Are you feeling more or less optimistic about the leafs future since Dubas took over?

[18leafsfan18]

You would have to ask the poll creator why they designed it that way.

I'm confused why it matters, never crossed my mind to do that, assumed everyone else has the same opinion, but I could be wrong.

 

[Blowfish]

Gotta be kidding me... I can't believe it's this close?

 

[RoadWarrior]

Gotta be kidding me... I can't believe it's this close?

I'm not surprised. Dubas has some young uber woke fan boys on here.

Their victories are moral victories. Winning in the playoffs is for losers.

 

[New User Name]

All I will say is, anyone that thinks this team has what it takes to beat a team like Tampa, is out to lunch. Just my opinion.

 

[CincoHolio]

Gotta be kidding me... I can't believe it's this close?

It's funny that it is, but I don't see many posts in here defending reasons for being more optimistic. Crickets.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Do you feel like the leafs have a better or worse future compared to when Dubas took over on May 11th, 2018?

I was extremely optimistic when Dubas took over, and even more so when he signed Tavares. I believed the Leafs were going to end the cup drought in 5 years or less. I believed we would sign Matthews and Marner in the summer of 2018, and then Nylander before training camp. I figured nylander would sign for about 6.5 over 6-7 years, Marner at about 8-9 over 6-8 years, and Matthews to 10-11 million over 7-8 years. Many, many on here were saying the exact same things, with a large percentage of posters even suggesting lower than that.

After losing to Boston in 2019 again in the first round and then this season’s less than stellar play, I am much less convinced that we will end the cup drought. I hope I am dead wrong.

I thought the opposite when they signed Tavares. First of all, it wasn't the teams biggest need at the time (defenders were). I had this gut feeling that it wouldn't end well although that wasn't a popular thought at the time (some times you need to "lay low" on this forum). I was pretty sure that it would be motivation and incentive for our young ELC stars to make big contract demands, which in fact did happen. After all, that is basic human nature and how it works in pretty well every work place environment. So, the lack of vision & foresight on this subject seemed stunningly dumb and naive.

On the 2nd bolded part, that is certainly true. I remember saying that Marner would ask and get around $10.5 m per year. There were lots of push back and critical responses to my posts.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

More.

Dubas has done a great job addressing holes and fixing messes left behind by the previous regime.

Anyone thinking this team would be in better shape under Lou needs to look at the disastrous cap situation he's brought upon the Islanders in record time. His penchant for committing huge dollars to middling talent is simply astounding.

All this and he still needs to get Barzal signed this offseason.

Why does Lou Lams disastrous cap make you feel more optimistic? If the Isles has a good cap situation would you feel less optimistic?

I addressed why I feel optimistic in the 1st half of my post. Perhaps you should reread it.

Sure, I get the idea about Lou and handing out contracts.

But, there is false equivalency here. The Leafs could have gotten rid of Lou and hired someone else to be GM other than Dubas. I hope people are not suggesting that it had to be Dubas if Lou was gone. The optics of that idea are odd and perhaps (can't say for sure) narrative driven.

 

[ACC1224]

Sure, I get the idea about Lou and handing out contracts.

But, there is false equivalency here. The Leafs could have gotten rid of Lou and hired someone else to be GM other than Dubas. I hope people are not suggesting that it had to be Dubas if Lou was gone.

I didn't want Lou, Hunter or Dubas.
IMO, it was always going to be Dubas from the moment he was hired.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I thought the opposite when they signed Tavares. First of all, it wasn't the teams biggest need at the time (defenders were).

Center was actually a pretty significant need. Our entire organizational depth at the position was essentially Matthews, Kadri, and Gauthier, which is bad even before losing Kadri every year in the playoffs. Our offense was also taking a significant hit that offseason with multiple UFA losses. We've been able to massively improve our defense, even with Tavares.

I was pretty sure that it would be motivation and incentive for our young ELC stars to make big contract demands, which in fact did happen.

The Tavares UFA contract (which was actually a discount on his offers) had no impact on the RFA contracts.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I didn't want Lou, Hunter or Dubas.
IMO, it was always going to be Dubas from the moment he was hired.

Ya, its kind of a funny argument or dichotomy to suggest that we only had limited choices and alternatives for anything - GM, coach whatever.

We are one of the richest teams in this professional sports league. We do have the resources financially, and we should have the resources at the highest and most senior management levels. To suggest anything else is not good enough and is excuse making imho.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Center was actually a pretty significant need. Our entire organizational depth at the position was essentially Matthews, Kadri, and Gauthier, which is bad even before losing Kadri every year in the playoffs. Our offense was also taking a significant hit that offseason with multiple UFA losses.

The Tavares UFA contract (which was actually a discount on his offers) had no impact on the RFA contracts.

Whatever. Not going to beat my head against the wall arguing with you. Cheers.

 

[Brobust]

Center was actually a pretty significant need. Our entire organizational depth at the position was essentially Matthews, Kadri, and Gauthier, which is bad even before losing Kadri every year in the playoffs. Our offense was also taking a significant hit that offseason with multiple UFA losses.

The Tavares UFA contract (which was actually a discount on his offers) had no impact on the RFA contracts.

Many people have said the opposite. He set the baseline. He also gave Marner a reason to bet on himself even further.

But, if the leafs didn't go after Tavares and prioritized the extensions, they'd have small discounts but no Tavares.

Ultimately, the right choice was made.

 

[DuklaNation]

Seth Jones was available and not that expensive either. Now he's locked up for another 8 yrs on Chicago. Dubas doing nothing and missed a great opportunity. Should have fired him when they had the chance. Just brutal for Leafs fans.

 

[Brobust]

Seth Jones was available and not that expensive either. Now he's locked up for another 8 yrs on Chicago. Dubas doing nothing and missed a great opportunity. Should have fired him when they had the chance. Just brutal for Leafs fans.

A top 10 prospect, 12th overall and a future likely lottery pick?

Are you for real?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Many people have said the opposite.

Many people are wrong. UFA contracts have nothing to do with RFA contracts. They are not comparables. Also, it's quite illogical to suggest that the thing that caused a "hardline contract stance" was Tavares taking a pretty sizeable discount on his contract to play in Toronto.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Seth Jones was available and not that expensive either. Now he's locked up for another 8 yrs on Chicago. Dubas doing nothing and missed a great opportunity.

Seth Jones was insanely expensive to acquire, and got a massively overvalued extension.

 

[justashadowof]

The high level of the talent that was inherited masks what an unmitigated disaster this has become in terms of achieving Cup contention. It's a slow train derailment where the train still appears to be heading in right direction. Naïve world view on top of smart boy intelligence minus the introspection to self-diagnose things like intellectual limitations and confirmation bias leading to the embrace of fads and quackery.

 

[DuklaNation]

A top 10 prospect, 12th overall and a future likely lottery pick?

Are you for real?

2021 is a weak draft. Boqvist is not a top 10 prospect anymore. Future lottery pick? LOL. You're getting that 25 minute all purpose dman that EVERY team needs. You pay that price every time.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Gotta be kidding me... I can't believe it's this close?

I don't get it either. It's inarguable that the team is in worse shape now than when he took over. You can debate why that is but you can't debate the fact the team is worse. I can't see any reason at all for optimism right now. And I'm still demoralized over the epic choke against the hated Montreal Canadiens. Unforgivable. Anyone feeling optimism right now must be psychotic.

 

[ACC1224]

I don't get it either. It's inarguable that the team is in worse shape now than when he took over. You can debate why that is but you can't debate the fact the team is worse. I can't see any reason at all for optimism right now. And I'm still demoralized over the epic choke against the hated Montreal Canadiens. Unforgivable. Anyone feeling optimism right now must be psychotic.

No where to go but up?

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Many people have said the opposite. He set the baseline. He also gave Marner a reason to bet on himself even further.

But, if the leafs didn't go after Tavares and prioritized the extensions, they'd have small discounts but no Tavares.

Ultimately, the right choice was made.

Yeah, every team in the league would have made the Tavares deal. I always justified it knowing the worst case scenario was you got Tavares instead of Nylander (for example) plus get picks and prospects along with that scenario. No matter how you slice it, getting Tavares was a good move. What's happened since is the problem.

 

[PromisedLand]

Posted this in another thread.

Atlantic Division:

• Boston signs Hall for cheap and still has plenty of capspace
• Florida is trading for Reinhart; that organization under Coach Q is going to be solid
• Montreal will have plenty of capsape to bolster their roster with prospects/picks and the SCF trip AND Weber going on LTIR
• Tampa is Tampa even will selling they will have a solid roster with a 1C (point), 1D (Hedman), 1G (Vasy) with premium wingers (Stamkos, Kucherov)
• Ottawa is a team on the upswing

Sabres are the only one that suck.

And the Leafs can't do F all because not a lot of cap space; no prospects/picks, no playoff success to show and next season looking like a wash

It sometimes really ticks me off that people have started blaming the players while completely absolving dubas; its not like dubas was the one that created the cap crunch; its not like dubas is the one that let the ufas keep walking and then traded the farm and overestimated this team's ability to do things in the playoffs. Its not like dubas is the one who orchestrated the cap structure such that quality depth cannot be had since his high AAV guys cannot carry a dud and make that dud productive to compensate for not having quality depth.

someone explain to me how is it that dubas fans always find a way to absolve him of everything? is this a Toronto Maple Leafs forum or the Kyle Dubas forum? I mean seriously!

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

The high level of the talent that was inherited masks what an unmitigated disaster this has become in terms of achieving Cup contention. It's a slow train derailment where the train still appears to be heading in right direction. Naïve world view on top of smart boy intelligence minus the introspection to self-diagnose things like intellectual limitations and confirmation bias leading to the embrace of fads and quackery.

There's something more to it that some here will take offense to but no matter. Millenialism is ruining everything. I've watched this happen for a decade now all over the place where millenials think they know better than people with decades of experience about everything even when they haven't put in any time or effort to get to where they are. They replace systems that have worked forever with new ones that are kludgy and inefficient. Basically, almost everything I see around me is broken these days over this attitude and it's a major problem. Dubas is just one example.

Sorry millenials, it's true. <insert cloud meme here>

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

No where to go but up?

I wish, I'd feel way better if I thought this was the bottom.

 

[justashadowof]

There's something more to it that some here will take offense to but no matter. Millenialism is ruining everything. I've watched this happen for a decade now all over the place where millenials think they know better than people with decades of experience about everything even when they haven't put in any time or effort to get to where they are. They replace systems that have worked forever with new ones that are kludgy and inefficient. Basically, almost everything I see around me is broken these days over this attitude and it's a major problem. Dubas is just one example.

Sorry millenials, it's true. <insert cloud meme here>

There's nothing new about the younger generation believing itself to be more moral and have more wisdom than previous generations. What's new is that we're seeing the older generations ceding to this generation of phony pedants who assume they have all knowledge in the world because they can google it on their phones.