Are the Oilers a top 5 contender next season with Jack Campbell?

[AvroArrow]

And yet you are still talking about the Leafs rather than the topic on hand...

Leaf fans are not allowed to have opinions on the other 31 teams, fans start losing their shit. Give my opinion about where the Oilers stand "haha Leafs suck ! 1st round exit !" like bruh.

 

[The90]

Leaf fans are not allowed to have opinions on the other 31 teams, fans start losing their shit. Give my opinion about where the Oilers stand "haha Leafs suck ! 1st round exit !" like bruh.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Leafs fans narrative is that the first half of the season didn’t happen. Only the back half. Campbell through a comparable amount of games had a lot better save% than that.

December-May is way more than half the season.

 

[MessierII]

December-May is way more than half the season.

If you split his season in half his first 25 games he had a .939 save % his next 24 he had a .888

His first half was absolutely elite

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Leaf fans are not allowed to have opinions on the other 31 teams, fans start losing their shit. Give my opinion about where the Oilers stand "haha Leafs suck ! 1st round exit !" like bruh.

In fairness, other fans can't even comment in a Leaf-related thread without a bunch of Leaf fans going on about being Leaf obsessed. Case in point the ZAR PTO thread where half the posts seem to be Leaf fans saying something to the effect of "10 pages for a 4th liner PTO signing? Haha so obsessed with the Leafs".

So if a lot of Leaf fans are going to constantly play the "you're obsessed with us if you have an opinion" card in every Leaf thread, Leaf fans will unfortunately get the same treatment when they start posting in non-Leaf threads.

 

[Duke74]

if you can't tell the different between points and assists...I can't help ya

And apparently, the same poster considers goals "irrelevant."

 

[McDNicks17]

I just wonder how much their defense will be affected by the loss of Duncan Keith. I thought he was a solid top 4 d-man last year, who helped Evan Bouchard have a breakout year. Who replaces him? Broberg, Kulak, Ryan Murray? And what's the effect of losing a veteran defensive leader on the team?

Kulak was vastly better than Keith last year. He's taking his spot.

 

[Duke74]

The initial comment was around assists and not points, moving the goal posts to “points” isn’t pertinent to the conversation

If anybody is moving the goal posts in this conversation, it's you.

1. You accuse Draisaitl of not having a serious injury with your claim that "everyone plays through injuries in the playoffs" without elaborating on your statement to offer examples of players that played through debilitating injuries and put up 2PPG while doing so.

2. Then, when it was pointed out that his injury was significant, you claim the extent of his injury was unknown when he, along with many media personnel, CLEARLY came out and stated that he played with a high ankle sprain which is a SIGNIFICANT INJURY.

3. You refuse to listen to arguments that many elite players have a high amount of secondary assists and that records such as Gretzky's, which Draisaitl broke, existed in the first place due to the presence of secondary assists. It was also pointed out that other elite players such as Makar have a high rate of second assists but apparently he's a defencemen so he doesn't count.

4. After stating that Draisaitl "feasted" on second assists, now you say that his goals and total points are irrelevant.

Your arms must be exhausted by now. Just own up and take the freaking L.

 

[Peasy]

Average is all we needed after last year. It went between spectacular to atrocious with very little middle ground. It would have been nice to get "average" at a better cap hit, but average should still be a nice change. I'm still thinking we see close to a 50/50 split between Campbell and Skinner anyway.

Ironic that you're literally describing Campbell's season last year without even realizing it...

He was amazing, and then God awful. And then not great in the playoffs.

 

[North Cole]

Not stones, just facts. 1 and 11 in the last 5 years in the playoffs against non-Pacific teams. Level of competition, Oilers fan base has been steadily ignoring this so they can pump their chests "Made the WCF!" when in reality everyone knows the only reason they made it there is divisional playoffs.

I can't imagine anyone would consider a team that has a 8% win rate in the playoffs against non-divisional teams in a 5 year span, as a contender.

You can talk about the Leafs all you want even though this isn't a Leafs thread, but they've gone the distance in every single series and were actually able to put up respectable series against teams like Tampa/Boston. Edmonton's 1 win was against Chicago as well.

Funny enough if you go back 6-7 years they had wins against a good San Jose team, since that point the entire Pacific has become a shell of its former self.

Level of competition is impossible to quantify, that's why it's ignored. Both teams lost in the easy North division, we lost to CHI, you lost to CLB. Both teams have had their fair share of easier teams and have blown it.

You guys just sit there spinning fantasies about how you would make the cup final if you got past MTL and TB, but there's no basis for that in fact. I mean, the playoffs are divisional so any team that wins their divisional rounds gets to the CF, that's not exactly some secret. Try winning your divisional games and then you could also say "Made the ECF". You've been 2-3 over the last 5 years vs non-divisional teams and that team wasn't even good, so congrats on the extra win, I guess.

People rightfully have no issues having the Leafs in the top 5-10 teams each year and I would consider them a contender, because going the distance in a series is as irrelevant as the fact that a couple of our games vs COL were "close". We still got swept. Leafs still lost. No one cares unless you win the series and anyone can win at any time.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

Last year was "their year" and they blew it, downhill from here on out...

 

[Three On Zero]

1. You accuse Draisaitl of not having a serious injury with your claim that "everyone plays through injuries in the playoffs" without elaborating on your statement to offer examples of players that played through debilitating injuries and put up 2PPG while doing so.

2. Then, when it was pointed out that his injury was significant, you claim the extent of his injury was unknown when he, along with many media personnel, CLEARLY came out and stated that he played with a high ankle sprain which is a SIGNIFICANT INJURY.

3. You refuse to listen to arguments that many elite players have a high amount of secondary assists and that records such as Gretzky's, which Draisaitl broke, existed in the first place due to the presence of secondary assists. It was also pointed out that other elite players such as Makar have a high rate of second assists but apparently he's a defencemen so he doesn't count.

4. After stating that Draisaitl "feasted" on second assists, now you say that his goals and total points are irrelevant.

Your arms must be exhausted by now. Just own up and take the freaking L.

1. I stated players play through injuries every year which is true

2. High ankle sprains have several grades for severity. To my knowledge it was never released how severe it was. A generalization of high ankle sprain is a very broad term for the injury sustained

3. Comparing a forwards production to a defencemans production is asinine considering there role.

4. People trying to rebuttal with his goals and primary assist when the conversation was about secondary assists is still irrelevant to that topic

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Leaf fans are not allowed to have opinions on the other 31 teams, fans start losing their shit. Give my opinion about where the Oilers stand "haha Leafs suck ! 1st round exit !" like bruh.

I like how in a thread not even about the Leafs, you still make it about how Leafs fans are always the victims.

Btw, your opinion about how Ceci and Barrie wouldn’t make it on 31 other teams is why people would lose their shit. Because it’s a shitty take.

If someone said something as asinine as that for the Leafs, you’d be one of the first ones screaming about Leaf haterz. Don’t be a hypocrite.

 

[SnipeShowJB11]

If anybody is moving the goal posts in this conversation, it's you.

1. You accuse Draisaitl of not having a serious injury with your claim that "everyone plays through injuries in the playoffs" without elaborating on your statement to offer examples of players that played through debilitating injuries and put up 2PPG while doing so.

2. Then, when it was pointed out that his injury was significant, you claim the extent of his injury was unknown when he, along with many media personnel, CLEARLY came out and stated that he played with a high ankle sprain which is a SIGNIFICANT INJURY.

3. You refuse to listen to arguments that many elite players have a high amount of secondary assists and that records such as Gretzky's, which Draisaitl broke, existed in the first place due to the presence of secondary assists. It was also pointed out that other elite players such as Makar have a high rate of second assists but apparently he's a defencemen so he doesn't count.

4. After stating that Draisaitl "feasted" on second assists, now you say that his goals and total points are irrelevant.

Your arms must be exhausted by now. Just own up and take the freaking L.

Mic drop. I always have to give the kid credit. Oilers just live rent free

 

[North Cole]

One of these top point production forwards in the post season is not like the other for secondary assist percentage


1. I stated players play through injuries every year which is true

2. High ankle sprains have several grades for severity. To my knowledge it was never released how severe it was. A generalization of high ankle sprain is a very broad term for the injury sustained

3. Comparing a forwards production to a defencemans production is asinine considering there role.

4. People trying to rebuttal with his goals and primary assist when the conversation was about secondary assists is still irrelevant to that topic

Yes and his name is not Draisaitl, making your original premise that he is feasting wrong as pointed out, unless you would like to now state that everyone other than McDavid is feasting on secondary assists.

Moving the goal posts to talk about McDavid or Matthews not being like the others has nothing to do with Draisaitl being right in the same range as everyone else. Ironic you would do this when you are apparently so against people talking about total points because it's "moving the goal posts".

 

[PaulD]

I have my doubts about Murray because his decline lines up exactly with the reduction in pad sizes the league put out in 17-18. Even if he gets over his injury and confidence issues I find it unlikely he ever regains his 2016 form.

That would be a very safe bet

 

[OG Eberle]

1. I stated players play through injuries every year which is true

2. High ankle sprains have several grades for severity. To my knowledge it was never released how severe it was. A generalization of high ankle sprain is a very broad term for the injury sustained

3. Comparing a forwards production to a defencemans production is asinine considering there role.

4. People trying to rebuttal with his goals and primary assist when the conversation was about secondary assists is still irrelevant to that topic

1. A bruised elbow is not the same as a torn hipflexor or a high ankle sprain. Not all injuries are the same and any point to the contrary is pure ignorance.

2. A high ankle sprain is not a "very broad term for the injury sustained". While high ankle sprains have different levels of severity, they are serious injuries. You don't just rub some dirt on one or throw tape on it. Treatment is routinely immobilization in a boot for several weeks initially depending on severity. It's debilitating for every step you take as the actual joint itself and not just the ligaments are involved. Being in icehockey with high skates, it makes it easier to attempt to play through than sports like soccer/football where there is no high ankle support, but its excrutiating still due to the lateral nature of a stride and uneven pressure on the bottom of the skate. Theres a reason why you see players with high ankle sprains miss 4-12 weeks in the regular season.

3. Why are secondary assists okay for offensive defensemen but theyre "inflating" or any less important for a forward? Yet to see justification for this.

4. You've yet to describe why a secondary assist is any less important than the primary.

 

[PaulD]

He just re-signed (a 5.1MM contract) as a UFA. Doesn't sound like a bidding war. Pretty well Kyle Palmieri money.
Definitely all-star caliber.

Leading goal scores in last years pay offs
Mackinnon 13
Kane 13

 

[The90]

I like how in a thread not even about the Leafs, you still make it about how Leafs fans are always the victims.

Btw, your opinion about how Ceci and Barrie wouldn’t make it on 31 other teams is why people would lose their shit. Because it’s a shitty take.

If someone said something as asinine as that for the Leafs, you’d be one of the first ones screaming about Leaf haterz. Don’t be a hypocrite.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Jack Campbell made the All star game last year so he's good.

 

[Three On Zero]

1. A bruised elbow is not the same as a torn hipflexor or a high ankle sprain. Not all injuries are the same and any point to the contrary is pure ignorance.

2. A high ankle sprain is not a "very broad term for the injury sustained". While high ankle sprains have different levels of severity, they are serious injuries. You don't just rub some dirt on one or throw tape on it. Treatment is routinely immobilization in a boot for several weeks initially depending on severity. It's debilitating for every step you take as the actual joint itself and not just the ligaments are involved. Being in icehockey with high skates, it makes it easier to attempt to play through than sports like soccer/football where there is no high ankle support, but its excrutiating still due to the lateral nature of a stride and uneven pressure on the bottom of the skate. Theres a reason why you see players with high ankle sprains miss 4-12 weeks in the regular season.

3. Why are secondary assists okay for offensive defensemen but theyre "inflating" or any less important for a forward? Yet to see justification for this.

4. You've yet to describe why a secondary assist is any less important than the primary.

It is a very broad term, it can result
in no missed time or up to around 270 days recovery. Of hockey players who miss time due to a high ankle sprain the average recovery is 22 days.

A high ankle sprain is far more severe than a low ankle sprain. I will give you that

Jack Campbell made the All star game last year so he's good.

Mike Smith was one of the best outlet passers in hockey as a goalie. It will be interesting to see a more conservative goalie playing for Edmonton full time

 

[Duke74]

1. I stated players play through injuries every year which is true

2. High ankle sprains have several grades for severity. To my knowledge it was never released how severe it was. A generalization of high ankle sprain is a very broad term for the injury sustained

3. Comparing a forwards production to a defencemans production is asinine considering there role.

4. People trying to rebuttal with his goals and primary assist when the conversation was about secondary assists is still irrelevant to that topic

You're persistent, I'll give you that. But your logical reasoning still....lacks.

1. You have yet to address the fact that injuries differ based on their severity. Playing through a tiny bruise is a lot different from being able to barely move.

2. How's the "so badly hobbled I need pain injections and can barely skate without pain shooting up my entire body" grade for you?

3. Nobody compared Draisaitl's overall production directly to Makar's overall production. We were comparing their second assists. The same thing that you claimed you were discussing when you declared goals and total points "irrelevant."

4. Why are goals and total points not relevant? If anything, they're more indicative of a player's overall production than differentiating between primary and secondary assists. And primary assists? Isn't that what you're using in your own measurement when you say that Draisaitl's primary assists are too low? You're twisting the conversation by only including stats that you think will make the player seem unproductive.

5. Finally, regarding second assists, you do realize that not all second assists are created alike? A player can bounce a shot off two guys' butts or make an amazing move to pass to a guy to tap it to the goal scorer. So unless you're going to break down each and every one of his second assists, your argument holds no water.

 

[AvroArrow]

I like how in a thread not even about the Leafs, you still make it about how Leafs fans are always the victims.

Btw, your opinion about how Ceci and Barrie wouldn’t make it on 31 other teams is why people would lose their shit. Because it’s a shitty take.

If someone said something as asinine as that for the Leafs, you’d be one of the first ones screaming about Leaf haterz. Don’t be a hypocrite.

I didn't make about the Leafs, you and your fellow Oilers fans did because you can't handle something a person from Toronto said. So instead of discussing the topic you discuss their team.

Ceci and Barrie would not make any other team as a regular. If there is an injury to a bottom pair guy, maybe you can throw Barrie in. At least he can skate/pass somewhat decent. Ceci couldn't play in Ottawa when their team was a dumpster fire, came to Toronto and was just as bad. Both of those guys got the boot out of TO for being so horrible. I mean if you guys are happy with them then sure, but no one else thinks that D core is even remotely close to being average, forget about good.

Also pretty sure everyone was laughing at Ceci/Barrie and us for icing them when we had them here but sure.

Some people really living in a fantasy world, still riding the high off winning the Pacific. Playoff record in the last 5 years against non-Pacific teams is 1-11, the sole win came against the mighty Chicago Blackhawks. There's a reason why despite being the best team in the Pacific, the Oilers get annihilated once they play a non-Pacific team. Level of competition in other divisions vs the Pacific is not even remotely close to being the same. The sooner Oilers fans recognize this, the sooner they'll see what the problem is with their team and why they're not considered top 5. No depth and one of the worst blue lines in the league.

 

[Three On Zero]

I didn't make about the Leafs, you and your fellow Oilers fans did because you can't handle something a person from Toronto said. So instead of discussing the topic you discuss their team.

Ceci and Barrie would not make any other team as a regular. If there is an injury to a bottom pair guy, maybe you can throw Barrie in. At least he can skate/pass somewhat decent. Ceci couldn't play in Ottawa when their team was a dumpster fire, came to Toronto and was just as bad. Both of those guys got the boot out of TO for being so horrible. I mean if you guys are happy with them then sure, but no one else thinks that D core is even remotely close to being average, forget about good.

Also pretty sure everyone was laughing at Ceci/Barrie and us for icing them when we had them here but sure.

Some people really living in a fantasy world, still riding the high off winning the Pacific. Playoff record in the last 5 years against non-Pacific teams is 1-11, the sole win came against the mighty Chicago Blackhawks. There's a reason why despite being the best team in the Pacific, the Oilers get annihilated once they play a non-Pacific team. Level of competition in other divisions vs the Pacific is not even remotely close to being the same. The sooner Oilers fans recognize this, the sooner they'll see what the problem is with their team and why they're not considered top 5. No depth and one of the worst blue lines in the league.

Nurse, Barrie, Bouchard and Broberg are all offensively minded defenceman. Couple that with Campbells Jekyll and Hyde play. It will be tough for Edmonton to our score their opponent every night

 

[MessierII]

Last year was "their year" and they blew it, downhill from here on out...

You wish