Are you feeling more or less optimistic about the leafs future since Dubas took over?

[PromisedLand]

There's something more to it that some here will take offense to but no matter. Millenialism is ruining everything. I've watched this happen for a decade now all over the place where millenials think they know better than people with decades of experience about everything even when they haven't put in any time or effort to get to where they are. They replace systems that have worked forever with new ones that are kludgy and inefficient. Basically, almost everything I see around me is broken these days over this attitude and it's a major problem. Dubas is just one example.

Sorry millenials, it's true. <insert cloud meme here>

I agree with the sense of what you are saying but don't agree completely. I am a millennial myself and don't agree with what dubas has done/doing.

The only difference is that I have had to work my ass off whether it be school, or work to get what little I have and things haven't exactly fallen on the silver platter for me so I don't have a sense of entitlement or think I am smarter than everybody. Also, my upbringing was relatively different. When my fellow millennials were partying/travelling during summer vacations; my family said if I want to buy some shit I gotta work for it; and get a job; I wasn't handed anything.

I am sure there are other millennials like me.

Basically, what I am trying to say is that I understand your sentiment but don't think it applies to every millennial out there

 

[RoadWarrior]

Seth Jones was insanely expensive to acquire, and got a massively overvalued extension.

Agreed. $9.5M AAV was overpayment.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

2021 is a weak draft. Boqvist is not a top 10 prospect anymore. Future lottery pick? LOL. You're getting that 25 minute all purpose dman that EVERY team needs. You pay that price every time.

No, you don't. Jones has been trash for 2 seasons now and he will be getting paid like he is an elite Dman.

 

[PromisedLand]

Agreed. $9.5M AAV was overpayment.

Jones still carries his current cap hit for this upcoming season. Then there is an overlap of Jone's 9.5 with both Kane and Toews for onlyone year and then both Kane/Toews are off the cap (21 million off the cap); which can be used for other things.

No 1 D-men are hard to find; hawks saw the opportunity and went for it. Given the timelines and structure of contracts for the hawks it isn't a massive overpayment IMO.

Now before you start throwing the analytics at me; the context is that Jones played for Torts; and Tort's system isn't designed to have "fancy analytics" and CBJ's team last season was ass. Jones on a team with up tempo system and talent on the roster is a different D-man than he was with CBJ.

 

[Brobust]

Many people are wrong. UFA contracts have nothing to do with RFA contracts. They are not comparables. Also, it's quite illogical to suggest that the thing that caused a "hardline contract stance" was Tavares taking a pretty sizeable discount on his contract to play in Toronto.

It's not UFA to RFA comparisons. It's teammate to teammate. Like Gaudreau and Giordano.

Why would Matthews take less when he thinks he's the 1C and why would Marner take less when he thinks he's right up there for best player on the team?

By the way, I'm not pointing to this as a mistake. It's no big deal if the cap keeps going up. Which is something you could just assume three years ago.

 

[Dekes For Days]

It's not UFA to RFA comparisons.

That's exactly what it is. UFA contracts on a team have nothing to do with post-ELC negotiations. The only comparables used are other post-ELC contracts.

 

[hamzarocks]

It's impossible for an objective leaf fan to be more optimistic since dubas took over. Three straight years of failure and 3 seasons of JTs contract and good years being wasted does not encourage confidence in this organization

Last season was supposed to be the year things turned around and we overcame our playoff woes.

We are capped out, our young prospects/players haven't shown they are reliable at the NHL level , our star players fold come the playoffs and our 1D is a pending UFA in a year with no extension of yet.

3 straight losses after acquiring the biggest UFA name perhaps ever. We've moved out all our internally developed supporting depth players either via trade or letting them walk (Brown, kap, AJ, Kadri, Hyman, Gardiner).

I'd be fine with that if we had actually found good replacements for these players but we have had tk rely on guys like kerfoot, Engvall, Mikheyev, and a series of other vets to try and provide us with the lost depth from going all in on signing the big 4.

There doesn't seem to be a plan for next year outside of hoping to God that the players can improve and show up in the playoffs. Dubas came across as unconfident and nervous in his latest presser, which is usually not the case with him.

 

[Stephen]

Like JD Bunkis mentioned on Leafs Hour, I find the last few rounds of press conferences by Dubas to be a little perplexing and worrisome. I find the "Stand By Me" message and insistence that their core group is full of great individuals to be unnecessary and emotionally charged. I don't find Dubas' comments about betting everything on them to be a reassuring message. After all, all I'm looking for is good stewardship of the franchise and solutions forward, not someone staking their career on hunch. I thought the repeated comments about taking a loss on moving the Big 4 at the season ender and at the expansion draft to be unusual since there's no real reporting that they've gone down any sort of process. It feels self defeatist and goes against the other comments about exploring all avenues to get better.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Like JD Bunkis mentioned on Leafs Hour, I find the last few rounds of press conferences by Dubas to be a little perplexing and worrisome. I find the "Stand By Me" message and insistence that their core group is full of great individuals to be unnecessary and emotionally charged. I don't find Dubas' comments about betting everything on them to be a reassuring message. After all, all I'm looking for is good stewardship of the franchise and solutions forward, not someone staking their career on hunch. I thought the repeated comments about taking a loss on moving the Big 4 at the season ender and at the expansion draft to be unusual since there's no real reporting that they've gone down any sort of process. It feels self defeatist and goes against the other comments about exploring all avenues to get better.

Yup no exploring, won't even entertain any adjustment to the core. Few picks this year, lots of holes but a guy with no.previous experience sticking to what he thinks could win. Despite missing the killer instinct, being passive, not standing up for each other, not willing to sacrifice and crickets on the bench until Wayne and Joe were there. 2 more guys walk for nothing and possibly another next year in Rielly.
Or he just doesn't know how or is afraid to try and navigate out of it.

 

[ottomaddox]

No, you don't. Jones has been trash for 2 seasons now and he will be getting paid like he is an elite Dman.

Trash?

Perhaps there's a better description. 2 seasons? I watched him play pretty great vs. Toronto in the play-in series.

 

[ottomaddox]

Like JD Bunkis mentioned on Leafs Hour, I find the last few rounds of press conferences by Dubas to be a little perplexing and worrisome. I find the "Stand By Me" message and insistence that their core group is full of great individuals to be unnecessary and emotionally charged. I don't find Dubas' comments about betting everything on them to be a reassuring message. After all, all I'm looking for is good stewardship of the franchise and solutions forward, not someone staking their career on hunch. I thought the repeated comments about taking a loss on moving the Big 4 at the season ender and at the expansion draft to be unusual since there's no real reporting that they've gone down any sort of process. It feels self defeatist and goes against the other comments about exploring all avenues to get better.

Agreed. His quote about "winning a trade" was curious too. You can't possibly "win" a trade using Marner, but you can sure have more cap space for depth. Let's not forget that when Tavares went down vs. MTL the depth vanished some how.

 

[Racer88]

I’m hearing about trades and moves by some GM’s to try and improve their team…….has Dubas done anything yet or is he really going to repeat with the basically same bunch

 

[ShaneFalco]

Agreed. His quote about "winning a trade" was curious too. You can't possibly "win" a trade using Marner, but you can sure have more cap space for depth. Let's not forget that when Tavares went down vs. MTL the depth vanished some how.

Thing is if you're not even going to listen how can you even say that?

 

[zeke]

I could see losing faith in Matthews and Marner, but I don't see why anyone would lose faith in Dubey. Leafs were a very good team this year, and one of the only teams that had no bad contracts that they could safely expose to Seattle without worrying about them drafting.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I could see losing faith in Matthews and Marner, but I don't see why anyone would lose faith in Dubey. Leafs were a very good team this year, and one of the only teams that had no bad contracts that they could safely expose to Seattle without worrying about them drafting.

He overpaid Marner by quite a bit and gave in to his every demand - the landscape has changed, Marner has been a playoff disappointment ( I give AM slack here bc they just take away the pass to.him and dare MM to shoot. That's on Keefe too). But now he won't, like any GM should, be open to at least seeing what's out there. It's too easy to say we lose a Marner trade.
And Simmonds for 2 years? Trading picks for yet another failed year. Hyman walks, Andersen walks, Rielly - well we'll see. Just betting it all on this core is arrogant. Then he and Shanny talk about all the pieces the core are missing but somehow believe it will just change.
He's done some good things but his inability or unwillingness to even consider changing directions - he should be fired

 

[Suntouchable13]

I hate to say this but Florida is probably better built than Toronto right now. Top 3 in the Atlantic is not a lock whatsoever. Dubas will be a distant memory by this time next year. Get real, Kerfoot is the 5th best forward. Not goin anywhere like that. Is there assets and/or cap space to get a couple of decent forwards? Not to mention his D is really f***ing soft. Lastly, Campbell and who in goal?

 

[ottomaddox]

I could see losing faith in Matthews and Marner, but I don't see why anyone would lose faith in Dubey. Leafs were a very good team this year, and one of the only teams that had no bad contracts that they could safely expose to Seattle without worrying about them drafting.

Expand on this a little. "No bad contracts"?

I would say that Tavares and Marner are hovering close.

I mean. Kerfoot is also very close in that regard.

Not bad, but perhaps not ideal?

 

[TheTotalPackage]

I could see losing faith in Matthews and Marner, but I don't see why anyone would lose faith in Dubey. Leafs were a very good team this year, and one of the only teams that had no bad contracts that they could safely expose to Seattle without worrying about them drafting.

I know Dubey is your guy and all, but the measures you go to absolve him from any failures of this team is perplexing.

The Leafs are a great team that should be a lot better (results wise [in the playoffs]). Does the blame fall squarely on Dubas's shoulders? No. But he's the one who tied up half the cap to four guys (I know no one predicted a flat cap, but still...every other team faces the same parameters). He's the one who handpicked his own coach who has the team showing the exact same flaws as when Babcock was coach of the team, but just way more player friendly. He's the one hoping that bargain basement shopping with the likes of Thornton, Simmonds and Bogosian due to the cap constraints he created is going to propel this team to the next level.

Dubas is an incredible human being who the Leafs are lucky to have representing the franchise. But as a young prodigy GM he has touted to be, he's come up short. I don't think he should be fired -- yet -- because GMs need and quite frankly deserve more than 3 to 5 years to see their vision through. Let's just temper the praise of him though, because this team has only gotten better on paper yet regressed in the standings.

 

[Mancunian]

With the last media availability, the Leafs need to fire Dubas now or we waste another year of Auston Matthews and walk him a step closer to leaving the Leafs.

 

[zeke]

Expand on this a little. "No bad contracts"?

I would say that Tavares and Marner are hovering close.

I mean. Kerfoot is also very close in that regard.

Not bad, but perhaps not ideal?

Seattle would have jumped at the chance to pick those contracts.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Expand on this a little. "No bad contracts"?

I would say that Tavares and Marner are hovering close.

I mean. Kerfoot is also very close in that regard.

Not bad, but perhaps not ideal?

You could easily trade Kerfoot and Marner, though getting fair value for Marner would be a challenge.

 

[zeke]

I know Dubey is your guy and all, but the measures you go to absolve him from any failures of this team is perplexing.

The Leafs are a great team that should be a lot better (results wise [in the playoffs]). Does the blame fall squarely on Dubas's shoulders? No. But he's the one who tied up half the cap to four guys (I know no one predicted a flat cap, but still...every other team faces the same parameters). He's the one who handpicked his own coach who has the team showing the exact same flaws as when Babcock was coach of the team, but just way more player friendly. He's the one hoping that bargain basement shopping with the likes of Thornton, Simmonds and Bogosian due to the cap constraints he created is going to propel this team to the next level.

Dubas is an incredible human being who the Leafs are lucky to have representing the franchise. But as a young prodigy GM he has touted to be, he's come up short. I don't think he should be fired -- yet -- because GMs need and quite frankly deserve more than 3 to 5 years to see their vision through. Let's just temper the praise of him though, because this team has only gotten better on paper yet regressed in the standings.

The team played great this year. Even outplayed the Habs in the playoffs more than any other team did.

Do I lose confidence in dubey because matthees and marner turned into pumpkins? Nah.

 

[Racer88]

Yup no exploring, won't even entertain any adjustment to the core. Few picks this year, lots of holes but a guy with no.previous experience sticking to what he thinks could win. Despite missing the killer instinct, being passive, not standing up for each other, not willing to sacrifice and crickets on the bench until Wayne and Joe were there. 2 more guys walk for nothing and possibly another next year in Rielly.
Or he just doesn't know how or is afraid to try and navigate out of it.

When you think about it we are really in a mess and our GM and President think that these guys are miraculously going to grow a work ethic and develope the commitment to do what ever it takes to persevere when the games matter and especially the playoffs.

 

[Racer88]

The team played great this year. Even outplayed the Habs in the playoffs more than any other team did.

Do I lose confidence in dubey because matthees and marner turned into pumpkins? Nah.

How is your faith in Marner and Matthews?

 

[zeke]

How is your faith in Marner and Matthews?

Teetering, but not lost.