Are things as bad as we're saying?

[Mess]

So which is it...we have the same start as the previous two season and end up 3rd behind Boston, or is the world crumbling?

I've never thought the World was crumbling.

However despite the Leafs on a similar pace as the past season an indication the world in not crumbling, but also other teams have upped their games so its no guarantee the ending position will be he same unless the Leafs start playing better.

 

[ottomaddox]

You literally stated "he could never really win for them when push came to shove" . That's literally putting the blame squarely on Lalime's shoulders.

Anderson has been good, but not great. You can't fault Andersen for the Leafs being outshot. He faced a ton of shots against the Bruins , 41 , 40, 30, and 30 shots faced in last years playoffs, and those were the losses. Trying to suggest he can't save them, is kind of ridiculous when the defense is having issues preventing shots getting through to Andersen

Perhaps I am leaning on the goalie. Did you see game 7 TOR vs. OTT 2004?

You tell me if some really soft goals was the difference.

 

[Zybalto]

How the heck did that 2nd goal go through his legs? Had eyes.

 

[Menzinger]

Perhaps I am leaning on the goalie. Did you see game 7 TOR vs. OTT 2004?

You tell me if some really soft goals was the difference.

You could say the same thing about soft goals deciding the last couple Leafs playoff runs too...

 

[ottomaddox]

You could say the same thing about soft goals deciding the last couple Leafs playoff runs too...

You could say a lot of things. Where is this conversation going? Soft goals didn't make TOR mighty in the past and soft goals doesn't make TOR mighty today?

If anything this new leafs team can learn something from the Nieuwendyk goals:

Shoot the puck. You never know what might happen.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Perhaps I am leaning on the goalie. Did you see game 7 TOR vs. OTT 2004?

You tell me if some really soft goals was the difference.

I mentioned it in my original post that game 7 in 04 was pretty much the only game that he was 100% to blame for Ottawa not getting past the first round . The others were mostly because Ottawa's scoring went cold. He's not completely faultness, every goalie could make 1 more save I suppose , but people gave him too hard of a time . He was a good goalie that just didn't have a team built for the playoffs ahead of him. It is what it is.

 

[Its not your fault]

Perhaps I am leaning on the goalie. Did you see game 7 TOR vs. OTT 2004?

You tell me if some really soft goals was the difference.

Lalime died that night and became Lalame. Gamers win championships there's guys are still young enough to become gamers they are finishing out what their are made of collectively right now.

 

[ElbowLander]

My turn out the lights post was deleted but it's far from premature. This team will not make the playoffs

 

[darrylsittler27]

Dubas is incompetent and most fans could do a better job. Most boring, unlikable team I can recall. Overpriced ,no first rounders, and miss the playoffs, Totally pathetic. It is an insult the way this organization treats its fans.

 

[Mess]

The Leafs have won 6 games all season of their 14 matches, and only 1 win has come against a playoff team in Boston in OT.

There other 5 wins have come against the bottom teams of the NHL in OTT, MIN, DET, SJ all teams that haven't hit double digit points yet and Columbus who lost major stars to FA.

So that is not great that their points have come from the bottom feeders and they lose to playoff teams.

If you can't beat the better playoff teams you can't really be considered a serious Cup contender.

 

[Zack47]

This will take a few lines. My sense is that there are three problems with this team, and they are not easily solved, and they are also kind of unrelated to each other. No, this is not about grit. That is the easy explanation.

Three things:

1) This team has an INCOME INEQUALITY problem, to put it in terms outside of sports. It's like a country where too much of the total income is made by a very small group at the top. I think -- no matter what -- this has to be an issue for the team. For one thing, Dubas has no room to move to make anything better, not even a better backup goalie. For another, I don't care what anyone says, if I am making 2 million, while others make 11, and I know the Leafs can't give me any more no matter how well I play --- where is the incentive here? How can there NOT be resentment? How can this be a comfortable room?

2) This team has a CHARACTER problem. I am disappointed in every one of the three young turks here. First Nylander -- at least I knew he was going to brutally selfish, self-destructively so. It was obvious all along. But I didn't expect him to be stupid, holding out to the point where his own game and future value suffered. Then there is Matthews. Sorry, everyone, this incident in the summer is NOT a small deal. Please don't tell me that "we all do stupid things at 22." No, we don't. How many of you were pulling your pants down in front of women at 22? 10%? even 20% More like 5% I would guess. And then we learn it is a black woman, which introduces a racial tinge to this that is uncomfortable, and then his friend says he is "doing this all up and down Scottsdale Avenue." Just pay attention to that. It leaves me with a lot of questions about his leadership. Basically, the whole thing seemed creepy. Finally Marner: Mitch the kid, where did you go? Who led you down this path where you end up making 2 million more than you are worth? And It seems obvious he is spooked by this contract. His contract is an embarrassment next to other RFAs who are as good or better. So what does the team do? Make him and Matthews Assistant Captains. This makes no sense. Poor judgment. If the leaders on your team are this selfish and this immature, it's not good for the team. My advice to Marner: tear up your contract and sign for less. Best move you ever made.

3) This team has a COACHING problem. I don't even think Babcock likes this team. His comments are getting increasingly aggressive about what is missing -- all shots at Dubas, basically. He can't keep doing this. He is rigid about his way, but he is also not good with this millennial generation of hockey player. He has to go...

So the only thing you can do now is fire the coach. And yet, I don't think that will help either. Playoffs? I can't see it.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

This will take a few lines. My sense is that there are three problems with this team, and they are not easily solved, and they are also kind of unrelated to each other. No, this is not about grit. That is the easy explanation.

Three things:

1) This team has an INCOME INEQUALITY problem, to put it in terms outside of sports. It's like a country where too much of the total income is made by a very small group at the top. I think -- no matter what -- this has to be an issue for the team. For one thing, Dubas has no room to move to make anything better, not even a better backup goalie. For another, I don't care what anyone says, if I am making 2 million, while others make 11, and I know the Leafs can't give me any more no matter how well I play --- where is the incentive here? How can there NOT be resentment? How can this be a comfortable room?

2) This team has a CHARACTER problem. I am disappointed in every one of the three young turks here. First Nylander -- at least I knew he was going to brutally selfish, self-destructively so. It was obvious all along. But I didn't expect him to be stupid, holding out to the point where his own game and future value suffered. Then there is Matthews. Sorry, everyone, this incident in the summer is NOT a small deal. Please don't tell me that "we all do stupid things at 22." No, we don't. How many of you were pulling your pants down in front of women at 22? 10%? even 20% More like 5% I would guess. And then we learn it is a black woman, which introduces a racial tinge to this that is uncomfortable, and then his friend says he is "doing this all up and down Scottsdale Avenue." Just pay attention to that. It leaves me with a lot of questions about his leadership. Basically, the whole thing seemed creepy. Finally Marner: Mitch the kid, where did you go? Who led you down this path where you end up making 2 million more than you are worth? And It seems obvious he is spooked by this contract. His contract is an embarrassment next to other RFAs who are as good or better. So what does the team do? Make him and Matthews Assistant Captains. This makes no sense. Poor judgment. If the leaders on your team are this selfish and this immature, it's not good for the team. My advice to Marner: tear up your contract and sign for less. Best move you ever made.

3) This team has a COACHING problem. I don't even think Babcock likes this team. His comments are getting increasingly aggressive about what is missing -- all shots at Dubas, basically. He can't keep doing this. He is rigid about his way, but he is also not good with this millennial generation of hockey player. He has to go...

So the only thing you can do now is fire the coach. And yet, I don't think that will help either. Playoffs? I can't see it.

I was in university and went streaking when I was 22. Lighten up, Francis.

 

[hoglund]

My turn out the lights post was deleted but it's far from premature. This team will not make the playoffs

It's a bit early to predict that, things do need to improve, hopefully the return of Tavares and a lighter schedule will improve things.

 

[Mess]

The Leafs are all offense (3.50 goals per game, seventh best in the NHL) and no defense (3.38, ninth worst in the NHL).

Goals For 49 vs Goals Against 49 = goal differential Zero

Record 14 games 6-5-3 for 15 points.

A team built to outscore their defensive mistakes with a goal differential as Even would = .500 average hockey team.

So I wouldn't classify this is bad, and more the results meet expectations based on player personnel composition and style of play.

It is what it is !!!.

 

[Legion34]

After. 14 games record 6-5-3 for 15
Our record last year was 9-5-0 for 18 pts.

last year we had 1 back to back. I this year we have had 3 We have played the best team in the league 2 , the cup champs. The lightning when they had life.

much harder schedule. The difference is 3 Ot points

I’m not in love with how they played either but man people forget so quick.

 

[Trapper]

The Leafs are all offense (3.50 goals per game, seventh best in the NHL) and no defense (3.38, ninth worst in the NHL).

Goals For 49 vs Goals Against 49 = goal differential Zero

Record 14 games 6-5-3 for 15 points.

A team built to outscore their defensive mistakes with a goal differential as Even would = .500 average hockey team.

So I wouldn't classify this is bad, and more the results meet expectations based on player personnel composition and style of play.

It is what it is !!!.

You can't build a team in a cap era to outscore their problems. It's not feasible. You can build a team to win 1-0 and add a Matthews + another player though. That's feasible.
And when paying salaries for potential, don't do it for 3 guys. Do it for the goal scoring center but not the 2 similar wingers. Odds are you will get burnt with 3. Especially when you add a 4th forward for 11 million.

 

[FlareKnight]

After. 14 games record 6-5-3 for 15
Our record last year was 9-5-0 for 18 pts.

last year we had 1 back to back. I this year we have had 3 We have played the best team in the league 2 , the cup champs. The lightning when they had life.

much harder schedule. The difference is 3 Ot points

I’m not in love with how they played either but man people forget so quick.

So last year they started out winning 4 more games and this year they've lost 2 more than they've won. While the handy nature of the loser point makes it look better, that's still a much worse start to the season. For a team that does its best work when the league isn't playing defense and they can score their way through a lot of early troubles.

I'd say you are plenty in love with how they've played considering the efforts to dismiss how badly they've played to start the year. The Leafs are supposed to be one of the better teams in the league. If they need a soft schedule against bad teams to get points then they probably shouldn't be considered a good team either.

They haven't lost their season. But they have started off badly. Pretending they haven't doesn't improve the situation.

 

[ToMaLe]

The problem with this team has been pretty clear for a long long time. Dubas has a vision of how he wants his team built and how he wants them to play, a talented, fast, up tempo young skilled hockey team. Babcock on the other hand want a stretch pass, dump and chase style of a heavy brand of hockey with an over use of grinding veterans. The 2 are not on the same page and never will be. Anyone with an ounce of observation skills can see this. It’s like hitching a thoroughbred race horse to a hay cart. It just doesn’t make sense. The sooner a coach is brought in that would be on the same page as Dubas the better, whether it is Keefe or not. It’s much easier to get the right coach for the team then getting the right team for the coach. An arrogant, stubborn, egotistic coach that blames everyone but himself, is nothing but a cancer for this young team. Clearly the players tuned him out long ago. Babcock needs to go and needs to go yesterday.

 

[ToMaLe]

Look back at our record from the the 1/2 way mark of last year into the playoffs and up until after Saturday’s game in Montreal .
Also even look at most of the wins we had before that mark , when Mr Andersen stole wins for us that we had no business in winning them ..
Also look at the decision making behind the bench in the last couple , 3 years and especially in the playoffs .
Also look at our division other than Tampa and Boston until this year and see how we got a lot of our points .
Throw away the first year with Babcock as it was meaningless , what are we left with ???
Think and analyze and use the eye test and your knowledge of hockey ..
Throw in that we have drafted in my opinion terrifically
Toss in that we have all the money in the world at our disposal involved in our organization, and development programs , and we use it well ... by the way !
Take a pause , reflect on all our deficiencies that our coach has been working on since he’s been here , have any been rectified ? No , not one bit , in fact the problems are on going and you would have a case in saying that they are worse year to year ..
Now put all those things together and what do you have ?
Well,
We have what you see ..
Exactly !
Does that answer your question ?
You tell me ...

Yea Babcock for sure is the wrong coach for this team. Would be nice if they could just demote him to the Marlies and let him ride the bus. That would throw his huge ego for a loop.

 

[ToMaLe]

Here we are in November and out of a playoff spot, and most teams have games in hand on top of that. So yea things are bad.

 

[Hacketts]

yes

 

[deletethis]

Here we are in November and out of a playoff spot, and most teams have games in hand on top of that. So yea things are bad.

Not to mention that the Leafs have played 9 home games to 5 road games. The team's record is supposed to be considerably better under those circumstances.

This is the team's 4th straight indifferent October. The team has gone on a November roll in all previous seasons. Are they doing it again this season?

 

[Mess]

What 'American Thanksgiving' NHL standings positions say about playoff chances

Date: Nov 2018

Detroit Red Wings general manager Ken Holland often says “American Thanksgiving” is the time when a GM has a true read of where his team fits in the NHL standings.
History supports Holland in that belief.

Over the last five years, 77.5% (62 of 80) of the teams that were in a playoff spot on Thanksgiving also had one when the regular season was completed. It's 75% dating to 2005-06.

NHL: 'American Thanksgiving' a key date for playoff hopes

NHL's unofficial playoff predictor: Reading into the standings at Thanksgiving milepost

Is it possible to predict the NHL playoff field in November? Not exactly, but that hasn't stopped the practice from becoming a league-wide tradition in the last decade as each season reaches its all-telling U.S. Thanksgiving landmark.

Since the salary cap came into play in 2005-06, teams in a playoff position on the fourth Thursday in November have gone on to make it 77.8 percent of the time, according to calculations by our friends at Opta Sports. Over that span, on average, fewer than four teams out of playoff contention at this time of year reverse their fortunes in time to make the Stanley Cup playoffs. Last year, it turned out 14 of the 16 playoff teams were in place by Nov. 24.

While incomplete, the data is compelling enough to serve as a snapshot to project standings come April.

NHL's unofficial playoff predictor: Reading into the standings at Thanksgiving milepost

The sample sizes are big enough, the schedule is old enough – we can finally start making wild playoff projections based on actual games played so far. And, historically, looking at the playoff picture as it sits today really does mean something.

It’s not early anymore. It’s the all-important American Thanksgiving cutoff.



So after October our Leafs find themselves on the outside looking in at this point, and as past historical data suggests the playoff odds of participating are decreasing rapidly.

 

[member 300185]

Well, we just slipped outside the playoff race and the wild card spot with Montreal having a game at hand so yea, the team sucks. No freaking heart and no direction with a stubborn coach that is not willing to step out of the bronze age.

 

[The Iceman]

I think that statistic is baked.

Sure the top 10 teams in points at American Thanksgiving are likely to make the playoffs. They are typically the really good teams.
So if you told me 42 out of 50 top 10 teams at Thanksgiving made the playoffs that would leave only 20 out of 30 safe. 66%.

fun with numbers.