Confirmed with Link: [ARI/TOR] Conor Timmins to Toronto for Curtis Douglas

[meefer]

That's good! But 4 points in 10 AHL games from a centre vs 6 point from a defenseman in 8 NHL games is still a massive win for us in that trade.
I know you're not saying otherwise, I'm just using your post to say it

And, it's raised the value of Timmins if Toronto decides that an upgrade is desirable. If Keefe continues to use him and Connor continues to add a few points here and there, without getting injured, I'd suggest he can become a viable piece of a package deal.

 

[Prominence]

Oh yeah i should clarify. Most trades are lateral or close to lateral in value. Most teams don’t really win trades unless the gm is a complete idiot. I just thought dubas was the kind of gm who would lose small in a trade that doesn’t benefit the leafs (leivo to canucks), which is fine as those trades don’t yield much or does trades where both teams receive equivalent value (muzzin). Although that foligno trade was messy.

This could result in the leafs getting an nhl player who has 2nd-3rd round value while arizona gets an ahler/echler. Usually trades aren’t this bad.

 

[LeafSteel]

And, it's raised the value of Timmins if Toronto decides that an upgrade is desirable. If Keefe continues to use him and Connor continues to add a few points here and there, without getting injured, I'd suggest he can become a viable piece of a package deal.

Timmins replaces Holl next season, if not sooner.

Timmins has a higher ceiling than Holl and represents a real opportunity to slot into our top 4.

I want Timmins in as much as possible between now and the TDL. Considering how much time he’s missed, factor in rust and a new team, and he’s been head and shoulders above what even the most optimistic Leaf fan could hope for.

Timmins, if he stays healthy, is a part of our future. He isn’t being included in a trade. He has more value to us than what he would garner as a trade throw in.

 

[Buds17]

And, it's raised the value of Timmins if Toronto decides that an upgrade is desirable. If Keefe continues to use him and Connor continues to add a few points here and there, without getting injured, I'd suggest he can become a viable piece of a package deal.

Valid concern for injury aside, Timmins could end up being a cheaper "replacement" for Holl on next season's blueline and I think it'd be tough to part with that.

 

[saltming]

And, it's raised the value of Timmins if Toronto decides that an upgrade is desirable. If Keefe continues to use him and Connor continues to add a few points here and there, without getting injured, I'd suggest he can become a viable piece of a package deal.

I prefer him over Holl but depending on the trade

 

[Macallan18]

This could result in the leafs getting an nhl player who has 2nd-3rd round value while arizona gets an ahler/echler. Usually trades aren’t this bad.

Timmins looking much more like a 1st rounder, remember he was picked 32 overall.
Big win for Dubas, Arizona wanting to tank driving this trade?

Valid concern for injury aside, Timmins could end up being a cheaper "replacement" for Holl on next season's blueline and I think it'd be tough to part with that.

I think Holl comes back next year on a better contract. I think if there were teams that were so interested they would bid for him in the free agent market , Dubas would have been able to trade him some time ago.

 

[Buds17]

Timmins looking much more like a 1st rounder, remember he was picked 32 overall.
Big win for Dubas, Arizona wanting to tank driving this trade?


I think Holl comes back next year on a better contract. I think if there were teams that were so interested they would bid for him in the free agent market , Dubas would have been able to trade him some time ago.

I can't envision Dubas ever having been overly serious about trading Holl. I also believe that teams sometimes prefer to conduct business via free agency rather than through trade (simply wishing to give up cap space instead of even more valuable assets). You could very well be proven right about the lack of a market for Holl though. Time will tell.

 

[therealkoho]

Some thoughts:

- When this trade happened, a lot of people acted like douglas was a surefire power forward albeit 4th liner in the nhl. What’s also interesting is that if you talk to some stars fans, they had criticisms of douglas as a prospect dating back to the rookie tourney.
- There was an injury risk with timmins, which is fair. This lowered his value.
- This could be one of the few times dubas wins a trade. I’m of the opinion that trades are lateral and half of the gms in the league try to make fair trades.
- Arizona is a good trade partner. They gave us lybushkin last year and let us unload ritchie.

I'm also thinking that Arizona serves the Toronto Maple Leafs by the pleasure of the NHL more often than most are aware, although this instance may just be that they wanted a forward as a stop gap for the Roadrunners who'll need forwards soon enough.
The Yotes will soon start dumping off NHL forwards, forwards they don't want in the upcoming rebuild but forwards that will be good depth pieces on contenders. Even some forwards like Crouse, a proven NHL 20 goal power LW, who'll be a major piece for a team that "wants to go all in." You should check out all the picks they've accumulated over the last few years, it's incredible really.

They might get a bunch of kids they can build around with all the 1st, 2nd and 3rds and surprise everyone in 5 years. We won't even go into the cap space they have, cap space that not a lot of teams have that have major players to resign.

 

[ULF_55]

I'm also thinking that Arizona serves the Toronto Maple Leafs by the pleasure of the NHL more often than most are aware, although this instance may just be that they wanted a forward as a stop gap for the Roadrunners who'll need forwards soon enough.
The Yotes will soon start dumping off NHL forwards, forwards they don't want in the upcoming rebuild but forwards that will be good depth pieces on contenders. Even some forwards like Crouse, a proven NHL 20 goal power LW, who'll be a major piece for a team that "wants to go all in." You should check out all the picks they've accumulated over the last few years, it's incredible really.

They might get a bunch of kids they can build around with all the 1st, 2nd and 3rds and surprise everyone in 5 years. We won't even go into the cap space they have, cap space that not a lot of teams have that have major players to resign.

They'll probably be party 2 of a 3 party trades.

As long as it isn't cash related.

 

[meefer]

Timmins replaces Holl next season, if not sooner.

Timmins has a higher ceiling than Holl and represents a real opportunity to slot into our top 4.

I want Timmins in as much as possible between now and the TDL. Considering how much time he’s missed, factor in rust and a new team, and he’s been head and shoulders above what even the most optimistic Leaf fan could hope for.

Timmins, if he stays healthy, is a part of our future. He isn’t being included in a trade. He has more value to us than what he would garner as a trade throw in.

Valid concern for injury aside, Timmins could end up being a cheaper "replacement" for Holl on next season's blueline and I think it'd be tough to part with that.

I prefer him over Holl but depending on the trade

I'm not suggesting that I want to see him go anywhere, but this year I find it difficult to see him displacing anyone ahead of him on the right side. And, to continue the idea of a trade, the three of you seem 'cautious' about moving him out...why? Because his value has jumped considerably, and perhaps more in the next few weeks? Heck, if he knocks it out of the park, I'd be holding onto Timmins too. But, if this year shows possibilities, is CT more valuable than a 3rd pick, a middle prospect, high end...I don't know, but based on your reactions, he seems to be trending well. Heck, I've enjoyed watching the kid play, I'm hesitant to move on him, today. But, if someone comes knocking on the door, and asks if CT is available, as part of a package or otherwise, I'm listening, because this year he's a free asset who might help us more than he himself.

 

[therealkoho]

Timmins replaces Holl next season, if not sooner.

Timmins has a higher ceiling than Holl and represents a real opportunity to slot into our top 4.

I want Timmins in as much as possible between now and the TDL. Considering how much time he’s missed, factor in rust and a new team, and he’s been head and shoulders above what even the most optimistic Leaf fan could hope for.

Timmins, if he stays healthy, is a part of our future. He isn’t being included in a trade. He has more value to us than what he would garner as a trade throw in.

With the exception of a brief 4 game stretch, 4 games inside a 8 game stretch the Leafs were horrible. Justin Holl has given the Leafs an average of 21:23 really solid minutes with all above average defensive indicators for 2m dollars, why would you want to get rid of him?

 

[Martin Skoula]

With the exception of a brief 4 game stretch, 4 games inside a 8 game stretch the Leafs were horrible. Justin Holl has given the Leafs an average of 21:23 really solid minutes with all above average defensive indicators for 2m dollars, why would you want to get rid of him?

His panic threshhold is lower than you want from a big minute man in the playoffs. You run into the same problem as you did with Rielly-Hainsey, the RD works playing big minutes in the regular season but as soon as the playoffs start teams focus in on dumping the puck into the RD corner every time and turning it into giveaways on the forecheck. Hainsey lacked speed to move the puck before he had two guys on him, Holl just doesn't make good decisions quickly under pressure.

It depends on the matchup though, if we were facing a one-line threat that needed to be slowed down through the neutral zone (think Holl vs McDavid in the covid year) then he's fine playing those minutes. If it's a team with a deeper bottom-6 like Tampa's that attacks you in your corner, Holl is going to cost us goals against.

 

[Knies iT]

Oh yeah i should clarify. Most trades are lateral or close to lateral in value. Most teams don’t really win trades unless the gm is a complete idiot. I just thought dubas was the kind of gm who would lose small in a trade that doesn’t benefit the leafs (leivo to canucks), which is fine as those trades don’t yield much or does trades where both teams receive equivalent value (muzzin). Although that foligno trade was messy.

This could result in the leafs getting an nhl player who has 2nd-3rd round value while arizona gets an ahler/echler. Usually trades aren’t this bad.

Dubas has a net loss track record in trades so there's no reason to scale back your initial statement. That's true for most GMs but his clear cut wins are few and far between. Hoping this is one of them.

 

[therealkoho]

His panic threshhold is lower than you want from a big minute man in the playoffs. You run into the same problem as you did with Rielly-Hainsey, the RD works playing big minutes in the regular season but as soon as the playoffs start teams focus in on dumping the puck into the RD corner every time and turning it into giveaways on the forecheck. Hainsey lacked speed to move the puck before he had two guys on him, Holl just doesn't make good decisions quickly under pressure.

It depends on the matchup though, if we were facing a one-line threat that needed to be slowed down through the neutral zone (think Holl vs McDavid in the covid year) then he's fine playing those minutes. If it's a team with a deeper bottom-6 like Tampa's that attacks you in your corner, Holl is going to cost us goals against.

This of course makes me think of the Brewer Hillman pairing and the perception of Brewers playmaking strengths, when everyone knew that when paired with good ol Duff Goldwanger they pretty much dried up like the Los Angeles River

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

Dubas has a net loss track record in trades so there's no reason to scale back your initial statement. That's true for most GMs but his clear cut wins are few and far between. Hoping this is one of them.

The value dubas has got in the trades hes won is greater than the value in the trades he's lost. He might have more "lost" trades, but most of them are leivo level losses.

 

[saltming]

I'm not suggesting that I want to see him go anywhere, but this year I find it difficult to see him displacing anyone ahead of him on the right side. And, to continue the idea of a trade, the three of you seem 'cautious' about moving him out...why? Because his value has jumped considerably, and perhaps more in the next few weeks? Heck, if he knocks it out of the park, I'd be holding onto Timmins too. But, if this year shows possibilities, is CT more valuable than a 3rd pick, a middle prospect, high end...I don't know, but based on your reactions, he seems to be trending well. Heck, I've enjoyed watching the kid play, I'm hesitant to move on him, today. But, if someone comes knocking on the door, and asks if CT is available, as part of a package or otherwise, I'm listening, because this year he's a free asset who might help us more than he himself.

My comment said, depending on the trade. I'm of the opinion anyone can vr traded. It always depends on the return.
If he continues I think he would be able to replace Holl. He's really good at holding the blueline and his puck moving and offense is better than Holl, hence the reason I would prefer to keep him, again depending on the trade.

I would not want picks for him as we are in the win window, so I'm about the right now over the possible future

 

[meefer]

My comment said, depending on the trade. I'm of the opinion anyone can vr traded. It always depends on the return.
If he continues I think he would be able to replace Holl. He's really good at holding the blueline and his puck moving and offense is better than Holl, hence the reason I would prefer to keep him, again depending on the trade.

I would not want picks for him as we are in the win window, so I'm about the right now over the possible future

Apologies, misinterpreted.

 

[darrylsittler27]

With our defense being decimated by injuries the only way Holl or Timmins get traded is if it's for an upgrade.

 

[Leafs87]

Leafs should re-sign him asap

 

[LeafChief]

I know Giordano wants to play as much as possible but with how well Timmins has been playing, it may be a good idea to get Gio some rest when Sandin comes back.

Need Gio at full force come playoff time.

 

[wingman75]

I know Giordano wants to play as much as possible but with how well Timmins has been playing, it may be a good idea to get Gio some rest when Sandin comes back.

Need Gio at full force come playoff time.

After tonights game, Timmins would be the guy I'd be giving some rest to. Rough one for him.

He has been very good since entering the lineup. I like the poise he has with the puck, and he brings some much needed physicality.

How the Coyotes didn't have room on their roster for him is puzzling. I guess the injury history was just too much to overlook.

 

[DarkKnight]

I know he probably sits when Sandin comes back, but man he doesn’t deserve too.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

I know he probably sits when Sandin comes back, but man he doesn’t deserve too.

I think he needs to play in order to improve his defensive game, which given the injuries he's had, is understandably behind. But the kid is an elite passer and has the potential to be a really good defenceman for us.

 

[Beaumaris]

With the exception of a brief 4 game stretch, 4 games inside a 8 game stretch the Leafs were horrible. Justin Holl has given the Leafs an average of 21:23 really solid minutes with all above average defensive indicators for 2m dollars, why would you want to get rid of him?

That’s what I‘ve been wondering

 

[CabanaBoy5]

With the exception of a brief 4 game stretch, 4 games inside a 8 game stretch the Leafs were horrible. Justin Holl has given the Leafs an average of 21:23 really solid minutes with all above average defensive indicators for 2m dollars, why would you want to get rid of him?

Not gonna lie, Holl has been very good. If he recognizes his limitations, and plays within himself, he can be a solid defencemen. He's entrusted to defend against some of the best players in the league and has done an admirable job. On Saturday, he made life difficult for MacKinnon, as he had done against Ovechkin. He seems to have limited his carelessness with the puck and is also moving the puck quicker rather than skate with the puck. He just has to stop the Riellyesque offensive forays deep into the opponent's zone.