Are the Oilers a top 5 contender next season with Jack Campbell?

[Czechboy]

I think this is a key. Is Woodcroft a good coach or did he give the team a "played well after new coach boost"?

I remember when the Pens first promoted Bylsma after firing Therien. They played great (even resulted in a Cup) and we all thought "coach of the future! more championships to come". Turns out Bylsma simply took Therien's existing structure, but loosened the reins and allowed more offensive freedom and the players responded to that -- for a short time.

After that, when Bylsma had fully implemented his own system, the team kept underachieving and never again reached the level they did immediately after he took over.

Is Woodcroft in the same boat where the players simply played well because he was a breath of fresh air after Tippett? Or is he a quality coach? This season should be telling.

It's a great point and comparison. We will see. I'm a big Woodcroft/Manson fan but 82 games and playoffs is a whole other animal. I'll be cheering for him for sure but, like you point out, no guarantee.

 

[23Monahan]

We are at the part of the season where actual results like getting to the Stanley Cup Final or getting to the Conference Finals is mocked by fans of teams who haven't been past the 2nd round in 15+ years. Cool.

Lol you're right! Making it one round further then getting you're asses kicked after the last decade, despite multiple first overall picks and being gifted the best player in the NHL is definitely much much better! Congrats on the third round exit though, after the last decade of abuse you guys definitely earned it

Also the flames and oilers have won the same amount of games in the playoffs in the last 15 years in the 3rd and 4th rounds of the playoffs.

 

[TheOrangeDesk]

I have a feeling that Smith comes back sometime this year if either goalie is failing during the season and he'll be on the roster during the playoffs.

I doubt it, he didn't train to be ready over the summer and he has legit injury issues. he de

I think this is a key. Is Woodcroft a good coach or did he give the team a "played well after new coach boost"?

I remember when the Pens first promoted Bylsma after firing Therien. They played great (even resulted in a Cup) and we all thought "coach of the future! more championships to come". Turns out Bylsma simply took Therien's existing structure, but loosened the reins and allowed more offensive freedom and the players responded to that -- for a short time.

After that, when Bylsma had fully implemented his own system, the team kept underachieving and never again reached the level they did immediately after he took over.

Is Woodcroft in the same boat where the players simply played well because he was a breath of fresh air after Tippett? Or is he a quality coach? This season should be telling.

as soon as woodcraft came in he fundamentally changed part of their system play, including how they defend blue line, forechcek and backcheck. Players also praised him on how clear and concise his messages were. I have a fair bit of faith in Woodcroft

 

[SnipeShowJB11]

Lol you're right! Making it one round further then getting you're asses kicked after the last decade, despite multiple first overall picks and being gifted the best player in the NHL is definitely much much better! Congrats on the third round exit though, after the last decade of abuse you guys definitely earned it!

How about getting a Johhny Gaudreau when you did. He would be a top pick. Tkachuk? You had Hamilton come there. Hanifin is a top pick. You have had top goalies. Why did CGY do sweet f*** all thus far with all of that talent? I wish the Oilers went to the cup finals with Yakupov, Hall, etc as the main leaders.

I mean, GEEZ, they are equal to top picks like McDavid and Drai.

Your main premise is that the Oilers had all of these ELITE top picks/talent and did nothing with them. I would say CGY has had much better talent on their team until recently.

When is the last time CGY made it to the 3rd round? 2004? Almost 20 years ago lol

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I think this is a key. Is Woodcroft a good coach or did he give the team a "played well after new coach boost"?

I remember when the Pens first promoted Bylsma after firing Therien. They played great (even resulted in a Cup) and we all thought "coach of the future! more championships to come". Turns out Bylsma simply took Therien's existing structure, but loosened the reins and allowed more offensive freedom and the players responded to that -- for a short time.

After that, when Bylsma had fully implemented his own system, the team kept underachieving and never again reached the level they did immediately after he took over.

Is Woodcroft in the same boat where the players simply played well because he was a breath of fresh air after Tippett? Or is he a quality coach? This season should be telling.

I agree. You need to see at least a season or two from a new NHL coach before you can judge them. If the Oilers play this season at the same pace under Woodcroft then you can say he’s a quality coach.

 

[23Monahan]

How about getting a Johhny Gaudreau when you did. He would be a top pick. Tkachuk? You had Hamilton come there. Hanifin is a top pick. You have had top goalies. Why did CGY do sweet f*** all thus far with all of that talent? I wish the Oilers went to the cup finals with Yakupov, Hall, etc as the main leaders.

I mean, GEEZ, they are equal to top picks like McDavid and Drai.

When is the last time CGY made it to the 3rd round? 2004? Almost 20 years ago lol

Lol what? All teams have good players. You were gifted McDavid, we picked Johnny in the 4th round, meaning every team had multiple chances to take him. Hamilton and hanifin were traded for, other teams could have traded for them. Markstrom we signed, other teams could have signed him(and is our first real starter since kiprusoff), Tkachuk was 6th overall, meaning others could have had him. Calgary highest draft pick in franchise history is 4th overall because we try to compete every year, we didn't get good by being the joke of the NHL for multiple years. Then you add 2 of the best 5 players in the world and you still have won as many games in the 3 and 4th rounds as calgary in the last 15 years lol alot to be proud of forsure!

 

[Juxta Position]

Lol you're right! Making it one round further then getting you're asses kicked after the last decade, despite multiple first overall picks and being gifted the best player in the NHL is definitely much much better! Congrats on the third round exit though, after the last decade of abuse you guys definitely earned it

Also the flames and oilers have won the same amount of games in the playoffs in the last 15 years in the 3rd and 4th rounds of the playoffs.

I love how flames fans have to latch onto another teams success against the Oilers because their own team shit the bed against the Oilers in one of the most embarrassingly epic fashions ever.

Yes the Oilers got swept in the 3rd round, but the 3rd round is still 4 more games than the flames played. the Oilers could've lost every game 10-0 in that series against the Avs, and yet, no matter how badly they lost to the Avs, they still slapped the flames around and stole their lunch money.

 

[23Monahan]

I love how flames fans have to latch onto another teams success against the Oilers because their own team shit the bed against the Oilers in one of the most embarrassingly epic fashions ever.

Yes the Oilers got swept in the 3rd round, but the 3rd round is still 4 more games than the flames played. the Oilers could've lost every game 10-0 in that series against the Avs, and yet, no matter how badly they lost to the Avs, they still slapped the flames around and stole their lunch money.

And like I said after the last decade, and after failing multiple times with 2 or the best 5 players in the world, you guys deserves to make it to the third round!

Also my post was replying to someone who said the flames haven't made it to the third round in 15 years, well the Oilers haven't won a game in the third round in 15 years

 

[AvroArrow]

I love how flames fans have to latch onto another teams success against the Oilers because their own team shit the bed against the Oilers in one of the most embarrassingly epic fashions ever.

Yes the Oilers got swept in the 3rd round, but the 3rd round is still 4 more games than the flames played. the Oilers could've lost every game 10-0 in that series against the Avs, and yet, no matter how badly they lost to the Avs, they still slapped the flames around and stole their lunch money.

And they could win the Pacific again, and yet no matter how badly they dominated that division they still wouldn't be considered a real contender.

 

[ProdigalNuck]

What about Mike Smith's legendary playoff numbers?

What happened there?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I doubt it, he didn't train to be ready over the summer and he has legit injury issues. he de

as soon as woodcraft came in he fundamentally changed part of their system play, including how they defend blue line, forechcek and backcheck. Players also praised him on how clear and concise his messages were. I have a fair bit of faith in Woodcroft

So did Bylsma. He implemented a more aggressive forechecking system and I believe activated the defense more than Therien did. And the players praised him for it too.

But until he had full seasons under his belt to see how he handles all situations, you couldn't analyze how good (or bad) of a coach Bylsma actually was.

 

[onetweasy]

Lol you're right! Making it one round further then getting you're asses kicked after the last decade, despite multiple first overall picks and being gifted the best player in the NHL is definitely much much better! Congrats on the third round exit though, after the last decade of abuse you guys definitely earned it

Also the flames and oilers have won the same amount of games in the playoffs in the last 15 years in the 3rd and 4th rounds of the playoffs.

Yup one round further this year. It was pretty sweet to win the first BOA in like 30 years. But please keep pretending that the series didn't matter.

Also, thanks for pointing out that after going through "a decade of abuse" as an Oiler fan it turns out the Flames didn't even win more Round 3 and Round 4 games then the Oilers during that stretch.....So basically, during the Flames so called "golden age" over the Oilers the Flames didn't actually do anything of note. That sucks.

Don't worry we wont discuss what happened in the 80's with that whole dynasty thing.

 

[Juxta Position]

And they could win the Pacific again, and yet no matter how badly they dominated that division they still wouldn't be considered a real contender.

Much like how the Leafs will never be considered a true contender until they get out of the first round?

 

[bucks_oil]

I think this is a key. Is Woodcroft a good coach or did he give the team a "played well after new coach boost"?

I remember when the Pens first promoted Bylsma after firing Therien. They played great (even resulted in a Cup) and we all thought "coach of the future! more championships to come". Turns out Bylsma simply took Therien's existing structure, but loosened the reins and allowed more offensive freedom and the players responded to that -- for a short time.

After that, when Bylsma had fully implemented his own system, the team kept underachieving and never again reached the level they did immediately after he took over.

Is Woodcroft in the same boat where the players simply played well because he was a breath of fresh air after Tippett? Or is he a quality coach? This season should be telling.

To my eye at least there were major changes to the system with Woodcroft that were visible within a couple of games. There was far more puck support, which really improved our possession numbers.

He also managed the bench far differently than Tippett, including going to a 11-7 lineup many nights to help reduce pressure on his D and play them more situationally (which you need to do with guys like rookie Bouch and never-gonna-change Barrie). He also elevated youth that he was familiar with from the AHL, putting them in roles he knew they were capable of (like McLeod on PK).

Of course "new coach, players coach" fresh air factored in, but the above were not trivial changes, so I think Woody deserves all the credit he's had so far (honestly thought he had a case for coach of the year).

We'll see though... can he keep it going this year.

 

[McPoyle]

Lol you're right! Making it one round further then getting you're asses kicked after the last decade, despite multiple first overall picks and being gifted the best player in the NHL is definitely much much better! Congrats on the third round exit though, after the last decade of abuse you guys definitely earned it

Also the flames and oilers have won the same amount of games in the playoffs in the last 15 years in the 3rd and 4th rounds of the playoffs.

Fun fact. McDavid has now won as many rounds with the Oilers (3 in 7 years) as Iginla did in Calgary (3 in 16 years).

 

[AvroArrow]

Much like how the Leafs will never be considered a true contender until they get out of the first round?

Not quite, One team played in a division with 2 other contenders, one team played in a division that featured the worst teams in the playoffs. Seeing that they were swept in back to back years against non pacific teams is pretty telling.

In the last 5 years (missed the playoffs twice) Edmonton has won exactly 1 playoff game against a non-Pacific team. It's quite obvious to everyone outside of Edmonton what's happening lol, even without looking at the stats. Not all divisions are made the same, Edmonton is the best team in the Pacific but they don't even compare to the playoff teams outside the Pacific.

1W vs 11L against teams not in the Pacific in the playoffs in the last 5 years, do what you will with that.

 

[Saltcreek]

Not quite, One team played in a division with 2 other contenders, one team played in a division that featured the worst teams in the playoffs. Seeing that they were swept in back to back years against non pacific teams is pretty telling.

In the last 5 years (missed the playoffs twice) Edmonton has won exactly 1 playoff game against a non-Pacific team. It's quite obvious to everyone outside of Edmonton what's happening lol, even without looking at the stats. Not all divisions are made the same, Edmonton is the best team in the Pacific but they don't even compare to the playoff teams outside the Pacific.

1W vs 11L against teams not in the Pacific in the playoffs in the last 5 years, do what you will with that.

Still more playoff series wins than the Leafs. You can throw all those stones you want but the Leafs are a joke until they can actually win a series

 

[robertmac43]

If you get the first 20-game version of Campbell, then sure. If it's the Campbell the Leafs for the last 60ish games, tightly doubtful he turns anyone into a contender.

 

[Three On Zero]

primary and secondary what?

If you need to be told the difference between a primary and secondary… I can’t help ya

 

[TheNumber4]

The Leafs are a toxic environment, so Campbell should thrive with a much better team, with much better character, and a much better fanbase.

Career year incoming as is tradition when any player escapes Toronto.

 

[Three On Zero]

He had five more primary assists than Matthews had points lol.

He also played quite a few more games

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

And they could win the Pacific again, and yet no matter how badly they dominated that division they still wouldn't be considered a real contender.

Leafs lost to a bad Blue Jackets team and a worse Habs team last year

 

[Three On Zero]

"Primary points" = goals + primary assists.

You accused Draisaitl of racking up secondary assists.

In reality, among players with 20+ playoff points in any one season, Draisaitl's 21 primary points in 16 games is historically good. Like, outside of the 1980-1993 era, it's top six or seven all-time, I think.

You were wrong.

I talked about assists… I never said primary points… goals are irrelevant to the conversation at hand

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

If you need to be told the difference between a primary and secondary… I can’t help ya

if you can't tell the different between points and assists...I can't help ya

 

[Three On Zero]

if you can't tell the different between points and assists...I can't help ya

The initial comment was around assists and not points, moving the goal posts to “points” isn’t pertinent to the conversation