Stephen
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- Feb 28, 2002
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Without that cushion you’re also worried they won’t have the fight to grind out a playoff spot.
Are things as bad as we're saying?
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Without that cushion you’re also worried they won’t have the fight to grind out a playoff spot.
This team isn’t grinding out anything. They’ll either out-score their other problems or will be DOA.
- Dec 12, 2017
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McAvoy hit Marner in the first minute of the game that Hyman got the two game suspension for hitting...... McAvoy .....
If save% is legit then its obviously the biggest issue. Not many treating it as such though.
Just bringing that save% up to average by, lets say, Andersen not giving up those softies to the Blues in a game the Leafs owned or Hutch blowing leads, especially against the Habs and you think so many are losing their minds?
Just those two games and the Leafs are 8-4-1....which probably shows why the overreation by so many looks kind of silly. Its so early in the season to go ape.
I'm not saying the team has been playing like worldbeaters but I think that strictly goaltending has lost them at least 3 games this year....and being at least 9-4 is a top team in this league.
This team is obviously showing up to produce these kind of results and having the best 5D in the league last year and 2/3 of one of the best lines in hockey down with injuries DOES make a difference. Those 3 are a massive part of the team. Gonna be great to have them all back soon.
The most headscratching thing is all the Babcock hate. 5v5 possession and scoring chance differential are near the top of the league. Unless Babs can throw some equipment on to score or make a save, dont know how he can get much criticism. The system looks like its working fine, the players have to convert (especially in net although Anderson is finally rounding into form).
Just those two games and the Leafs are 8-4-1....which probably shows why the overreation by so many looks kind of silly. Its so early in the season to go ape.
I'm not saying the team has been playing like worldbeaters but I think that strictly goaltending has lost them at least 3 games this year....and being at least 9-4 is a top team in this league.
This team is obviously showing up to produce these kind of results and having the best 5D in the league last year and 2/3 of one of the best lines in hockey down with injuries DOES make a difference. Those 3 are a massive part of the team. Gonna be great to have them all back soon.
The most headscratching thing is all the Babcock hate. 5v5 possession and scoring chance differential are near the top of the league. Unless Babs can throw some equipment on to score or make a save, dont know how he can get much criticism. The system looks like its working fine, the players have to convert (especially in net although Anderson is finally rounding into form).
JayfromNB1219
Registered User
No I think he's pointing to the record...which is a negative...no reason in the world we should be mired with Montreal Tampa Boston and Buffalo (Tampa and Boston yes) the res tof them shouldn't even be close to us realistically...yet here we are
ShaneFalco
Registered User
I have no idea how you come to that conclusion and claim to watch games
LeafingTheWay
Registered User
- May 31, 2014
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You're probably confused by watching so many of our back-to-back games. We've played 3 back-to-backs + without Tavares/Hyman/Dermott + Marner/Andersen not playing to their usual at 5v5.
SIMMONS: Across the board, coaching, players, management, Leafs should be embarrassed by early-season play
Thirteen games into this season, the Maple Leafs are a convoluted mess. There is no nice way of sugar-coating this: They are a team lacking in identity, a club playing far below its capabilities, deficient in structure, not competitive enough to succeed. The coach should be at his wit’s end right about now, having never faced a challenge of this magnitude in his decorated career.
The players, across the board, should be embarrassed, by the little they’ve accomplished on the ice and the manner in which they have performed in the majority of their games to date. By my count, they’ve played 13 times, four of them of reasonable quality.
If you stretch this into last year’s playoffs against Boston — where, for the most part, they did play reasonably well — and into the last regular season, the Leafs have won 34 of their past 70 games.
That is no small sample size, even with a roster significantly changed from a year ago. This is who they are right now. And what makes this so exasperating is that this isn’t who they should be: Playing at a 90-point pace over a 70-game stretch.
Not good enough to make the playoffs, let alone win a playoff round, let alone contend.
In assessing teams years ago, the Hall of Famer Cliff Fletcher had a basic arm’s-length approach to evaluating his situation. He would take his roster and divide his players into three categories: Those who were playing to expectations; those who were playing beyond expectations; and those who were playing below them.
Then he’d have a sense of what needed to change and why.
Here’s my evaluation of the current Leafs. Those playing above expectations: Ilya Mikheyev, Alexander Kerfoot and Dmytro Timashov. And that’s it. Unless you want to stick Justin Holl in there as well.
Those playing to expectations: Frederik Andersen, Jake Muzzin, Kasperi Kapanen (after getting off the top line) and Trevor Moore.
And those with little expectations to begin with: Fred Gauthier, Nick Shore and Kevin Gravel.
Players falling below expectations are the most concerning here: Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner, Morgan Rielly, Tyson Barrie, William Nylander, Andreas Johnsson, Cody Ceci and then the lesser-lights Jason Spezza, Nic Petan and Martin Marincin.
We have no rating at this time, obviously, for John Tavares, Zach Hyman and Travis Dermott.
Using the Fletcher method, the Leafs should be struggling and, in this case, like most teams, will only go as far as the stars take them.
Thirteen games into this season, the Maple Leafs are a convoluted mess. There is no nice way of sugar-coating this: They are a team lacking in identity, a club playing far below its capabilities, deficient in structure, not competitive enough to succeed. The coach should be at his wit’s end right about now, having never faced a challenge of this magnitude in his decorated career.
The players, across the board, should be embarrassed, by the little they’ve accomplished on the ice and the manner in which they have performed in the majority of their games to date. By my count, they’ve played 13 times, four of them of reasonable quality.
If you stretch this into last year’s playoffs against Boston — where, for the most part, they did play reasonably well — and into the last regular season, the Leafs have won 34 of their past 70 games.
That is no small sample size, even with a roster significantly changed from a year ago. This is who they are right now. And what makes this so exasperating is that this isn’t who they should be: Playing at a 90-point pace over a 70-game stretch.
Not good enough to make the playoffs, let alone win a playoff round, let alone contend.
In assessing teams years ago, the Hall of Famer Cliff Fletcher had a basic arm’s-length approach to evaluating his situation. He would take his roster and divide his players into three categories: Those who were playing to expectations; those who were playing beyond expectations; and those who were playing below them.
Then he’d have a sense of what needed to change and why.
Here’s my evaluation of the current Leafs. Those playing above expectations: Ilya Mikheyev, Alexander Kerfoot and Dmytro Timashov. And that’s it. Unless you want to stick Justin Holl in there as well.
Those playing to expectations: Frederik Andersen, Jake Muzzin, Kasperi Kapanen (after getting off the top line) and Trevor Moore.
And those with little expectations to begin with: Fred Gauthier, Nick Shore and Kevin Gravel.
Players falling below expectations are the most concerning here: Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner, Morgan Rielly, Tyson Barrie, William Nylander, Andreas Johnsson, Cody Ceci and then the lesser-lights Jason Spezza, Nic Petan and Martin Marincin.
We have no rating at this time, obviously, for John Tavares, Zach Hyman and Travis Dermott.
Using the Fletcher method, the Leafs should be struggling and, in this case, like most teams, will only go as far as the stars take them.
Cleatus
Registered User
Good teams win, mediocre teams make excuses.
Fact is, most of this current iteration of Leafs are complete disgraces to the logo. Even if they turn things around, it'll only be because Andersen is playing out of his mind, and once again, they'll be easy first round fodder for literally any opponent (if they even make it).
Hell, if it was possible, I'm pretty sure this squad would lose a 7 game series to a bottom-feeding AHL team, likely after having a 3-0 series lead. And just to make things more upsetting for fans, they'd lose the series by blowing a 2 goal lead with 5 minutes left in game 7, with Andersen letting in the game winner from center ice with 15 seconds to go...
F*** this greedy, lazy, sack of crap team. Cleatus quits.
LeafingTheWay
Registered User
- May 31, 2014
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Cleatus
Registered User
No problem. Win or lose, St. Louis plays hockey like men, while the Leafs play like sparkly little fairy's with broken magic wands.
LeafingTheWay
Registered User
- May 31, 2014
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Okay, so a team that plays hockey like men were dead-last for the entire first half of last year and then man'd up even more in the 2nd half to make the playoffs and win the Stanley cup?
Wow! St.Louis fans must have been so calm and collective during the 1st half of the season knowing their team were playing hockey like men.
Cleatus
Registered User
Tell me, do you actually see this vegan muffin eating squad doing anything close to what St. Louis did last season? I mean, I'm sure they'll start playing better eventually, but in the end, we all know it'll just be for show, and that a meat and potatoes team like Boston will chew them up and spit them on a pile of mouse turds in the playoffs.
Three first round exits, and now we have no cap space and may not even make the playoffs...yeah I think things are worse than we fear.
PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
Things aren’t as bad as it looks if you factor in
- 4 B2Bs for the leafs in October
- Freddy letting in some soft goals (oct Freddy)
- not a healthy line up
- 8 or 9 new faces on the roster compared to last season i.e. large turnover
- new assistant coaches
- other factors
By Jan things should normalize across the league - that is - more parity.
It’s only 3 weeks into the season no need for panic just yet
- 4 B2Bs for the leafs in October
- Freddy letting in some soft goals (oct Freddy)
- not a healthy line up
- 8 or 9 new faces on the roster compared to last season i.e. large turnover
- new assistant coaches
- other factors
By Jan things should normalize across the league - that is - more parity.
It’s only 3 weeks into the season no need for panic just yet
No we aren't as bad as we're saying
But
The have to come together as a team.
Barrie and Mathews getting hit at the Blueline and no response from one player is not a good sign.
Even going over to say a word to that player .
They all need to be committed fully or we will score goals make fancy player and get booted in the first Rd.
That is why Boston beats
Everyone of there players are committed to the team.
They salivate when they play us.
Islanders are committed 7 wins in a row.
Not the most talented team but a team first mentality.
But
The have to come together as a team.
Barrie and Mathews getting hit at the Blueline and no response from one player is not a good sign.
Even going over to say a word to that player .
They all need to be committed fully or we will score goals make fancy player and get booted in the first Rd.
That is why Boston beats
Everyone of there players are committed to the team.
They salivate when they play us.
Islanders are committed 7 wins in a row.
Not the most talented team but a team first mentality.
PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
You know it’s funny. When things are going well for the Leafs, and there are main board threads made, suddenly there’s too many Leaf threads and it’s the worst thing ever.
Right now things are going relatively poorly, and you have a handful of threads, made by non-leaf fans, about negative Leaf topics, and not a peep about too many Leaf threads.
Interesting
Right now things are going relatively poorly, and you have a handful of threads, made by non-leaf fans, about negative Leaf topics, and not a peep about too many Leaf threads.
Interesting
- Dec 12, 2017
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there is still a ton of time but that “other factors”category really has me concerned.
PJ Stock on Leafs Lunch and the OD boys and Ray brought up the fact that the Leafs superstars are not as good as some other team’s superstars. They talked about how Crosby plays a complete game and how Bergeron is a complete player and how both compete at an extremely high level.
I’m not saying Auston Matthews can’t turn his game around and become what we hoped he would, but nobody can say that he’s as good as Bergeron. If he never gets there....that’s scary.
LeafingTheWay
Registered User
- May 31, 2014
- 6,726
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Yes.
Just because you've become bitter about the team, doesn't mean others are.
You would have probably been one of the guys who called St.Louis a vegan muffin eating squad during the 1st half of the season last year.
Crosby is a rare breed.... Most elite level players it takes loosing for them to understand that it takes putting compete before your skill of the entire group for a team to contend for a championship. Gretzky and the mighty Oilers suffered playoff failors before they became a dynasty with the ever famous moment when they past the NYI dressing room that made it click for them for what it takes. Brett Hull 86 goal season was in large done by playing loosing hockey kind of with how Matthews trends to play like. It wasn't until Hitchcock got his hands on him and the desire to win over took the desire to score goals when he started playing winning hockey. Yzerman Bowman was about to trade him if he didn't change how he played and put compete before scoring goals. There's plenty more examples. It's Unfortunate but worth going through some loosing right now. It's the loosing that will change the top end of the roster to get into playing winning hockey.
PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
first comparison of matthews to crosby is not a fair comparison. Crosby is a generational talent, Matthews is a good player but he is far from generational -> at least from what we have seen.
Bergeron is a 200 ft player; Bergeron sacrifices quite a bit of offense to play very well defensively; there is a reason he is a selke candidate. matthews may get there but based on his play matthews is no where close to a selke candidate hell not even tavares.
problem is that when said players take lion's share of the cap they are expected to perform; take responsibility for on ice results and mitigate any risk of the positions that could not be filled because they took large share of the cap.
the question then becomes is that such a large share of the cap to both matthews and marner (and to some extent tavares+nylander) justified? If yes, then we need to see on ice results; if no then GM's allocation of cap to the said players have to be questioned.
But it is still too early IMO to question given the schedule; injuries to key players; B2B; not enough time for practice etc...
I think the November results for the entire month should paint a better picture than October. After November if we are still a .500 hockey club then some serious discussions regarding roster make up would have to be brought to the forefront.
If the key players that are taking a lot of the cap share are not going to compensate for other positional weaknesses then tough decisions would have to be made.
For Babcock; our best regular season was when JT was not part of the team - if am not mistaken that was the best regular season ever for the Leafs. It is the same coach; but the player personnel turnover from last season is huge - and this might take some time.
End of November should give us a decent sample of games and the on-ice results should dictate roster/management moves.
HellasLEAF
'93 to Infinity
- Sep 14, 2006
- 15,348
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I actually do think things are very concerning. I don't care for the sample size argument here (which others have said stretches back into last season). The team is lacking real passion in their play at present.
Getting roughed up. No response.
Dubas needs to get on the phone because the makeup of the team is built for international hockey not NHL.
Getting roughed up. No response.
Dubas needs to get on the phone because the makeup of the team is built for international hockey not NHL.
Teeder Keon
Defeat does not rest lightly on their shoulders
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