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Speculation: Are Matthews and Marner Choke Artists in Playoffs?

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AllDay28 said:
Matthew and Marner both have 4 points in 5 games. Talk about a bunch of chokers mirite

remember all world forward Taylor Hall that everyone here wanted for a 1st... he has 3.. talk about a chokerrrr
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Id assume people are complaining about 0ne 5 on 5 goal for the line in 5 games.
 
Volcanologist said:
it's not weird, there are a lot of posters on here upset with the winning and are looking for something to hold on to.
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Actually, everyone here was positive as hell when we were up 3-1. I'd go as far as to say too positive and borderline arrogant.

But the loss on Thursday awoke demons and reminded us all just how impossibly difficult it is for our core to close out a series. And when we look at why it's so hard for this team to win a series, we see that our core players, time and time again, underperform.

The leafs lost 4 playoff series in a row. In the final game on each of those series (4 games total) Matthews has 1 goal/0 assists. Marner has 0 goals and 1 assist.

It's really unacceptable.

Even though we're up 3-2, people are right to be calling these guys out.
 
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Throw More Waffles said:
Actually, everyone here was positive as hell when we were up 3-1. I'd go as far as to say too positive and borderline arrogant.

But the loss on Thursday awoke demons and reminded us all just how impossibly difficult it is for our core to close out a series. And when we look at why it's so hard for this team to win a series, we see that our core players, time and time again, underperform.

The leafs lost 4 playoff series in a row. In the final game on each of those series (4 games total) Matthews has 1 goal/0 assists. Marner has 0 goals and 1 assist.

It's really unacceptable.

Even though we're up 3-2, people are right to be calling these guys out.
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I was one of those overly confident posters.

They fooled me into thinking Leafs in 5, though my original prediction was Leafs in 6.

Then the doubt starts to creep in and activates the PTSD, and all bets are off.

With that said, I really do believe these guys can close it out tonight, as they should.

Matthews and Marner need to take the bull by the horns and just get it DONE.
 
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I admit this thread is going overboard too soon. But these 2 guys have expectations on them that are completely fair based on their contracts and results over the regular season. They were top 5 scorers in the league. They have all the talent in the world to score and if the team is unsuccessful, they should and will take a majority of the blame.

Dubas stated at the start of last season (or end of last season) that they noticed the reason Tampa won the cup was that they're top players were leading the charge (I'm paraphrasing of course). Either way, he mentioned it was communicated to the teams top players being Matthews and co. that there will be much more expectations on them and, in not so many words, they are responsible for how far this team goes.

As it should be, if we don't get the results, the blame should go to them. Completely reasonable considering how much Dubas has invested in them.
 
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Bluelines said:
Not so sure its mentally weak as it is they have not figured out how to play playoff hockey. There is more focus on the stars and players like Matthews and Marner. Much tighter checking. they will figure it out, and they will be dominant. Questions is: Is it this year, next year, years down the road? Matthews and Marner are too good offensively to have this a every playoff thing. Maybe they need to change their game plan, Perhaps Matthews is the heavy forechecker and Hyman sits in front of the net for the pass/tip. Sometimes you need to reinvent yourself in sports to be effective.

I have noticed Marner seems to be shooting A LOT more in the paly offs, perhaps that is why Matthews is scorign less?
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Marner should be rushing the net and jamming pucks in. If anyone has the skill to take it right in it’s him and he doesn’t. Hockey IQ was supposed to be a thing with him. Sure shoot but jam the net too. He’s predictable no....
 
Throw More Waffles said:
Actually, everyone here was positive as hell when we were up 3-1. I'd go as far as to say too positive and borderline arrogant.

But the loss on Thursday awoke demons and reminded us all just how impossibly difficult it is for our core to close out a series. And when we look at why it's so hard for this team to win a series, we see that our core players, time and time again, underperform.

The leafs lost 4 playoff series in a row. In the final game on each of those series (4 games total) Matthews has 1 goal/0 assists. Marner has 0 goals and 1 assist.

It's really unacceptable.

Even though we're up 3-2, people are right to be calling these guys out.
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That's why it's important to stay even-keeled during a playoff series. Don't get too high and don't get too low. This goes for both players and fans.

I think the media is to blame for this. They get hyper after a win and the world starts ending after a loss.

Yes, Matty and Marner can put up better offensive numbers but the goal is to win the series. If they do that, it doesn't matter if Adam Brooks had the most points or Matthews. This type of criticism is best reserved for after a playoff series is lost not when the team is leading 3-2.
 
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This is definitely a morbid topic to visit on the eve of a very winnable Game 6...

But the general histories of both Matthews and Marner would say they're headed towards playoff underachiever status, if not there already. I wouldn't say choker, because Columbus and Montreal are only the first two series where Toronto was a clear cut favourite. But remember, we are on a "redemption tour" after the Columbus series which required the injection of a ton of "adult supervision." At this point, they can either re-write their early career reputations or add to the futility. Completely up to them.
 
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Wafflewhipper said:
Sure as heck looking like these guys don’t have what it takes to even win a round. Just pure crap play. They look lazy and uninvolved in every way. $22,000,000 of giveaways and missed shots. Incredible how they choke and don’t rise to the top. That was a disgusting game. Unfortunately it’s a pattern. All talk from them two and no action. If we win they won’t be the ones that helped.

Lots said on here in the regular season that they don’t care how good we finish the regular season and it’s about what we do in the p,ayoffs. I didn’t agree, i am starting to see what they meant watching these guys disrespect the fans with this crap efforts they produce
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As somebody that said the regular season was irrelevant, in fact I'm probably the main guy that said it, welcome to our side
 
HamiltonNHL said:
How does that fare against other people making 10M+ ?
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So, here's a look at all skaters with a cap hit of $10.5M or more. It shows their games played, goals, points, points per game, and goals per game. I also added points per 30 games and goals per 30 games to better put the percentages in context.

Over105.png
 
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This thread is more about the failure of Dubas than it is any player to me. Do I think Leafs players are overpaid? Is poop brown? While I think certain players have taken advantage of Dubas more than others, it's clear that Dubas just can't negotiate contracts at the NHL level.
 
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What did Marner say last time, “ I need to score more”. 5 games in to this series and 16 straight play off games with no goals. Yeah he’s clever figuring that one out
 
They are players who don't do well with physicality... Although mathews looks to be doing better this year, they are really shy against physical play (so pretty much any playoff team). It is what it is, they aren't mackinnon or crosby who thrive during the playoffs. But with Mathews/marner they will get you into the playoffs.

A solution to help them i think would be if Mathews was flanked by Hyman and Foligno, and Marner with Simmonds and another physical player maybe that would help
 
LEAFANFORLIFE23 said:
As somebody that said the regular season was irrelevant, in fact I'm probably the main guy that said it, welcome to our side
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Yeah and i likely argued with you. Not tday will you hear a peep from me. There was fear in their game not determination and was i disgusted.
 
Wafflewhipper said:
Yeah and i likely argued with you. Not tday will you hear a peep from me. There was fear in their game not determination and was i disgusted.
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That's not the fans fault, that's the team's fault, that's what happens when you have years of blown leads and comebacks that fall short
 
egd27 said:
I know for a lot of people, only goals count as "producing", but in the 5 years you reference. (30 GP)

Matthews - 23 points
Marner - 25 points
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Compared to their regular season output, that's paltry. Consider that a) the league goal output in the playoffs this year is about even to the regular season (2.852 vs 2.898) and b) stars are expected to increase their output in the playoffs, not decrease them, those totals aren't even decent, let alone impressive.

I'll grant small sample size, perhaps, but it's still not good either way. Your stars are supposed to carry you through the playoffs. Marner and Matthews seem incapable of that, at least so far.
 
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LEAFANFORLIFE23 said:
That's not the fans fault, that's the team's fault, that's what happens when you have years of blown leads and comebacks that fall short
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It was completely that last game for me. WTF moment. Playing scared and stupid when it should have been intense energy and confidence. It was a bad look
 
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