Confirmed with Link: [ARI/TOR] Conor Timmins to Toronto for Curtis Douglas

[Tarmore]

The second he didn't shoot the lights out with no PP time and 4th line minutes they just bailed.

That's a large steaming pile of.... stuff you typed there.

The truth is the Leafs saw an opportunity to get better. They had a need for a Dman and had to give up a roster player to make it happen.

 

[The Podium]

People around here will continue to hate Timmons regardless of what he does.

He can end up a #4 D on this team long term and will still rub people the wrong way because Dubas traded Douglas

 

[Razz]

That's a large steaming pile of.... stuff you typed there.

The truth is the Leafs saw an opportunity to get better. They had a need for a Dman and had to give up a roster player to make it happen.

It was pretty good GM work to be fair to Dubas. The conditions for the trade were sort of interesting where the Leafs had early LTIR money and a clear roster opening for an RHD and Arizona needed to unload a player that they can't afford to pay a 1-way salary for. So you needed a team willing to take a player at a full cap hit at a time when no teams had cap space.

A perfect trade fit in an environment where trades are virtually nonexistent due to the ridiculous cap crunch.

 

[freshwind]

It was pretty good GM work to be fair to Dubas. The conditions for the trade were sort of interesting where the Leafs had early LTIR money and a clear roster opening for an RHD and Arizona needed to unload a player that they can't afford to pay a 1-way salary for. So you needed a team willing to take a player at a full cap hit at a time when no teams had cap space.

A perfect trade fit in an environment where trades are virtually nonexistent due to the ridiculous cap crunch.

this is an under rated comment ... timmins probably clears waivers because of his 1 way deal ... this trade saves the yotes about half a mill in real dollars ... not trivial for a team with no revenue lol

 

[LeafSteel]

I liked that the Leafs/Marlies took on Douglas as a project. He earned an ELC. I wanted him to be able to develop into a big 4C that can fight and be fast on the forecheck. He may very well still be those things for another team.

Timmins has higher pedigree, more skill, fills a position of need and is able to have a more immediate effect. The trade is really a transaction of receiving something for what will probably be nothing.

This is pretty much me.

Nailed it @LeafChief .

 

[Fogelhund]

Curtis Douglas, drafted by Dallas, went unsigned



Who’s organization signed Douglas to give him a shot with the Marlies…. Dubas

When Douglas played well, who signed him to a NHL contract? Dubas

This idea that Dubas doesn’t sign size, grit, etc seems to be massively misplaced, when Dubas is the guy, or the guy in charge of the org, bringing this kid to the org in the first place.

I was one of the first people here talking about Douglas. Pointing out how well he was doing last year. I was also the first asking what was wrong with him this year. I watch Marlies games when I can, saw parts/whole of 4-5 games so far this year. He was just invisible. I watched the game where he skated away from a scrum after our goalie was run. I mean, if you aren’t scoring, you better at least stand up for our guys. I repeatedly asked our Marlies reporters what was wrong with them… but it seems they don’t respond to questions, in particular negative ones.

This was Douglas’ first and in all probability his last NHL contract. He was given opportunity, and either he failed to put in the work, or just doesn’t have the capability to move forward. Don’t pin that on the guy who gave him that opportunity.

Dude was given an opportunity by Dubas close to home, family, girlfriend, and he not only failed to take the next step, he regressed, in every manner.

To make this into a reason to bash Dubas, for trading a guy not working out at the AHL level, for a guy who is now on our NHL roster (and yes he’ll get bumped before getting a real opp next year) is uniquely something of magic, man.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

How is getting sheltered minutes? He's playing on the second pair and first unit penalty kill.

He's playing 17 minutes a night and getting caved in in those minutes. That's not a 2nd pair defenseman.

 

[Fogelhund]

He's playing 17 minutes a night and getting caved in in those minutes. That's not a 2nd pair defenseman.

Schenn has the sixth most minutes per game of their D. As you say, getting caved doing so. Somehow such current NHL greats, Myers, OEL, Bear and Burroughs are getting more minutes than Schenn. 6th minutes on one of the worst defensive teams in the league is somehow going to improve the top six for the second best defensive team?

 

[kb]

People around here will continue to hate Timmons regardless of what he does.

He can end up a #4 D on this team long term and will still rub people the wrong way because Dubas traded Douglas

Just one.

 

[Razz]

this is an under rated comment ... timmins probably clears waivers because of his 1 way deal ... this trade saves the yotes about half a mill in real dollars ... not trivial for a team with no revenue lol

Exactly, and what I find more impressive about it, is that Dubas was proactive in finding that market and executing it before Timmins went to waivers. He managed to fill a roster hole in a deadlocked trade market by being proactive. Such an underrated move here. I'm getting annoyed by the fact we haven't re-signed him. The guy has upgraded our NHL assets with this and the Murray trade, for basically free.

Also, we can't ignore the top SV% goalie right now is a UFA signing for 1.8M and will be pending RFA at the end of the season. I mean hell, at this rate he could be flipped for a 1st (not that I'd want that, just saying).

 

[Jojalu]

Exactly, and what I find more impressive about it, is that Dubas was proactive in finding that market and executing it before Timmins went to waivers. He managed to fill a roster hole in a deadlocked trade market by being proactive. Such an underrated move here. I'm getting annoyed by the fact we haven't re-signed him. The guy has upgraded our NHL assets with this and the Murray trade, for basically free.

Also, we can't ignore the top SV% goalie right now is a UFA signing for 1.8M and will be pending RFA at the end of the season. I mean hell, at this rate he could be flipped for a 1st (not that I'd want that, just saying).

If you go over the Joe Sakic model, and Dubas himself, in today's NHL you have to take every oppotunity to get better if it arises.

You have to take chances on players if they cost little in return, or a small cap hit.

The Avs have done a great job on filling in their roster with players cast off or valued little by other organizations.

The odd time it won't work, but for the times it does it makes their respective clubs that much better and in the Avs case Champions

 

[Razz]

If you go over the Joe Sakic model, and Dubas himself, in today's NHL you have to take every oppotunity to get better if it arises.

You have to take chances on players if they cost little in return, or a small cap hit.

The Avs have done a great job on filling in their roster with players cast off or valued little by other organizations.

The odd time it won't work, but for the times it does it makes their respective clubs that much better and in the Avs case Champions

Yeah, I think an important lesson learned which Dubas takes to heart is if you have a superstar core, the best way to utilize it is to build up your assets around them by bringing in low-value with potentially high reward prospects, rather than spending all of your assets for short-term gains for playoff runs that provide no organizational value beyond the current season.

I guess if I were a GM, that's where the real fun of the job would be.

 

[Ciao]

this is an under rated comment ... timmins probably clears waivers because of his 1 way deal ... this trade saves the yotes about half a mill in real dollars ... not trivial for a team with no revenue lol

Beyond that, the Leafs are at 50 contracts and could not have even claimed Tommins off waivers.

They needed to clear one contract to acquire another, and Douglas was expendable.

 

[Martin Skoula]

It's a bit sad that the over-pumping of Douglas by one or more posters causes the rest of us to correctly point out his shortcomings as a player to more accurately assess the trade, when I'm sure that every single one of us like Curtis Douglas and would like nothing more than for him to succeed.

However, based on what we've seen, he's just not there yet, and will probably never get there.

As so many others have already pointed out, Conor Timmins has probably accomplished more in four games with the Leafs than Douglas ever will in his entire career.

Still rooting for him, though, even with another franchise. It would be awesome to see him actually take off.

Yeah if Douglas was our draft pick out of some Euro league where we could forget about him for 5 years and hope he comes over one day to sign an ELC as a finished product at 26 like a Komarov that would have been better, but when he's occupying a contract slot and development slot on the Marlies he unfortunately needs to consistently show growth or we'll find another big man who will.

 

[TML Dynasty]

Maybe?

Maybe?

Do you think it's a stretch to think he may be grateful to a team that gave him a shot when others wouldn't?

Lol wtf point are u trying to make here man.

I said I wish the best for him but don’t actually want him becoming an nhl player in case he has a chip on his shoulder when he comes back into town. He’s a big fella and it was a light comment. Sure he it’s possible he may not care….good job on pointing that out I guess? I don’t think it’s really going to be an issue anyway.

 

[Magic Man]

They literally weren't good enough, and nothing has been proven otherwise. I don't know how you can argue that our development was the problem, with zero evidence, especially when every single one of the players continued on the exact same path once leaving. Douglas to AHL. Joshua to ECHL/AHL. Marchment to AHL. Neither Douglas or Joshua have done anything worthwhile since leaving, and it took two more years and hitting UFA status before Marchment did anything worthwhile.

I doubt you've actually watched him, and I don't really care what he does before or after. Fact is he sucked while here, despite being given every opportunity to succeed. And he has 5 even strength points on the year, so I think you're exaggerating his resurgence because you want a certain type of player so bad that you'll ignore all of their issues.

Marchment and Joshua were good prospects. Marchment went on to play 6 games in Florida's farm system before playing the next two seasons in the NHL. Joshua had a poor first year where he was developing? I guess and the next season he saw a bulk of NHL games and now he is full time. Within 2 seasons of trading Joshua he was in the NHL, but he wasn't even worth an ELC in Toronto,. Most of the players don't make it. He did but wasn't good enough for an ELC here. That's just poor scouting.

It made little sense not to like this deal when it happened. To still not like it a couple weeks later? That's a little special.

It made no sense not to like Marchment for Malgin for a lot of people as well. I'm guessing they have changed their tune.

You didn't answer the question posed by @CantLoseWithMatthews

It sounds like you've pre-judged the deal and have your mind made up no matter the results. The very definition of a prejudicial decision.

Go ahead and keep digging your hole on thIs one. The evidence is mounting against you.

No matter your likes and personal preferences, its looking like a good deal for the Leafs -- not the firable offence that you declared on day one.

I prejudged the deal because it fell in the line with how Dubas opperates. It was the final straw for me. I tried to support him through the Kadri trade and all the others. But, I simply don't like the way he assembles a hockey team. Even if Douglas doesn't make the NHL I no longer support his thought process of team assembly. He undervalues physicality and I like physical hockey. I don't like seeing our home grown Clarks and Tuckers shipped off for the softest players on other teams (Kerfoot+Barrie) and (Malgin).

 

[ACC1224]

It made no sense not to like Marchment for Malgin for a lot of people as well. I'm guessing they have changed their tune.

These two deals are nothing alike, nothing similar at all.

 

[kb]

For those who need a reminder.

Since the trade:

Connor Timmins - League: NHL Position: RD GP: 4 G: 0 A: 4 (Leafs with shutouts in 3 of the 4 games he played)
Curtis Douglas - League: AHL Position: C GP: 5 G: 0 A: 1

 

[Its not your fault]

Defensive systems are not rocket science once a player gets close to the NHL. Timmins has been exposed to all types and forms of hockey systems since he has played high levels throughout his career.

At this point, he has to want to prove himself, especially since two NHL teams have given up on him. He knows he has to play to prove anything. I would not rule out him wanting for our Leafs to trade him some place they will allow him to play, especially since our Leafs have not given him a chance with all the injuries on D.

Maybe I'm just too anxious to see him play myself!!!

So far you have been wrong

 

[Magic Man]

For those who need a reminder.

Since the trade:

Connor Timmins - League: NHL Position: RD GP: 4 G: 0 A: 4 (Leafs with shutouts in 3 of the 4 games he played)
Curtis Douglas - League: AHL Position: C GP: 5 G: 0 A: 1

Nice, he finally grabbed an apple. So, it begins.

 

[Magic Man]

These two deals are nothing alike, nothing similar at all.

In Marchment's first season in Toronto he paced for 48 points in the middle six, in Douglas' first season in Toronto he paced for 42 points on the 4th line with Rich Clune as his winger, they were both AHL players at the time of the trade with significant physical gifts. Malgin and Timmins are both relatively soft NHL depth players who got starts in the NHL early but never could get away from bottom of the lineup minutes before being moved.

 

[ACC1224]

In Marchment's first season in Toronto he paced for 48 points in the middle six, in Douglas' first season in Toronto he paced for 42 points on the 4th line with Rich Clune as his winger, they were both AHL players at the time of the trade with significant physical gifts. Malgin and Timmins are both relatively soft NHL depth players who got starts in the NHL early but never could get away from bottom of the lineup minutes before being moved.

Doesn't sound like you're too familiar with Timmins if you think he is in anyway comparable to Malgin.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

In Marchment's first season in Toronto he paced for 48 points in the middle six, in Douglas' first season in Toronto he paced for 42 points on the 4th line with Rich Clune as his winger, they were both AHL players at the time of the trade with significant physical gifts. Malgin and Timmins are both relatively soft NHL depth players who got starts in the NHL early but never could get away from bottom of the lineup minutes before being moved.

Malgin is a small (supposedly) skilled winger, while Timmins is a big right-handed defenseman. In terms of value based on team needs and rarity Timmins is a much more valuable piece.

 

[Fogelhund]

In Marchment's first season in Toronto he paced for 48 points in the middle six, in Douglas' first season in Toronto he paced for 42 points on the 4th line with Rich Clune as his winger, they were both AHL players at the time of the trade with significant physical gifts. Malgin and Timmins are both relatively soft NHL depth players who got starts in the NHL early but never could get away from bottom of the lineup minutes before being moved.

If you really think Marchment, and Douglas are comparables, you need to reevaluate how you judge prospects. Marchment was a mistake moving, even at the time I didn't like it, even though his progress wasn't great. Douglas won't even get a NHL contract again. This isn't even close. You actually have to watch, and not stats watch. You'll also end up regretting calling Timmins a relatively soft NHL player.

 

[ACC1224]

Malgin is a small (supposedly) skilled winger, while Timmins is a big right-handed defenseman. In terms of value based on team needs and rarity Timmins is a much more valuable piece.

Calling Timmins 'soft' just proves he's not familiar with the player.