Are you disappointed that they are sticking with the core?
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Bomber0104
Registered User
So again, unless you're comparing apples to apples then a straight comparison of points/points-per-game/points-per-60 isn't going to tell you what you think it will.
I don't believe Eichel's linemates to date compare to Matthews and Tavares, no.
Nor do I think a scoring-winger role commands the same on-ice responsibility as a top-line centre does.
No. A little (okay, a lot) frustrated but honestly I think there are way worse choices to be made than giving up on Mitch Marner. I can understand wanting to bet on that kind of talent figuring it out. It might not be the choice that I would have made, but I believe that it makes sense. I hope to hell that Dubas is right on this.
nuck
Registered User
- Aug 18, 2005
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I believe Kyle was able to sell Shanny on his vision and that led to the subsequent management changes. Then, lacking any real management experience BS got on board with the Dubaplan and they presented things to the MLSE Board as their joint vision for the Leafs going forward. Shanahan has painted himself into a corner and will go down with the ship along with Dubas, trying all the while to get more time from MLSE for both of them. He has gone too far to take corrective measures and the only thing that can save him is if the Board reaches past him to punt the GM or if they finally do something next playoff.
I don't think it is selling on talent to move Marner as the return would be substantial along with some cap relief. It is really whether a "big 4" setup is compatible with a hard cap environment. Three of the four remaining teams are clubs that play strong systems and roll lines rather than running on pure star power although Vegas with Stone and Pie is not identical to the Habs. TB has managed to beat the flat cap this year through skilled manipulation so the bottom of their lineup isn't from a garage sale. They don't have the cap as an excuse if the Isles dump them but almost every other team is going to be in the same boat as the Leafs where they can't quite compete because of the lack of value contracts.
The flat cap exacerbates things but you can see it coming with the death of the "middle class" deals and the NLPA being walked right into that by battling to support the top 10% of salaries at the expense of the majority of their members. If the Leafs had signed the big 3 for remotely team friendly deals and had not added Tavares I think it could have easily worked although I expect Dubas would have used up all the cap space on other deals and they would still have Keefe. Maybe even Keefe could win if they had Pietrangelo too
Anyways, the big 4 kind of represents feudal society where a tiny elite has almost everything and the serfs get by on scraps. That failed too.
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"Vegas" doesn't actually set their odds based completely on the real probabilities of an event occurring. If "Vegas" making the Leafs a lower odds favorite doesn't necessarily mean they believe they have (for example) the third best chance of winning the cup.
zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
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That Dom guy from the athletic said the chances of the Leafs losing in the first in every one of the last 5 years was 1.4% so this team's "achievements" are indeed noteworthy!
Bottom line, no matter how much the team embarrasses itself by playing it's worst when it all comes down to one deciding game, you'll be here making a complete fool of yourself by telling everyone how good the team is.
Looking forward to thousands of posts from you between now and our next playoff game telling us what a great team we have, how Dubas is your soulmate and everything he does is pure genius.
Bottom line, they'll be one of the odds on favorites again next year, and every year they're together.
And vegas will agree.
socko
Registered User
Arizona would be perfect for Mitch. They don't give a hoot about the salary cap because they can only afford the cap floor. Marner is already paid his ridiculous overpay. They won't care if he's a playoff no show because they probably won't make it anyway and if they do their fans don't really care anyway as proven by the abysmal attendance record.
zeke
The Dube Abides
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Given the narratives around these leafs, why would you think vegas would think theyd be overrated instead of underrated?
Aashir
Backcheck, Forecheck, Paycheque
- Apr 19, 2019
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What favourite gets out in the first round every year, apart from the favourite team to choke
leafs have no dogs. I would kill for a Wendell Clark clone on this team. dubas thought he was getting a great leader in JT but instead we got the big mute. Tavares is like that neighbor that mows his grass for 5 hours a day and when you see him and have to make conversation you're dying inside because of how excruitiatingly boring the conversation is. I bet the guy really sits there and talks about fertilizing for 3 hours while everyone tilts their heads. Of course they made him captain though because he is a nice person. It's just so lame this team. They're soft and boring, zero grit.
Bluelines
Python FTW!
- Nov 17, 2013
- 12,349
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Take my wife ...please ...
Half Italian / half Irish and 100% a force of nature... breeding those two gene pools is like breeding a wolverine with a piranha ... but she's the best thing to ever happen to me.
I outweigh her by 100lbs but good money is on her to win a cage fight ...
Probably for same reason there's a 20 year waiting list for the highest priced tickets in the league to watch a team that hasn't won a playoff round in 17 years and a Cup in 54.
Bomber0104
Registered User
"The Leafs are a great team and will win next year because there's droves of very special people betting on them in Vegas."
Sound argument.
Notsince67
Papi and the Lamplighters
- Apr 27, 2018
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I was a big fan of Wendel. Even back then, some people loved to attack him with homophobic slurs by calling him Wendy. Some people....
Notsince67
Papi and the Lamplighters
- Apr 27, 2018
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Lol you can’t be serious can you? Your comparing what marner has played with compared to Eichel?!
paul marner everyone!
Lol just going by stats. Watch the games dude. They rnt in the same universe as a player. Anyone who has seen them both play can spot the differences in 10 seconds
Are you disappointed that they are sticking with the core?
I'll wait to see if that's actually the case. As much as they 'want' to keep a core, players become available at different points that you weren't expecting.
Am I disappointed if they keep the 'core 4' and somehow improve on it? No. Am I disappointed if they do NOTHING and come back with the same group? Yes - I imagine so given the nature of their historic defeats in the playoffs.
And before I hear about how they have no cap space, or can't do this because of that, I hear it every year for everything and they somehow make something happen that people were saying wasn't so. I'm content with waiting and evaluating their position come September. It'll be a busy summer for the league, and I see no reason why the Leafs couldn't be apart of that if they so choose.
I'll wait to see if that's actually the case. As much as they 'want' to keep a core, players become available at different points that you weren't expecting.
Am I disappointed if they keep the 'core 4' and somehow improve on it? No. Am I disappointed if they do NOTHING and come back with the same group? Yes - I imagine so given the nature of their historic defeats in the playoffs.
And before I hear about how they have no cap space, or can't do this because of that, I hear it every year for everything and they somehow make something happen that people were saying wasn't so. I'm content with waiting and evaluating their position come September. It'll be a busy summer for the league, and I see no reason why the Leafs couldn't be apart of that if they so choose.
weems
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Notsince67
Papi and the Lamplighters
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Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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I don’t know about you, but using Vegas as the appeal to authority to establish the Leafs contending feels incredibly depressing.
zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
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Take a look around HF or listen tl the radio and tell me how many leafs fans would bet on the leafs.
Trapper
Registered User
- Nov 21, 2013
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I like Tavares, he has good skill like the other 3, but watching him closely, he has no overdrive button. None of the core does.
Very little emotion. All these 4 together just lack any of the bite or next level gear required for the playoffs. Individual skill does not win and this core will not IMO. It must change.
zeke
The Dube Abides
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