Confirmed with Link: [ARI/TOR] Conor Timmins to Toronto for Curtis Douglas

[Magic Man]

He has 4 points and 3 shutouts in 4 games played. That is definitely all him after watching those games. Similar to how Mac Hollowell is undefeated in regulation at the NHL level, guy is a stud. Not good to trust small sample sizes. Like being a -10 with 12 soft penalty minutes in 6 games to start the year.

Give it some time.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

When is Douglas gonna do his Tage Thompson turn and become Mario + Chara hybrid??

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

He has 4 points and 3 shutouts in 4 games played. That is definitely all him after watching those games. Similar to how Mac Hollowell is undefeated in regulation at the NHL level, guy is a stud. Not good to trust small sample sizes. Like being a -10 with 12 soft penalty minutes in 6 games to start the year.

Give it some time.

Why is 0 games enough time to say Dubas should be fired over this move, but 4 games is too small of a sample to say this move doesn't look that bad?

 

[Magic Man]

Why is 0 games enough time to say Dubas should be fired over this move, but 4 games is too small of a sample to say this move doesn't look that bad?

I don't like the style of play that Dubas wants the Leafs to play. I think it may be conducive to winning in the regular season more so than in the playoffs. For me this was the move that made me hate him. He just does not value physicality at all. He does not hang on to any player that has a bit of fight in him. I'm sick of seeing every prospect or player that is physical get traded for nothing, not get promotions and then get them somewhere else and thrive, get replaced by non contact players. For me I don't have any faith in Dubas to provide me with the type of roster I hope to be able to watch. I just don't see him ever bending on his philosophy.

I just figure you all should temper expectations on Timmins, even though I'm sure it is tempting to show me what time it is. The team is playing well, Timmins had 3 apples in his last game and it's a very small sample of games. It's likely he doesn't maintain that pace and he is sitting once Rielly or Benn are healthy.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I don't like the style of play that Dubas wants the Leafs to play. I think it may be conducive to winning in the regular season more so than in the playoffs. For me this was the move that made me hate him. He just does not value physicality at all. He does not hang on to any player that has a bit of fight in him. I'm sick of seeing every prospect or player that is physical get traded for nothing, not get promotions and then get them somewhere else and thrive, get replaced by non contact players. For me I don't have any faith in Dubas to provide me with the type of roster I hope to be able to watch. I just don't see him ever bending on his philosophy.

I just figure you all should temper expectations on Timmins, even though I'm sure it is tempting to show me what time it is. The team is playing well, Timmins had 3 apples in his last game and it's a very small sample of games. It's likely he doesn't maintain that pace and he is sitting once Rielly or Benn are healthy.

Those 3 NHL apples are overwhelmingly likely to be 3 more NHL apples than Douglas ever gets in his career. Why isn't he playing with the Coyotes right now, are they worried playing a rookie will interfere with their playoff hopes?

 

[Ciao]

I don't like the style of play that Dubas wants the Leafs to play. I think it may be conducive to winning in the regular season more so than in the playoffs. For me this was the move that made me hate him. He just does not value physicality at all. He does not hang on to any player that has a bit of fight in him. I'm sick of seeing every prospect or player that is physical get traded for nothing, not get promotions and then get them somewhere else and thrive, get replaced by non contact players. For me I don't have any faith in Dubas to provide me with the type of roster I hope to be able to watch. I just don't see him ever bending on his philosophy.

I just figure you all should temper expectations on Timmins, even though I'm sure it is tempting to show me what time it is. The team is playing well, Timmins had 3 apples in his last game and it's a very small sample of games. It's likely he doesn't maintain that pace and he is sitting once Rielly or Benn are healthy.

You didn't answer the question posed by @CantLoseWithMatthews

It sounds like you've pre-judged the deal and have your mind made up no matter the results. The very definition of a prejudicial decision.

Go ahead and keep digging your hole on thIs one. The evidence is mounting against you.

No matter your likes and personal preferences, its looking like a good deal for the Leafs -- not the firable offence that you declared on day one.

 

[deprw]

Interesting takes in this thread, that we should keep guys like Douglas and Joshua beyond their welcome, since they can turn into something valuable if we give them years and years of development. At the same time some believe that Timmins is finished product.

It would be nice log jam if we'd keep every guy around that has size and some promise. For what? Season or two of good play, hopefully I assume.

Nothing agains Douglas with good camp and some promise he probably would be still here and we would have traded some other fringe prospect. It's just always fatal problem if you don't have hockey sense to keep up in the pace of the AHL. It goes way up in the NHL.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

I don't like the style of play that Dubas wants the Leafs to play. I think it may be conducive to winning in the regular season more so than in the playoffs. For me this was the move that made me hate him. He just does not value physicality at all. He does not hang on to any player that has a bit of fight in him. I'm sick of seeing every prospect or player that is physical get traded for nothing, not get promotions and then get them somewhere else and thrive, get replaced by non contact players. For me I don't have any faith in Dubas to provide me with the type of roster I hope to be able to watch. I just don't see him ever bending on his philosophy.

I just figure you all should temper expectations on Timmins, even though I'm sure it is tempting to show me what time it is. The team is playing well, Timmins had 3 apples in his last game and it's a very small sample of games. It's likely he doesn't maintain that pace and he is sitting once Rielly or Benn are healthy.

But he does value physicality and has brought in several physical players over the last couple of years. Simmons, Ritchie, Clifford twice, ZAR, NAK, Lyubushkin, and Polak. He has also signed several big,tall players to the AHL team to develop that have a resume of being physical.
What you are really saying is you want the to bring back the 1980's and 1990's WWE style of hockey that Toronto used to play. While half the teams in the NHL were icing fake tough guy hockey teams, teams with skill like Detroit and Pittsburgh were winning cups by building teams with skill and adding the toughness around the edges. This is how the current Leafs teams has been built. It is a winning formula that has been proven since the late 80's in the NHL.

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

I can't quote posts right now.

LeafChief - He doesn't need to be a burner at 6'9 he can cover the majority of the ice sheet by extending his arms out.

BertCorbeau - I think Toronto is having issues identifying good players that can play physical hockey. I think errors like Marchment and Joshua are scouting issues. Other teams seem to be identifying players in Toronto's system and plucking them and feeding them ice time and they're burning us. They were never bad prospects the team they were on didn't care enough about their success to help them get there. These players got there somewhere else because that teams management saw potential in them and gave them an opportunity to succeed. Like Ritchie last year, he struggled to start the year and he was never put in a position to succeed again, he went to Arizona and immediately started to produce. They are having one hell of time developing or finding physical players they can actually use in their lineup.

diehardleafsfan9878 - John Scott never scored more than 6 points in any season he's ever had since he started junior hockey in the NCAA. That spans 14 seasons, mostly in the NHL. Curtis Douglas scored 34 points in 67 games as a rookie in the AHL.

And yet Douglas will still end up with less NHL games and points than Scott.

 

[saltming]

I don't like the style of play that Dubas wants the Leafs to play. I think it may be conducive to winning in the regular season more so than in the playoffs. For me this was the move that made me hate him. He just does not value physicality at all. He does not hang on to any player that has a bit of fight in him. I'm sick of seeing every prospect or player that is physical get traded for nothing, not get promotions and then get them somewhere else and thrive, get replaced by non contact players. For me I don't have any faith in Dubas to provide me with the type of roster I hope to be able to watch. I just don't see him ever bending on his philosophy.

I just figure you all should temper expectations on Timmins, even though I'm sure it is tempting to show me what time it is. The team is playing well, Timmins had 3 apples in his last game and it's a very small sample of games. It's likely he doesn't maintain that pace and he is sitting once Rielly or Benn are healthy.

Simmonds and Clifford say hi.

While I get what you're saying I disagree to an extent.
Imo dubas likes toughness that can play hockey at a level that matches the teams playing identity.
For instance if Wilson was availabe, in sure dubas would be happy to add him to the team.
For the record I wanted Douglas to pan out, especially after last year, but he doesn't have what this team needs.
Marchment same thing, and I liked him too.
Those guys will do better in a different system more suited to their tools. Here they got left behind on plays essentially leaving their linemates shorthanded

 

[TML Dynasty]

Is he also pissed at Dallas who let him go for nothing?

Maybe?

Do you think it’s a stretch to think he may have a chip on his shoulder?

 

[LeafChief]

I liked that the Leafs/Marlies took on Douglas as a project. He earned an ELC. I wanted him to be able to develop into a big 4C that can fight and be fast on the forecheck. He may very well still be those things for another team.

Timmins has higher pedigree, more skill, fills a position of need and is able to have a more immediate effect. The trade is really a transaction of receiving something for what will probably be nothing.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Those players were good enough, they have proved it since leaving.

They literally weren't good enough, and nothing has been proven otherwise. I don't know how you can argue that our development was the problem, with zero evidence, especially when every single one of the players continued on the exact same path once leaving. Douglas to AHL. Joshua to ECHL/AHL. Marchment to AHL. Neither Douglas or Joshua have done anything worthwhile since leaving, and it took two more years and hitting UFA status before Marchment did anything worthwhile.

He didn't look braindead before or after coming here.

I doubt you've actually watched him, and I don't really care what he does before or after. Fact is he sucked while here, despite being given every opportunity to succeed. And he has 5 even strength points on the year, so I think you're exaggerating his resurgence because you want a certain type of player so bad that you'll ignore all of their issues.

 

[Razz]

Douglas stalled in his development and got traded for a guy that lost his job due to injury to replace guys on another team that had injuries. That's pro sports.

Fortunately for us, Timmins is working out for us.

 

[Ciao]

It's a bit sad that the over-pumping of Douglas by one or more posters causes the rest of us to correctly point out his shortcomings as a player to more accurately assess the trade, when I'm sure that every single one of us like Curtis Douglas and would like nothing more than for him to succeed.

However, based on what we've seen, he's just not there yet, and will probably never get there.

As so many others have already pointed out, Conor Timmins has probably accomplished more in four games with the Leafs than Douglas ever will in his entire career.

Still rooting for him, though, even with another franchise. It would be awesome to see him actually take off.

 

[Dekes For Days]

It would be nice log jam if we'd keep every guy around that has size and some promise. For what?

So that we can spend years and years pouring time, resources, money, opportunities, contract spots, etc. into longshot players and turning down trades that would be massive wins, in the crazy remote chance that we have the one in a million that will randomly morph into a player that doesn't completely suck in his mid-late 20s, so that we can ooh and ahh at one big hit before he leaves in UFA. That's what REAL teams do.

 

[Canada4Gold]

I was a fan of Joshua after his Sophomore year but you know you're desperate for an example of a success story when you suggest a team waste a contract spot for 4 years to allow a player to develop to get 9 points in 42 games before losing said player to group 6 UFA where he's put up 8 points in 26 games since then. Like that's way too much resources wasted to get a 4th liner for 1 year. That's not a success story, that's correctly moving on.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Maybe?

Do you think it’s a stretch to think he may have a chip on his shoulder?

Maybe?

Do you think it's a stretch to think he may be grateful to a team that gave him a shot when others wouldn't?

 

[Warden of the North]

This team can't identitify and develop toughness. Douglas was a stand out player for the Marlies last year. Like all the others he has kicked out of town, he stands a good chance of performing better some place else. Based on his height, his skill both offensively and defensively and his physicality he stands out as a bit of a unicorn prospect, even if he doesn't hit his ceiling.

In my opinion it is a bad trade because as Dubas typically does, he undervalued the gritty player and overvalued the vanilla depth guy. When we already have the softest team and system in the national hockey league. Nothing like building each line and pairing the same way, without players that utilize body contact.

Douglas hasn't had more then 60 points at any level of hockey.

What exactly is this offensive skill you speak of?

And please don't mention toughness and grit. He watches Kallgren get run over and stood around picking his nose.

 

[ACC1224]

It made little sense not to like this deal when it happened. To still not like it a couple weeks later? That's a little special.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

I don't like the style of play that Dubas wants the Leafs to play. I think it may be conducive to winning in the regular season more so than in the playoffs. For me this was the move that made me hate him. He just does not value physicality at all. He does not hang on to any player that has a bit of fight in him. I'm sick of seeing every prospect or player that is physical get traded for nothing, not get promotions and then get them somewhere else and thrive, get replaced by non contact players. For me I don't have any faith in Dubas to provide me with the type of roster I hope to be able to watch. I just don't see him ever bending on his philosophy.

I just figure you all should temper expectations on Timmins, even though I'm sure it is tempting to show me what time it is. The team is playing well, Timmins had 3 apples in his last game and it's a very small sample of games. It's likely he doesn't maintain that pace and he is sitting once Rielly or Benn are healthy.

The anti-Dubas hive mind strikes again.

"This is the move that made me hate him" and now that it's showing, at the very least, that that emotional knee jerk reaction before seeing Timmins play a single game (and lets be real, without you actually watching Douglas this year in the AHL) was premature, you're doubling down and bending over backwards, moving goal posts and doing mental gymnastics to double down.

 

[Thornbury]

As much as it sucked, Kadri became more of a liability than help for the Leafs. He was a huge part of the Cup run last year, but he wouldn't be here now anyways. The Leafs couldn't give him 7+ million.

For all this talk Marchment gets the guy has scored 29 career goals at the age of 27.

He had an incredibly hot run last year but is just meh with Dallas who is one of the highest svoring teams in the league.

Dubas went and acquired Douglas so this weird fantasy people have that he is opposed to toughness is just nonsense.

The Leafs are mid pack for hits, top 5 for blocked shots, win more board battles than any team in the league.

None of this points to a soft team. Unless you have your own definition of what soft is.

Or have an agenda to slag Dubas any way you can, facts be damned.

He has 4 points and 3 shutouts in 4 games played. That is definitely all him after watching those games. Similar to how Mac Hollowell is undefeated in regulation at the NHL level, guy is a stud. Not good to trust small sample sizes. Like being a -10 with 12 soft penalty minutes in 6 games to start the year.

Give it some time.

You're referencing Timmins' stats from his rehab assignment in the AHL and suggesting that is a solid indicator of his future NHL potential?

 

[deprw]

So that we can spend years and years pouring time, resources, money, opportunities, contract spots, etc. into longshot players and turning down trades that would be massive wins, in the crazy remote chance that we have the one in a million that will randomly morph into a player that doesn't completely suck in his mid-late 20s, so that we can ooh and ahh at one big hit before he leaves in UFA. That's what REAL teams do.

That is what Burke did and Hunter in some extent. We have tried that and we have tons of data. I think Dubas found the file.

This kind of discussions aren't black and white. We don't even know what Douglas did or didn't here. We might have given him some pointers for summer and he failed to deliver. We don't know and never will.

 

[Jeffrey Pedler]

You can only have so many guys on the roster and who does Schenn play over from our current top 6? Schenn is getting caved in in sheltered minutes on a bad team. He's right handed Jordie Benn.

How is getting sheltered minutes? He's playing on the second pair and first unit penalty kill.

 

[kb]

How is getting sheltered minutes? He's playing on the second pair and first unit penalty kill.

And where is his team in the standings? We already have Schenn in Jordie Benn, except that Benn can play both sides.