Are you disappointed that they are sticking with the core?

[34]

Yes, it is a proven loser.

 

[Aus34Matt]

Marner to Ottawa for Tkachuk +

This would definitely mix things up and change the dynamics/culture in that pathetic locker room.

 

[notDatsyuk]

That's not really any different from the way others are using it. It's about recognizing and understanding what actually happened, instead of baselessly attributing the end result to whatever one wants to be true.

I'd say the majority of people quoting xGF will say the team outplayed Montreal, but still lost. Few potential reasons - luck (meh), goaltending (a factor IMO), conversion (a big factor IMO), it's a heavily flawed stat and Montreal actually dominated us (not how I saw it)

Some don't buy the stats, and I'd agree it's not perfect, but those disagreeing are rarely able to identify the reasons against it without simply resorting to "well we lost" or "the team is chicken shit". Personally I think it's worth a deeper look and those general assumptions don't gold much value on a deeper dive.

Also worth noting I try to consider hdcf, xgf and my own personal viewings to interpret what I'm seeing on a basic level. I'll often rewatch to see how thr data supports or disagrees with my viewings.

So basically I'm looking for answers on why we may have lost, not whether we did lose because that's known and I haven't seen many claim it was scheduling or the refs.

You two obviously aren't the ones I was referring to, but rather the posters who say "we had better xgf (or whatever) so we should have won", and don't want to try to understand why we didn't.

As far as particular excuses go, I do browse several team pages, and, while 'refs' and 'schedule' aren't as common here (we seem to have more 'luck' and 'injuries'), they appear more on some others, with incompetent or biased refs being very popular.

I think a very common problem across all fan bases is an unwillingness to differentiate between regular season and playoffs, particularly in hickey.

 

[Gallagbi]

I think a very common problem across all fan bases is an unwillingness to differentiate between regular season and playoffs, particularly in hickey.

In fairness to the officiating concerns, the only thing that SHOULD change is the effort and stakes. Having a new set of rules is bullshit, even if I don't think it did or should have mattered in our series. I know it's always been that way, and I've played through it at various levels often using it to my advantage, but it's still garbage.

 

[Pookie]

Is this "DanielZimmy" from the sportsnet fan forums back in the day?

I can't tell because he seems rather mellow in this tweet as opposed to his frequent meltdown threads in that forum. Maybe he's matured in the last decade? LMFAO

@Pookie Do you remember him? And what about anybody else who used to post there.

could be. But I have no info on that

 

[2 Slick]

Yes, very much so. Adding a few cheap players here and there is not enough to put them past the first round. They literally had a stranglehold on the series against Montreal, up three games to one and then choked to a bottom feeding team. Only Toronto can lose in epic fashion the way that they do year after year.

It’s the first time in the last five seasons that I have not been excited about the upcoming season. I feel that they will even struggle to make the playoffs, I say that as a huge fan of this team, I’m not just a naysayer to be a naysayer.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

No, I'm not against making a trade if the right one comes up. Blowing up the core or trading from a position of weakness isn't the right approach though. I also want to see them play a full season, with all the teams, no bubbles, no play in rounds, just a regular season of normal hockey. I think we have a very good team, who needs to figure it out in the playoffs.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yes, very much so. Adding a few cheap players here and there is not enough to put them past the first round. They literally had a stranglehold on the series against Montreal, up three games to one and then choked to a bottom feeding team. Only Toronto can lose in epic fashion the way that they do year after year.

It’s the first time in the last five seasons that I have not been excited about the upcoming season. I feel that they will even struggle to make the playoffs, I say that as a huge fan of this team, I’m not just a naysayer to be a naysayer.

Same here. I'm also a huge fan, have been one for 50+ years but my excitement level hasn't been this low since I don't even know when.

Based on the last 4 years, it's clear what this team is. In the regular season, it's a good team. Not great but good. It hasn't been able to crack the top 5 but it's solidly a top 10 team. In the playoffs though this is a sub .500 team that can't win a round no matter who the opponent is and in deciding games they play their worst, basically the more important the games are, the worse they play.

We just lost the guy with the highest compete level on the team to EDM and we're shuffling spare parts around so there is zero reason to expect things to be better this time around. But whatever, GLG I guess. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

 

[Gary Nylund]

No, I'm not against making a trade if the right one comes up. Blowing up the core or trading from a position of weakness isn't the right approach though. I also want to see them play a full season, with all the teams, no bubbles, no play in rounds, just a regular season of normal hockey. I think we have a very good team, who needs to figure it out in the playoffs.

No need to blow it up, just trade Marner and we'll be able to ice a better balanced roster. And you're never dealing from a position of weakness when you put a 1st team all-star on the block.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Same here. I'm also a huge fan, have been one for 50+ years but my excitement level hasn't been this low since I don't even know when.

Based on the last 4 years, it's clear what this team is. In the regular season, it's a good team. Not great but good. It hasn't been able to crack the top 5 but it's solidly a top 10 team. In the playoffs though this is a sub .500 team that can't win a round no matter who the opponent is and in deciding games they play their worst, basically the more important the games are, the worse they play.

We just lost the guy with the highest compete level on the team to EDM and we're shuffling spare parts around so there is zero reason to expect things to be better this time around. But whatever, GLG I guess. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Yeah I'm at where you guys are at. And so far, who is going into the corners on this team other than Kampf? Maybe Bunting.....
The formula for shutting this team down is an easy one. Hit them and don't let AM shoot

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

No need to blow it up, just trade Marner and we'll be able to ice a better balanced roster. And you're never dealing from a position of weakness when you put a 1st team all-star on the block.

I'm totally fine with that, but it needs to be a good trade. We don't need to "Larry Murphy" Marner based on the fans either though.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm totally fine with that, but it needs to be a good trade. We don't need to "Larry Murphy" Marner based on the fans either though.

He's a young 1st team all-star who's not that pricy in terms of real cash which is very attractive to some teams. He would fetch a huge return,

 

[weems]

Same here. I'm also a huge fan, have been one for 50+ years but my excitement level hasn't been this low since I don't even know when.

Based on the last 4 years, it's clear what this team is. In the regular season, it's a good team. Not great but good. It hasn't been able to crack the top 5 but it's solidly a top 10 team. In the playoffs though this is a sub .500 team that can't win a round no matter who the opponent is and in deciding games they play their worst, basically the more important the games are, the worse they play.

We just lost the guy with the highest compete level on the team to EDM and we're shuffling spare parts around so there is zero reason to expect things to be better this time around. But whatever, GLG I guess. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

It's almost as if the regular season and postseason are two opposite spectrums.

Regular season-> Tons of space, limited physical contact, referee's call by the book
Postseason -> Less open space, increased physical contact, referee's dont call by the book

The regular season is much more condusive for skilled players who need time and space, especially one's who potentially dont like having to face alot of physical contact. In the playoffs scoring becomes harder as opposing teams ramp up intensity and you wont get any soft powerplay calls.

Our core looks to be built quite well for the first set of conditions but not yet convinced about the second.

It would be akin to a shooter in Basketball. If you sag off of him and give him open looks with no pressure, He'll drain 3's all day but if you apply defensive pressure and get right in their face, They will start to struggle. At this point the player will have to find a way to push through and create offense and that usually involves driving to the basket where you could face contact.

 

[Rymistri]

The problem for the Leafs is that even if they manage to make some progress this year and win 1 round, they are going to be tight to resign Morgan and pay Campbell or replace him. It is going to be more plugging holes with scraps again. If this season goes sideways, it is going to get ugly.

 

[Le Cobra]

This is a lineup that would win me back and make me emotionally invested again But it's 100% not happening.

i too would probably watch the leafs again if they landed Eichel

 

[Le Cobra]

I thought Hyman was part of the core...

 

[ACC1224]

I thought Hyman was part of the core...

Everyone makes mistakes

 

[Dayjobdave]

Same here. I'm also a huge fan, have been one for 50+ years but my excitement level hasn't been this low since I don't even know when.

Based on the last 4 years, it's clear what this team is. In the regular season, it's a good team. Not great but good. It hasn't been able to crack the top 5 but it's solidly a top 10 team. In the playoffs though this is a sub .500 team that can't win a round no matter who the opponent is and in deciding games they play their worst, basically the more important the games are, the worse they play.

We just lost the guy with the highest compete level on the team to EDM and we're shuffling spare parts around so there is zero reason to expect things to be better this time around. But whatever, GLG I guess. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Gary I think you are right on what this team is. In the Montreal series we saw flashes of compete from Matthews and Nylander but the assertiveness that is needed wasn’t there from others.

I love Zach and agree he has the compete. I worry he will break down but nonetheless that is the type of player we need. I think that’s the attitude and attributes they are trying to bring in with their signings.

The obvious problem is that there was no room to get get Ed compete guys, or a truly high end extra goalie or snarly D.

This can only be fixed by moving a core piece or two and making great moves with the open space, or by the core growing into the right mindset and somehow executing in the playoffs.

Dubas is picking door number 2.

I want him to be right, because he’s betting Matthews’ time in Toronto and a lot of draft assets on it.

it feels a lot like the GM is in love with the names on the back of the sweater, and that’s what we are supposed to do, not him.

 

[TMLAM34]

I wonder what happens if this team comes out flat from game 1. I can see it happening with the schedule going back to regular. Boston got a lot tougher to play against, Florida got better, there’s Tampa Bay, hate it or not but Lous Islanders are a tough team to play against, Philly got a lot better, etc.

 

[rumman]

I wonder what happens if this team comes out flat from game 1. I can see it happening with the schedule going back to regular. Boston got a lot tougher to play against, Florida got better, there’s Tampa Bay, hate it or not but Lous Islanders are a tough team to play against, Philly got a lot better, etc.

Should kill it in game one, lifting of the Northern Division banner surely will pump the tires of every player on the team?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Gary I think you are right on what this team is. In the Montreal series we saw flashes of compete from Matthews and Nylander but the assertiveness that is needed wasn’t there from others.

I love Zach and agree he has the compete. I worry he will break down but nonetheless that is the type of player we need. I think that’s the attitude and attributes they are trying to bring in with their signings.

The obvious problem is that there was no room to get get Ed compete guys, or a truly high end extra goalie or snarly D.

This can only be fixed by moving a core piece or two and making great moves with the open space, or by the core growing into the right mindset and somehow executing in the playoffs.

Dubas is picking door number 2.

I want him to be right, because he’s betting Matthews’ time in Toronto and a lot of draft assets on it.

it feels a lot like the GM is in love with the names on the back of the sweater, and that’s what we are supposed to do, not him.

IMO this is a perfect summary. To me the obvious choice is door number one, move Marner and go from there. Dubas is choosing door number two, as fans of course we hope it works out but based on the evidence compiled over the last few years, it sure seems unlikely. And I believe you're 100% right about him being in love with the names on the back of the sweater. Starting with the promise to Nylander that we would never trade him and everything he's done since that seems to indicate this and it's huge mistake.

 

[Kief Richards]

Yes, I am disappointed that Dubas has painted himself into such a corner. It is not his fault that the perimeters of the league have changed so much (cap). However, he has nailed himself to promises and philosophies that were based on a pre pandemic NHL. I also question the skill only draft philosophy. Desire, some nastiness and size is a skill that is much needed on this team.