Are you disappointed that they are sticking with the core?

[Mickey Marner]

Yes, but I'm more disappointed that we're sticking with out management that's sticking with our core.

 

[Racer88]

No patience when its comes to this fan base, teams like Washington, Tampa and San Jose, Anaheim, Nashville try for years with the same core and hope you can win the cup and sometimes you don't, you don't trade proven talent for mystery boxes and lesser talent, You try to build around that talent. After 5 years, you guys are done with the current core lmfao.

Then what blows me away is people think the first two years of making the playoffs with the current core we stood a chance when our Defense core was:

2017 captials: Zaitzev, Rielly, Polak, Marincin, Hainsy, Gardnier <Really think thats a winning d-core?
2018 boston: Dermott / Gardiner / Hainsey / Zaitzev / Rielly / Muzzin < Better, still had Haisey/Gardiner / Zaitzev.

So with a legit good roster, we have had 3 years of trying to legit win the cup and we are ready to call it quits.

If the Leafs had shown any sort of improvement in the playoffs over those 3-5 years we wouldn’t be calling for change.
Reality is they have actually performed worse the last few playoffs.

 

[Bluelines]

I think we have all seen it, really talented offensive stars that go their whole career and never get a shot at the cup. It not surprising to me that this team , who has hung its cap , on 4 offensive stars and they can't make it past the 1st round.

Kyle and Co. are equating elite regular season offensive talent with how to win the cup. yes you need elite talent to make it but offence, offence, offence, offence should not be your main ingredient.

Not a single team with a scorer in the top 10 made it to the final four

RK	PLAYER	TEAM
1	Connor McDavid, C	EDM
2	Leon Draisaitl, C	EDM
3	Brad Marchand, C	BOS
4	Mitchell Marner, C	TOR
5	Auston Matthews, C	TOR
	Mikko Rantanen, RW	COL
	Patrick Kane, RW	CHI
8	Nathan MacKinnon, C	COL
9	Mark Scheifele, C	WPG
10	Sidney Crosby, C	PIT

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

One team with a player in the top 20 in scoring made it to the final four:

11	Mark Stone, RW	VGS
	Jonathan Huberdeau, LW	FLA
13	Aleksander Barkov, C	FLA
	David Perron, LW	STL
	Artemi Panarin, LW	NYR
16	Sebastian Aho, RW	CAR
	Jake Guentzel, LW	PIT
18	Alex DeBrincat, LW	CHI
19	Ryan O'Reilly, C	STL
20	Nicklas Backstrom, C	WSH

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

One team had two scorers in the top 30 and made it to the final four

21	Gabriel Landeskog, LW	COL
22	Kirill Kaprizov, LW	MIN
	Joe Pavelski, C	DAL
22	Max Pacioretty, LW	VGS
25	Kyle Connor, LW	WPG
	Mika Zibanejad, C	NYR
	John Tavares, C	TOR
	Anze Kopitar, C	LA
29	Brock Boeser, RW	VAN
	Evander Kane, LW	SJ
	Johnny Gaudreau, LW	CGY
	Ryan Strome, C	NYR

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

A second team had a scorer in the top 40 that made it to the final four

33	Patrice Bergeron, C	BOS
33	Brayden Point, C	TB
	Pavel Buchnevich, RW	NYR
	David Pastrnak, RW	BOS
	Tyson Barrie, D	EDM
38	Elias Lindholm, C	CGY
	Adam Fox, D	NYR
40	Nikolaj Ehlers, LW	WPG

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

NYI and Montreal had no players in the top 40, NYI Barzal (44th), Mtl Toffoli (48th). Toronto's 4th best scorer, Nylander had 2 less points than Toffoli and three less than Barzal, Nylander with less games played.

So the question remains, if two teams with no scorers in the top 40 can make the 3rd round and a team with basically 4 players with points equal to or better than their (NYI, Mtl) best scorer can't make it past the 1st round. Is elite regular season scoring talent the be all and end all of how to win the cup?

 

[Bluelines]

Bottom line, they'll be one of the odds on favorites again next year, and every year.

And vegas will agree.

If one thing we can say is true, people in the middle of a desert are the experts on hockey ...

 

[Bluelines]

he wouldn't be the first player dealt with an nmc and if Dubas wants to save his job he should working on getting JT to give a list of teams he accept a trade t0o

Kyle does not have the stones to do that...

 

[Go4soda]

Read a tweet from an insider that said something along the lines of the Leafs management being sincere when they say the core in unavailable.

Wow. I’m not for blowing it up by any means, but I think it’s vital that a core piece is moved at this point. How many 1st rd collapses do we need before we insulate this group?

 

[rumman]

Ironically enough we got an email yesterday that our 25% subscription payment is due July 31.

How’d that feel?

 

[rumman]

Marner or Tavares should go

Honestly if you move any of the 2 of the 4 you’d be going a long way to fixing the problems. I don’t care which two, all scenarios help fix the problem.

 

[Welsh Maple Leaf]

Honestly if you move any of the 2 of the 4 you’d be going a long way to fixing the problems. I don’t care which two, all scenarios help fix the problem.

Imagine moving Matthews one of the best players in the league.

 

[rumman]

Imagine moving Matthews one of the best players in the league.

Imagine the return?

 

[janesy12]

I don't see how they don't even look into moving Marner.
It's not working. 5 years of the same, Tavares and Matthews aren't being moved.

So you have to decide between Nylander or Marner.
Is Marner really a $4 million improvement over Nylander?

Honestly I'd be calling Buffalo and asking about Marner+ for Eichel.
How about trying to work out something with Philly for Konecny & Sanheim or something of that nature.

This divisions get harder next year, you can't expect to lose Hyman, shuffle around the bottom 6 and expect a different result.
In 5 years the coaching staff, bottom 6, and the blueline has been completely revamped.

Something has to give.

Tavares has only played in 2 of the last 3 playoff series.
You don't move the Rocket Richard winner.

So, Nylander at $6.9, or Marner at $10.9.
One of them has to move. (Marner quite easily for me)

 

[ACC1224]

How’d that feel?

Like life is coming back around.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I am sure if something comes a long that Dubas think will be best for the team, a core player will be traded.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don't see how they don't even look into moving Marner.
It's not working. 5 years of the same, Tavares and Matthews aren't being moved.

So you have to decide between Nylander or Marner.
Is Marner really a $4 million improvement over Nylander?

Honestly I'd be calling Buffalo and asking about Marner+ for Eichel.
How about trying to work out something with Philly for Konecny & Sanheim or something of that nature.

This divisions get harder next year, you can't expect to lose Hyman, shuffle around the bottom 6 and expect a different result.
In 5 years the coaching staff, bottom 6, and the blueline has been completely revamped.

Something has to give.

Tavares has only played in 2 of the last 3 playoff series.
You don't move the Rocket Richard winner.

So, Nylander at $6.9, or Marner at $10.9.
One of them has to move. (Marner quite easily for me)

This. If they're not even considering the idea of moving Marner then this off-season is a complete failure before it's even begun and the same can be said for next season.

 

[Arzak]

Wish you would go away until then

You should disclose if you are Marner's papa. Coincidence you joined HFboard when he started negotiations ? 11k messages to pump up sonny


Wishing fans to leave your son's team is sad papa.

 

[Mess]

Yes, but I'm more disappointed that we're sticking with our management that's sticking with our core.

I think that is fair.

Dubas and Keefe and Leafs cap management, and coaching is certainly a bigger cause of Leafs problems. Swapping around a few depth pieces around the edges is not going solve what ails the Leafs.

You're only as strong as your weakest link and Leafs management is clearly that.

The irony of the salary cap era is that management is not included in cost consideration so you would think a fortune 500 company would freely invest $$ to bring in the best and most experienced successful management team to run their operation, instead of spending $100 mil on player salaries and letting a pair of greenhorn execs bring their organization down with poor playoff showings and embarrassing endings.

Once you fix the biggest problem I have not doubt that the core will be broken up not because its not talented but because its badly overpaid and you can't ice a competitive team around this top heavy design flaw.

 

[Cams]

I think we have all seen it, really talented offensive stars that go their whole career and never get a shot at the cup. It not surprising to me that this team , who has hung its cap , on 4 offensive stars and they can't make it past the 1st round.

Kyle and Co. are equating elite regular season offensive talent with how to win the cup. yes you need elite talent to make it but offence, offence, offence, offence should not be your main ingredient.

Not a single team with a scorer in the top 10 made it to the final four

RK	PLAYER	TEAM
1	Connor McDavid, C	EDM
2	Leon Draisaitl, C	EDM
3	Brad Marchand, C	BOS
4	Mitchell Marner, C	TOR
5	Auston Matthews, C	TOR
	Mikko Rantanen, RW	COL
	Patrick Kane, RW	CHI
8	Nathan MacKinnon, C	COL
9	Mark Scheifele, C	WPG
10	Sidney Crosby, C	PIT

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

One team with a player in the top 20 in scoring made it to the final four:

11	Mark Stone, RW	VGS
	Jonathan Huberdeau, LW	FLA
13	Aleksander Barkov, C	FLA
	David Perron, LW	STL
	Artemi Panarin, LW	NYR
16	Sebastian Aho, RW	CAR
	Jake Guentzel, LW	PIT
18	Alex DeBrincat, LW	CHI
19	Ryan O'Reilly, C	STL
20	Nicklas Backstrom, C	WSH

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

One team had two scorers in the top 30 and made it to the final four

21	Gabriel Landeskog, LW	COL
22	Kirill Kaprizov, LW	MIN
	Joe Pavelski, C	DAL
22	Max Pacioretty, LW	VGS
25	Kyle Connor, LW	WPG
	Mika Zibanejad, C	NYR
	John Tavares, C	TOR
	Anze Kopitar, C	LA
29	Brock Boeser, RW	VAN
	Evander Kane, LW	SJ
	Johnny Gaudreau, LW	CGY
	Ryan Strome, C	NYR

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

A second team had a scorer in the top 40 that made it to the final four

33	Patrice Bergeron, C	BOS
33	Brayden Point, C	TB
	Pavel Buchnevich, RW	NYR
	David Pastrnak, RW	BOS
	Tyson Barrie, D	EDM
38	Elias Lindholm, C	CGY
	Adam Fox, D	NYR
40	Nikolaj Ehlers, LW	WPG

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

NYI and Montreal had no players in the top 40, NYI Barzal (44th), Mtl Toffoli (48th). Toronto's 4th best scorer, Nylander had 2 less points than Toffoli and three less than Barzal, Nylander with less games played.

So the question remains, if two teams with no scorers in the top 40 can make the 3rd round and a team with basically 4 players with points equal to or better than their (NYI, Mtl) best scorer can't make it past the 1st round. Is elite regular season scoring talent the be all and end all of how to win the cup?

Is that for this year only though? Last year the final 4 teams had 5 of the top 30 point leaders. Also, I guess it's safe to assume that had Kucherov not been injured, he wouldn't have been a top 40 this year?

 

[Notsince67]

You should disclose if you are Marner's papa. Coincidence you joined HFboard when he started negotiations ? 11k messages to pump up sonny


Wishing fans to leave your son's team is sad papa.

Easy sherlock.

 

[ToneDog]

I think that is fair.

Dubas and Keefe and Leafs cap management, and coaching is certainly is a bigger cause of Leafs problems. Swapping around a few depth pieces around the edges is not going solve what ails the Leafs.

You're only as strong as your weakest link and Leafs management is clearly that.

The irony of the salary cap era is that management is not included in cost consideration so you would think a fortune 500 company would freely invest $$ to bring in the best and most experienced successful management team to run their operation, instead of spending $100 mil on player salaries and letting a pair of greenhorn execs bring their organization down with poor playoff showings and embarrassing endings.

Once you fix the biggest problem I have not doubt that the core will be broken up not because its not talented but because its badly overpaid and you can't ice a competitive team around this top heavy design flaw.

They did and were successful but Shanny lost his mind and handed the keys to the stick boy and all successful, experienced people left or were fired. We are back to being embarrassing on the ice and in the front office.

 

[killer1980]

Trouble with moving MM is he's AM's BFF. So AM would probable have a hissy fit and try even less than he already does. If you wanna dump Marner, you might as well dump Matthews as well. He'll probably be even less effective in the playoffs than he already is, if that's possible.

 

[Bluelines]

Is that for this year only though? Last year the final 4 teams had 5 of the top 30 point leaders. Also, I guess it's safe to assume that had Kucherov not been injured, he wouldn't have been a top 40 this year?

Correct for this year. The point I guess is Kyles and Shannys desire to not waver from the plan is IMO myopic, there is not just one way to win a cup, there are many ways to be playoff successful, if executed well. That is IMO where the Shanny plan falls short, it has not been executed well, from the farm development to the cap.

 

[Mickey Marner]

I think that is fair.

Dubas and Keefe and Leafs cap management, and coaching is certainly is a bigger cause of Leafs problems. Swapping around a few depth pieces around the edges is not going solve what ails the Leafs.

You're only as strong as your weakest link and Leafs management is clearly that.

The irony of the salary cap era is that management is not included in cost consideration so you would think a fortune 500 company would freely invest $$ to bring in the best and most experienced successful management team to run their operation, instead of spending $100 mil on player salaries and letting a pair of greenhorn execs bring their organization down with poor playoff showings and embarrassing endings.

Once you fix the biggest problem I have not doubt that the core will be broken up not because its not talented but because its badly overpaid and you can't ice a competitive team around this top heavy design flaw.

Yeah, I absolutely believe a team could win the cup with all of Matthews, Marner, Tavares & Nylander, but I think our front office has butchered it beyond repair.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I'm disappointed they won't even entertain the idea
I guess all the regular season success they've had is enough for some

Also disappointed that there have been no consequences thus far. Having an abysmal PP, coaching decisions or lack thereof, player deployment etc

 

[Atomos2]

Kyle does not have the stones to do that...

You can just end the sentence there. Til we get a gm with a backbone the team won’t make the moves it needs to make to get back on track. So this is gonna get a whole lot worse before even a whiff of it gets better.

 

[ToneDog]

Yeah, I absolutely believe a team could win the cup with all of Matthews, Marner, Tavares & Nylander, but I think our front office has butchered it beyond repair.

Could not agree more and it is because it cannot be fixed in one offseason, Shanny and Co. should not be the ones to fix it. Overhauling the lineup yearly to accommodate 4 overpaid players who have failed to get it done 5 straight years is not the right recipe.