Are things as bad as we're saying?

[ToMaLe]

Well yeah, he would absolutely deserve to get fired in that scenario, but unfortunately that isn’t how things work. Babcock deserved to get fired in May but he wasn’t. Dubas deserved to get fired as soon as he brought the Marner deal to Shannhan but he wasn’t. And he will deserve to be fired when this team misses the playoffs but that won’t happen either.

Well actually that is how things work. You don’t do a good enough job, you get fired. That’s how life is. That goes for Babcock, Dubas, Shanny or anyone else.

 

[Mess]

Due to all the big fat guaranteed contracts it has been a breeding ground for player complacency, and sadly now overpaid players with a sense of entitlement issues has now seen the return of Blue and White disease in Toronto.

I would say laziness is the #1 issue as many Leafs look to be giving far less than 100% effort.

Maybe they need Hyman back, because nobody works harder shift to shift and that can be contagious particularly for defeating laziness.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

To the people who keep trotting out the “well, St Louis had a slow start and they won the cup” argument, I have one response - Binnington. Who exactly does Toronto have in the minors who they can bring up and instantly become an elite difference maker, being named player of the month in back to back months, a finalist for the Calder and Conn Smythe trophies? No one. Good grief, St Louis didn’t turn their season around last January with the same core players, they had a budding superstar rookie goalie join the team.
And yes, Tavares returning might give this team a bit of a lift, but the Leafs have been playing mediocre hockey since last January, long before he broke his thumb.

Did you know as a fun fact that twice the Blues almost cut Binner in 2015? And in 2016 they were rethinking again? It was no easy 5 year ride in minors for Binner. He was no certain guaranteed guy. Goalies are even more difficult to figure out then defenders. My point is even the blues did not really understand what they had in Binner. I think we have a really good one baking with Marlies. In 2-3 years he will make his mark.

 

[ToMaLe]

Did you know as a fun fact that twice the Blues almost cut Binner in 2015? And in 2016 they were rethinking again? It was no easy 5 year ride in minors for Binner. He was no certain guaranteed guy. Goalies are even more difficult to figure out then defenders. My point is even the blues did not really understand what they had in Binner. I think we have a really good one baking with Marlies. In 2-3 years he will make his mark.

Like you say goaltenders are more difficult to figure out, so with that said it’s possible we might have 2 really good ones in Woll and Scott. On the other hand they could both turn into Pogge and Raycroft. But I highly doubt they turn out that bad.

 

[hoglund]

It depends on who you're talking to, it's true that the Leafs are off to a bad start and are currently out of a playoff position, but there are too many games left to panic. Some say wait until the American Thanksgiving to check the standings, I'd say Christmas is probably better. Either way it's too soon.

 

[The CyNick]

People make fun of Babcock using the term good pros, but when you see what happens when you have a GM hell bent on taking all those guys away in favor of water bugs who are afraid of their own shadow, you quickly realize why Babs' trophy case is full and the GMs will never be.

 

[Pilky01]

It depends on who you're talking to, it's true that the Leafs are off to a bad start and are currently out of a playoff position, but there are too many games left to panic. Some say wait until the American Thanksgiving to check the standings, I'd say Christmas is probably better. Either way it's too soon.

Guess we'll have to see how it plays out.

 

[The CyNick]

It depends on who you're talking to, it's true that the Leafs are off to a bad start and are currently out of a playoff position, but there are too many games left to panic. Some say wait until the American Thanksgiving to check the standings, I'd say Christmas is probably better. Either way it's too soon.

November schedule is full of road games. Entirely possible November is worse than October. By then we might be behind the eight ball.

This is also the easiest time of year for teams like the leafs to get points. When the team that ate full of real men get going in the new year, the points could be much harder to come by.

 

[Kiwi]

No, they aren't

If you look at our injuries, October schedule, roster turnover and goaltending it's hardly surprising we've started off the season inconsistently

This team is capable of more and this is the month I think they will start showing that improvement

 

[Crows Eye]

Did you know as a fun fact that twice the Blues almost cut Binner in 2015? And in 2016 they were rethinking again? It was no easy 5 year ride in minors for Binner. He was no certain guaranteed guy. Goalies are even more difficult to figure out then defenders. My point is even the blues did not really understand what they had in Binner. I think we have a really good one baking with Marlies. In 2-3 years he will make his mark.

Yeah, it’s rare that a player that good takes so long in the minors to find their game.
It’s a shame that the Leafs haven’t developed a decent back-up to Andersen right now. Hutchinson just isn’t an NHL goalie, IMHO and I worry that Babcock is going to be forced to play Andersen a lot more than the 60 games he played last season. I envy a team like Vancouver with Thatcher Demko. It just takes the pressure off to know the back-up is dependable.

 

[Crows Eye]

Just like in any work place, people work harder for people they respect. When players get thrown under the bus and the coach continuously blame everyone but himself, there is no respect.

I agree. Especially his response to Ovechkin’s comment about the Leafs young players needing to learn to not play for themselves, etc. Even if Ovechkin is right, having your coach agree with an opposing player’s criticism of your team, especially just before you play against that player, comes across to me as patronizing, arrogant and a betrayal. It’s like Babcock is acting like he and Ovechkin are both in some elite club above the players on his own team. I can only imagine that Leafs players were thinking that a better coach would have told “Ovi” to mind his own f—ing business.

 

[hoglund]

November schedule is full of road games. Entirely possible November is worse than October. By then we might be behind the eight ball.

This is also the easiest time of year for teams like the leafs to get points. When the team that ate full of real men get going in the new year, the points could be much harder to come by.

Could be, we'll have to wait and see. Personally I'd wait until the end of December to assess the team, by then enough games have been played to get a true assessment and there are still enough games to play at that time to make adjustments

 

[Nineteen67]

November schedule is full of road games. Entirely possible November is worse than October. By then we might be behind the eight ball.

This is also the easiest time of year for teams like the leafs to get points. When the team that ate full of real men get going in the new year, the points could be much harder to come by.

Kyle Dubas is trying to do something that has never been done in the history of the sport. Before it works, if it works at all, I suspect he’ll have to fire a few blanks and reset a few times.

I am not big fan of his philosophy and I hope he has to change his ideals rather than the rest of the league adopting his vision of success.

 

[hector morrison]

People make fun of Babcock using the term good pros, but when you see what happens when you have a GM hell bent on taking all those guys away in favor of water bugs who are afraid of their own shadow, you quickly realize why Babs' trophy case is full and the GMs will never be.

He won one cup...shoulda won 4 or 5...and he gets zero credit for any international victory! Stacked teams.He doesn't know how to coach talented players...he can't teach them anything! he can help a plug with no talent to succeed by instilling a good work ethic...he has shown that he cannot adapt in game and basically challenges his opponents to match him...and when they do ,he blames the players...He is on his last run here. I hope he does well,I hope they win it all with him...but I ain't bettin 'on it!

 

[ToMaLe]

I agree. Especially his response to Ovechkin’s comment about the Leafs young players needing to learn to not play for themselves, etc. Even if Ovechkin is right, having your coach agree with an opposing player’s criticism of your team, especially just before you play against that player, comes across to me as patronizing, arrogant and a betrayal. It’s like Babcock is acting like he and Ovechkin are both in some elite club above the players on his own team. I can only imagine that Leafs players were thinking that a better coach would have told “Ovi” to mind his own f—ing business.

No kidding. I would not have any respect for a coach like that either. He is tuned out like a bad fiddle.

 

[The Iceman]

I think that statistic is baked.

Sure the top 10 teams in points at American Thanksgiving are likely to make the playoffs. They are typically the really good teams.
So if you told me 42 out of 50 top 10 teams at Thanksgiving made the playoffs that would leave only 20 out of 30 safe. 66%.

fun with numbers.

I like numbers but I'm not understanding this, please explain.

Sorry, easier to explain my reasoning than typing it.

What my point is take the top 10 teams at Thanksgiving out of the equation.
Lets assume the top 10 will probably make the playoffs.

What I would be more interested to know is what percentage of teams sitting in the playoff spots 11-16 at Thanksgiving still hang on to their playoff spots.

So over the last five seasons, 77.5% of teams in a playoff spot at American Thanksgiving have went on to clinch a berth in the postseason. 62 out of 80. This is fact.

But if 9 out of the top 10 at Thanksgiving make it every year.
This leaves only 17 out of 30 that were sitting in the 11-16 spot in the playoffs at year end. 56.7%

That number makes the Thanksgiving stat much less important.

 

[Menzinger]

Kyle Dubas is trying to do something that has never been done in the history of the sport. Before it works, if it works at all, I suspect he’ll have to fire a few blanks and reset a few times.

I am not big fan of his philosophy and I hope he has to change his ideals rather than the rest of the league adopting his vision of success.

Which is?

 

[Nineteen67]

Which is?

Win without grinders and toughness.

 

[Menzinger]

Win without grinders and toughness.

What are Muzzin and Hyman then?

 

[Maple Leaf]

Best case scenario is Babcock and Dubas shipped to the island

 

[ElbowLander]

It's a bit early to predict that, things do need to improve, hopefully the return of Tavares and a lighter schedule will improve things.

It's not too early. They are not good enough. They had 3 days off and look gassed against a lowly flyers team that played the night before

 

[Advanced stats]

Win without grinders and toughness.

Hello Pittsburgh and Chicago!

 

[BertCorbeau]

Things are not as bad as we're saying. This could just be a down season, a blip on the radar for various reasons.

Look at the idolized Tampa Bay team. After a Cup Finals and Conference Finals appearance in 14/15 and 15/16, they missed the playoffs in 16/17 ... They rebounded in 17/18 to the Conference Finals

A lot of difference circumstances at play but one thing that the Leafs have going for them is youth and development. This isn't an over-the-hill team like San Jose. With proper development, coaching, and the corresponding roster moves things should continue to look up.

 

[Nineteen67]

Hello Pittsburgh and Chicago!

Nope. Far from it. Almost like you never watch them win.

 

[hoglund]

It's not too early. They are not good enough. They had 3 days off and look gassed against a lowly flyers team that played the night before

It's too early.