a free for all circus.

Whose morality do you want to enforce? Where do you set the bar as to what is legally allowed? You may find some people's beliefs and actions offensive. I get it. I don't like hearing from people knocking at my door that I will burn in hell because I am Jewish. That doesn't mean such speech should be illegal. You need to be careful in limiting other people's freedoms lest your own freedom be limited as well.

No child wives? Absolutely. How about no guns? Guns kill more children than any other cause, including car accidents and infectious disease.