Speculation: Are Matthews and Marner Choke Artists in Playoffs?

[Raym11]

Matthews hasnt been completely invisible when not scoring, but man, did he look completely out of it in game 5, no energy.

They've had a ton of chances but havent gelled with Hyman since he came back. Marner has looked lazy as well.


Havent noticed Marner since the bubble game where he blocked a shot and was heralded a playoff warrior

 

[egd27]

Compared to their regular season output, that's paltry. Consider that a) the league goal output in the playoffs this year is about even to the regular season (2.852 vs 2.898) and b) stars are expected to increase their output in the playoffs, not decrease them, those totals aren't even decent, let alone impressive.

I'll grant small sample size, perhaps, but it's still not good either way. Your stars are supposed to carry you through the playoffs. Marner and Matthews seem incapable of that, at least so far.

Please read the post again in the context of which it was written.

 

[Leafsdude7]

Please read the post again in the context of which it was written.

Fair enough. The points I made still stand, regardless.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

It was completely that last game for me. WTF moment. Playing scared and stupid when it should have been intense energy and confidence. It was a bad look

See that's the thing it might be strictly last game for you but it's not for others, for others it's game 7 2013 up by 3 with 10 minutes to go, it's game 7 2018 up by 1 in the 3rd, it's game 3 in 2020 up by 3, it's game 5 2021 comeback falls short.

THAT is why people like me exist that say the regular season is irrelevant and this team will be judged on the playoffs because we have seen it all

 

[Daisy Jane]

I know for a lot of people, only goals count as "producing", but in the 5 years you reference. (30 GP)

Matthews - 23 points
Marner - 25 points

lol that is awesome

 

[Cypruss]

Get the hell outta here with this negative bs

When 34 has his hat-trick in game 2 of the third round, we can come back and review this topic.

 

[Sniper99]

Sure as heck looking like these guys don’t have what it takes to even win a round. Just pure crap play. They look lazy and uninvolved in every way. $22,000,000 of giveaways and missed shots. Incredible how they choke and don’t rise to the top. That was a disgusting game. Unfortunately it’s a pattern. All talk from them two and no action. If we win they won’t be the ones that helped.

Lots said on here in the regular season that they don’t care how good we finish the regular season and it’s about what we do in the p,ayoffs. I didn’t agree, i am starting to see what they meant watching these guys disrespect the fans with this crap efforts they produce

I mean, really?

 

[Stonehands1990]

Matthews hasnt been completely invisible when not scoring, but man, did he look completely out of it in game 5, no energy.

They've had a ton of chances but havent gelled with Hyman since he came back. Marner has looked lazy as well.


Havent noticed Marner since the bubble game where he blocked a shot and was heralded a playoff warrior

He has no energy because the coaches play him way too much. 24 min a game is stupid, and he’s visibly tired on the ice

 

[3blizzard4]

Habs GTD thread asking if AM34 is awake. Even they know what’s up.

 

[ToneDog]

He has no energy because the coaches play him way too much. 24 min a game is stupid, and he’s visibly tired on the ice

Landsberg recommends:

 

[Cypruss]

So, here's a look at all skaters with a cap hit of $10.5M or more. It shows their games played, goals, points, points per game, and goals per game. I also added points per 30 games and goals per 30 games to better put the percentages in context.

View attachment 440266

And more importantly, only 3 of those 10+ million dollar players are still in the playoffs....just the Leaf players. Do whatever it takes to win. Playoffs are a team game, not an individual player game. Ask McDri about that.

 

[Leafs USA]

This forum really lends itself to hyperbolic hot takes. It's not even Leafs fans. This just seems to be the way of the world online.

The more controversial, the better. False dichotomies all over the place. Real fans getting trolled hard by wind up merchants. It's a warzone.

 

[keonsbitterness]

This forum really lends itself to hyperbolic hot takes. It's not even Leafs fans. This just seems to be the way of the world online.

The more controversial, the better. False dichotomies all over the place. Real fans getting trolled hard by wind up merchants. It's a warzone.

The ability to be anonymous is ruining the world.

 

[MeSorry]

There's a reason why star players tend to be invisible against checking teams. Usually 2-3 sticks are always near them. just look at Crosby and McDavid play. Zero room to do anything, even for Matthews just no room. Marner on the other hand, the kid holds holds holds hold hold hold hold hold, passses, passes,passes,passes,passes,passes,passes. When he does, it's either oh hey look he gave it away tape to tape to the other team. Or he holds so long that the other team retrieves the puck from him. You'll notice the commentators say he has a a lot of patients, many times throughout the series. Lead by and he lost the puck. It doesn't help that every time you see Marner play, he refuses to check and skates forward. Which leads to them flying by him, and he has to back check to assert spacing on the D end.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Matthews hasnt been completely invisible when not scoring, but man, did he look completely out of it in game 5, no energy.

They've had a ton of chances but havent gelled with Hyman since he came back. Marner has looked lazy as well.


Havent noticed Marner since the bubble game where he blocked a shot and was heralded a playoff warrior

Unless we're thinking of different blocked shots, I'm pretty sure that shot he blocked in the last minute was against Boston in 2019. Been all downhill since.

 

[aresknights]

As a Habs fan these 2 worry me heading into tonight. They have been the Habs focus n have been limited this series SO FAR but both can makes plays without much space or time. It'll come, just hopefully not tonight. The are also facing a line ( most of the time ) with a great rep for playing top lines well.
Matthew's has too many ways to burn ya to be held quiet much longer unless dinged up n even then he is an elite scorer.
Saw Marner every game in London n being involved in minor hockey midget level know that the kids passion n desire isn't an issue by talking with staffs n having him out to practice. Just gripping it a bit tight right now. It'll click ( hopefully next ysar)
Enjoy the game.

 

[Leafidelity]

it's not weird, there are a lot of posters on here upset with the winning and are looking for something to hold on to.

Pretty much. Some people have based their entire online personas around it.

 

[DarkKnight]

As a Habs fan these 2 worry me heading into tonight. They have been the Habs focus n have been limited this series SO FAR but both can makes plays without much space our time. It'll come, just hopefully not tonight. The are also facing a line ( most of the time ) with a great rep for playing top lines well.
Matthew's has to many ways to burn ya to be held quiet much longer unless dinged up n even then he us an elite scorer.
Saw Marner every game in London n being involved in minor hockey midget level know that the kids passion n desire isn't an issue. Just gripping it a bit tight right now. It'll click ( hopefully next ysar)
Enjoy the game.

Thanks for mentioning this, the whole game plan if your team seems to be to shut them down. This allows other lines to face “lesser” comp and you expect some success. It’s more complicated a single line and extrapolating. The Leafs are up 3-2 and part of that success goes to the top line, although obviously a few goals are required.

 

[kabidjan18]

I only read part of the title and thought it said "are marner and Matthews chosen ones?"

 

[The Apologist]

Matthews shouldn't be lumped in with Marner even though he's been poor this series. The only other playoff series where he was bad was 2018 Bruins where he was playing injured

Isn't Auston leading the team in hits while having 4pts in 5?

 

[mac nylander]

OP actually forgot it's been the leafs vs carey price.

pls delete thread.

 

[lovemyleafs]

Marner definitely is.
He folds under the spotlight.
Not saying he can't turn it around. He's still young so I hope as he gains more playoff experience, the more dangerous he becomes.

 

[saffronleaf]

This forum really lends itself to hyperbolic hot takes. It's not even Leafs fans. This just seems to be the way of the world online.

The more controversial, the better. False dichotomies all over the place. Real fans getting trolled hard by wind up merchants. It's a warzone.

Agreed, it seems to be the way of the world online. Admittedly I've partaken in such hyperbole, too.

 

[Menzinger]

Questions/threads like this mid-series (one where the Leafs are winning I might add) are always way premature. Nobody here should blink if both guys have a huge night in a couple hours.

Both guys have been fine this series, Matthews is generating a ton of shots and can't catch a lucky bounce and Marner has been great defensively (though imo over thinking things too much in the offensive zone). The tandem is also dominating control of the puck

Though I also agree that "fine" isn't good enough given their expectations. They are expected to find a way to overcome these challenges and need to start (the sooner the better)

 

[Menzinger]

Coaching issue rather than a player issue.

When Babcock was coach he played Matthews and Marner on different lines, because both are capable of driving offense, and separated it makes it harder for the opposition to shut them down. That is why even when they were just 19 + 20 years old they performed well against Washington and Boston, even as underdogs and outmatched in those series.

However Keefe hasn't figured this out yet, which plays right into the hand of the opposition game plan as both CBJ and Montreal even as underdogs only need 1 good shutdown line of players to match-up against Leafs top 2 players and every team has a few good defensive players able to do this.

People can't understand why Matthews and Marner are getting shutout and shutdown by CBJ and now MON now 23 & 24 years old, but the answer is really quite simple .. "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" . Keefe thinks the solution is more ice-time as he overplays Matthews and Marner, which reduces their effectiveness particularly late in games.

This is more about poor game plan, then it is execution by the players. This is only going to become more prominent an issue/problem as the opposition gets stronger.

It also explains why Nylander, Kerfoot and Galchenyuk are outplaying AM and MM statistically, as Montreal is focused on Matthews line and not deep enough to shutdown multiple lines. So they take out the most dangerous line, and willing to take their chances against Leafs secondary scoring vs their own to decide games. Result being some close 2-1 games and now a 3-2 game series.

While there is a logic to this at the same.rime splitting them up didn't lead Babcock to any post season success with the Leafs either. So the point ends up a bit mute.

I'm not sure the Leafs would benefit given the structure of the current team with Marner playing alongside Soup or Spezza. Ultimately 2 of the big three will need to play alongside one another in the top 6