Are you feeling more or less optimistic about the leafs future since Dubas took over?

[Racer88]

Teetering, but not lost.

Fair enough but in case you hadn’t guessed mine is gone

 

[Martin Skoula]

I hate to say this but Florida is probably better built than Toronto right now. Top 3 in the Atlantic is not a lock whatsoever. Dubas will be a distant memory by this time next year. Get real, Kerfoot is the 5th best forward. Not goin anywhere like that. Is there assets and/or cap space to get a couple of decent forwards? Not to mention his D is really f***ing soft. Lastly, Campbell and who in goal?

Who's Florida's 5th best forward?

Barkov
Huberdeau
Reinhart
Bennett?
Hornqvist/Duclair/Wennberg?

There's one team with guys like Cirelli/Gourde as their 5th best forward, and they just lost an entire third line.

 

[Stephen]

The team played great this year. Even outplayed the Habs in the playoffs more than any other team did.

Do I lose confidence in dubey because matthees and marner turned into pumpkins? Nah.

Dubas has publicly bet it all on Matthews and Marner (and Tavares and Nylander) so by definition your faith in Dubas translates to faith in Matthews and Marner, for better or for worse, Dubas' worse not mine.

 

[hamzarocks]

Who's Florida's 5th best forward?

Barkov
Huberdeau
Reinhart
Bennett?
Hornqvist/Duclair/Wennberg?

There's one team with guys like Cirelli/Gourde as their 5th best forward, and they just lost an entire third line.

Would an objective fan not take Hornqvist/Duclair/Verhaghe over Kerfoot/Engvall/Mikheyev?

Those three are significantly better than our 5th tk 7th best forwards. On top of that

Lundell > Robertson

Denisenko and Tippett = Robertson

They have 3 high end prospects likely to be playing for them next year in the top 9.

The Panthers are a much deeper team than the leafs at forward as of now. Dubas still can make smart moves and add 2 or 3 quality wingers in the next week or so but right now only a homer is taking the leafs top 9 over the Panthers

 

[Stephen]

Who's Florida's 5th best forward?

Barkov
Huberdeau
Reinhart
Bennett?
Hornqvist/Duclair/Wennberg?

There's one team with guys like Cirelli/Gourde as their 5th best forward, and they just lost an entire third line.

Carter Verhaeghe would have been our 5th best scorer and is up there on Florida. He had the same number of points as Yanni Gourde this past season in a dozen fewer games.

 

[DarkKnight]

Dubas has publicly bet it all on Matthews and Marner (and Tavares and Nylander) so by definition your faith in Dubas translates to faith in Matthews and Marner, for better or for worse, Dubas' worse not mine.

He was also in win now mode, with now absolutely nothing but failure to show for it.

 

[Buds17]

Neither. As of this moment, the team is still mired in that first round exit stage not unlike the team he initially inherited.

 

[zeke]

Dubas has publicly bet it all on Matthews and Marner (and Tavares and Nylander) so by definition your faith in Dubas translates to faith in Matthews and Marner, for better or for worse, Dubas' worse not mine.

I'll take a gm that bets on super elite talent every. Single. Time.

 

[Stephen]

He was also in win now mode, with now absolutely nothing but failure to show for it.

The way Dubas talks about all the good people in the room, it sounds a lot to me like Mike Babcock's family man spiel, and I often wonder how genuine it is. But I also wonder if it has something to do with the way the Leafs brand themselves in the recruitment arena and if it's something they need to uphold? "Come to Toronto, we protect you from the glare of the media" kind of thing.

 

[zeke]

Would an objective fan not take Hornqvist/Duclair/Verhaghe over Kerfoot/Engvall/Mikheyev?

Those three are significantly better than our 5th tk 7th best forwards. On top of that

Lundell > Robertson

Denisenko and Tippett = Robertson

They have 3 high end prospects likely to be playing for them next year in the top 9.

The Panthers are a much deeper team than the leafs at forward as of now. Dubas still can make smart moves and add 2 or 3 quality wingers in the next week or so but right now only a homer is taking the leafs top 9 over the Panthers

Weird how in these convos it always gets glossed over that Tavares and Nylander are obviously far better than their Florida counterparts.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Would an objective fan not take Hornqvist/Duclair/Verhaghe over Kerfoot/Engvall/Mikheyev?

Those three are significantly better than our 5th tk 7th best forwards. On top of that

Lundell > Robertson

Denisenko and Tippett = Robertson

They have 3 high end prospects likely to be playing for them next year in the top 9.

The Panthers are a much deeper team than the leafs at forward as of now. Dubas still can make smart moves and add 2 or 3 quality wingers in the next week or so but right now only a homer is taking the leafs top 9 over the Panthers

Surely the gap between Tavares/Nylander and Bennett/Reinhart is bigger than the one between Kerfoot and their 5th best guy. They have a better third line, we have a better top-6. Obviously they will have more depth when we have 10mil in empty cap space sitting until UFA. They have 11 mil to sign Bennett, Reinhart, Gusev, Wallmark and Wennberg and then need to pay Barkov and Verhaeghe next offseason, we're giving them credit for money that hasn't actually been spent yet without giving us the same credit for roughly the same amount of money to fill less expensive spots. This is likely their peak depth year before Barkov costs 2x what he does now and once we spend our money the difference in depth quality will be negligible. If Lundell can step in as a high end 3C/mid range 2C and one of Denisenko/Tippett hits while neither of Robertson/Amirov do in the next 2 years, then yeah I would understand the panic about them overtaking us.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Carter Verhaeghe would have been our 5th best scorer and is up there on Florida. He had the same number of points as Yanni Gourde this past season in a dozen fewer games.

Too bad Lou threw him away for nothing a few years ago. He had a slow development curve but he’s earned where’s he’s gotten.

 

[Stephen]

I'll take a gm that bets on super elite talent every. Single. Time.

I prefer a GM that doesn't frame the process of building a winner as making a "bet."

Prefer the analogy of a craftsman deliberately and methodically constructing something with great care that will last a long time.

 

[zeke]

I prefer a GM that doesn't frame the process of building a winner as making a "bet."

Prefer the analogy of a craftsman deliberately and methodically constructing something with great care that will last a long time.

Yep that's our leafs - a rare team that you don't have to worry about dead capspace now, or ever again. With consistently good drafting to replenish the team going forward.

 

[Stephen]

Too bad Lou threw him away for nothing a few years ago. He had a slow development curve but he’s earned where’s he’s gotten.

That Grabner trade never made a lick of sense.

But too bad the Leafs didn't circle back after the Tampa cup win last year. Also wish we had made a move for Sam Bennett as well.

 

[Canadian Finn]

we are a rare team all right.

uncooked and pink to the core.

 

[hotpaws]

Too bad Lou threw him away for nothing a few years ago. He had a slow development curve but he’s earned where’s he’s gotten.

and we could have signed him as an ufa but Dubie didn't believe he was worth 1m last off season

 

[DarkKnight]

I prefer a GM that doesn't frame the process of building a winner as making a "bet."

Prefer the analogy of a craftsman deliberately and methodically constructing something with great care that will last a long time.

His rationales in the last presser where concerning. I expect a little more pragmatism from a supposed forward thinking GM, apart from we’re staying the course and horrible analogies to other teams. You adjust based on results, I sensed none of that from him, obviously Shanny is “all in” as well. It’s hard to admit mistakes, but in the face of continued failures, it borders on delusional to keep the same course.

But, we are rolling the dice now. Let’s just hope we catch fire, could happen, I’m just not optimistic and anyone who is still all roses and sunshine here isn’t a serious contributor. Partisans.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Ask around. Neutral fans think Dubas is a bad GM. He's bad

 

[hamzarocks]

Surely the gap between Tavares/Nylander and Bennett/Reinhart is bigger than the one between Kerfoot and their 5th best guy. They have a better third line, we have a better top-6. Obviously they will have more depth when we have 10mil in empty cap space sitting until UFA. They have 11 mil to sign Bennett, Reinhart, Gusev, Wallmark and Wennberg and then need to pay Barkov and Verhaeghe next offseason, we're giving them credit for money that hasn't actually been spent yet without giving us the same credit for roughly the same amount of money to fill less expensive spots. This is likely their peak depth year before Barkov costs 2x what he does now and once we spend our money the difference in depth quality will be negligible. If Lundell can step in as a high end 3C/mid range 2C and one of Denisenko/Tippett hits while neither of Robertson/Amirov do in the next 2 years, then yeah I would understand the panic about them overtaking us.

We don't know what level of a player Bennett is. He dominated with the Panthers but it was a very small sample size

For me the rankings im expecting for next year are basically

Huberdeau = Marner
Matthews > Barkov
Tavares > Reinhart
Bennett = Nylander

Bennett should be a 60-70 point player (instead of the 100ish point guy he produced as with 20 in 15) which is similar to what Nylander should produce

Reinhart should be a 60-70 point player whole Tavarws hopefully is around 70-80 so a 10ish point gap.

Marner and huberdeau both around 90-100 points and about equal impact

Matthews about 100ish points with 55 goals and good defensive play. Barkov with 85 points, 35 goals and elite defensive play

The gap in forwards 5-7 will be bigger than gap in production 1-4 between the teams

Verhaeghe is the real Dela and I see him as a 50-60 point player on Barkovs wing while kerfoot as a center is 30 point guy and a winger a 40 point guy

Duclair is a 40-50 point player while Mikheyev a 20-30 point player

Hornqvist a 40-50 point player while Engvall a 15-25 point player

The Panthers are a deeper team and a better offensive team heading into 2021 than the leafs. Your right they will have to make decisions and will lose some of that depth in 2022 but for next year they have a better offensive core and a slightly worse defense than the leafs.

 

[hamzarocks]

Yep that's our leafs - a rare team that you don't have to worry about dead capspace now, or ever again. With consistently good drafting to replenish the team going forward.

So far zero draft picks have replenished the team. Hopefully year 4 Sandin/lilijgren figure it out and become bottom pairing players.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I prefer a GM that doesn't frame the process of building a winner as making a "bet."

Prefer the analogy of a craftsman deliberately and methodically constructing something with great care that will last a long time.

Probably numerous 1,000-post threads here if he said that.

 

[DarkKnight]

we are a rare team all right.

uncooked and pink to the core.

Imagine puffing your chest out for a perennial first round loser. It’s like forgetting this is a sport or something. Oh well, I can’t wait for the expected goals banner raising ceremony in October. Should be a magical, rare event.

 

[zeke]

So far zero draft picks have replenished the team. Hopefully year 4 Sandin/lilijgren figure it out and become bottom pairing players.

Liljegren was picked before dubas was GM.

 

[hamzarocks]

Liljegren was picked before dubas was GM.

He's seen his career development or lack thereof basically under Dubas. Lou was gone after 1 year of Lilijgren hence why I said year 4 and not year 5(which he's in since being drafted)

We need some of these guys to be impact players next year if we want to be a playoff team. Lots of depth has been lost and no external replacements are coming in.