Speculation: Are Matthews and Marner Choke Artists in Playoffs?

[Fogelhund]

There is no question that for us to go deep into the playoffs, our best players, need to be our MVP's. So far they haven't, and there is no getting around that. But, it's just been a few games, and we are winning the series. Our depth guys have done great, and M&M haven't been scored against. Yes, we need more from them, and hopefully they will provide that, as we go along. These two are going to go off soon, and have multiple point games, and be well over PPG.... We do need some patience here.

 

[Stinger8]

This fan base is so toxic. We need to win a couple of rounds to get rid of this stuff.

didn’t Matthews score like 5 goals against Boston last time?

This is exactly like all fan bases. I lived in Montreal for 6 years try listening to sports talk radio in Montreal after the Habs lose 5-1 on a November evening. 75% of the callers want a coach fired, a few players traded and every ref dismissed forever from future NHL assignments

 

[nsleaf]

Sure as heck looking like these guys don’t have what it takes to even win a round. Just pure crap play. They look lazy and uninvolved in every way. $22,000,000 of giveaways and missed shots. Incredible how they choke and don’t rise to the top. That was a disgusting game. Unfortunately it’s a pattern. All talk from them two and no action. If we win they won’t be the ones that helped.

Lots said on here in the regular season that they don’t care how good we finish the regular season and it’s about what we do in the p,ayoffs. I didn’t agree, i am starting to see what they meant watching these guys disrespect the fans with this crap efforts they produce

Usually you blame the refs.

 

[Cappuccino]

You know who had half as many points as either marner or matthews this playoffs? And a +/- 4 points lower than each of them? 3x cup winner Sidney Crosby...

and where is Crosby now? Only one team will win this year of course, but comparing our players to players who are already golfing, won’t cut it.

 

[shaner82]

I'm not surprised they are being kept off the score board. Montreal plays very good playoff hockey. They aren't skilled enough for the regular season, but in a 7 game series, they do a great job of taking away space out there.

Furthermore, neither Marner or Hyman are threats to score, so Montreal is smothering Matthews and daring Hyman and Marner to beat them. Unlike Boston's top line, only one of our guys can score consistently.

Despite that, they are playing very well. They're dominating Montreal and haven't allowed a goal against yet.

I agree they need to produce, but to call them lazy shows you're just a troll looking to get a reaction

 

[Budz22]

This guy traded Nylander to the Wild for Marcus Foligno in the mock trade deadline.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Crazy how some people think being a fan of a team means you hate them and talk shit about them until they win the championship.

 

[Koolboss]

You know why leaf mantra is we can’t have nice things? Because of fans like these. These are the best leaf players most of us will ever see. Be thankful. They have been dominate. And even if the numbers aren’t crazy, they are playing great defense.

On the score sheet YES, talk to me when they win something that matters

 

[shortfuze]

Weird thread considering we are up 3-2 in the series.

Why is it a weird thread? Just because they’re up doesn’t mean it can’t be true.

 

[Voodoo Child]

Despite not putting up many points, Matthews has the game 2 GWG and 13 goals in 30 games is pretty good. He's been a handful for the Habs in all three zones.

Mitch is playing fine PK and two way hockey.

And even still...it's starting to concern me, especially Mitch.

 

[BudForLife]

Totally fair. However this is the 5th playoffs with this core. Matthews has proven he can produce. Marner has not. People are frustrated

I can understand the frustration but I really think we all have to calm down a little.

Let's not forget that our goaltending and defence has also been a major factor in losing those series.

All I'm saying is that it's not over yet.

So big improvement on defence this year.

Goaltending is good but not proven yet.

Matthews is Matthews.

Marner may turn it around.

Tavares could be back.

Foligno will be back.

I've found over the years that when advancing in the playoffs each series has it's own hero. So far this series looks like Willy is the man.

Hoping that we advance. It will be interesting to see who steps up each series.

 

[justloveleafs]

Whenever you play the playoffs, I personally think, winning series, in the fewest amount of games, is generally, the best thing.

If we don't finish off the Habs tonight, I don't think we will go all that far in the playoffs.

Same for Las Vegas, no way should they have gone seven with the Wild.

Critical we win tonight, get a few days off.

Sandin would be better against Winnipeg, Dermott, played really well, sends a bad message being taken out after playing that well.

 

[Mess]

Coaching issue rather than a player issue.

When Babcock was coach he played Matthews and Marner on different lines, because both are capable of driving offense, and separated it makes it harder for the opposition to shut them down. That is why even when they were just 19 + 20 years old they performed well against Washington and Boston, even as underdogs and outmatched in those series.

However Keefe hasn't figured this out yet, which plays right into the hand of the opposition game plan as both CBJ and Montreal even as underdogs only need 1 good shutdown line of players to match-up against Leafs top 2 players and every team has a few good defensive players able to do this.

People can't understand why Matthews and Marner are getting shutout and shutdown by CBJ and now MON now 23 & 24 years old, but the answer is really quite simple .. "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" . Keefe thinks the solution is more ice-time as he overplays Matthews and Marner, which reduces their effectiveness particularly late in games.

This is more about poor game plan, then it is execution by the players. This is only going to become more prominent an issue/problem as the opposition gets stronger.

It also explains why Nylander, Kerfoot and Galchenyuk are outplaying AM and MM statistically, as Montreal is focused on Matthews line and not deep enough to shutdown multiple lines. So they take out the most dangerous line, and willing to take their chances against Leafs secondary scoring vs their own to decide games. Result being some close 2-1 games and now a 3-2 game series.

 

[ottomaddox]

By Matthews and Marners standards they are not performing as well as we'd like them to. I don't think they are choke artists though. Marner's 1st playoff was good, Matthews played well last year in the play-in series.
I think they will both break out soon. If they eliminate MTL tonight there's still a lot of playoffs to play.

 

[Suntouchable13]

If they lose this series, they most definitely are.

 

[banks]

You know why leaf mantra is we can’t have nice things? Because of fans like these. These are the best leaf players most of us will ever see. Be thankful. They have been dominate. And even if the numbers aren’t crazy, they are playing great defense.

Matthews and marner both with 4 points in 5 games, winning 3 games out of 5, matthews extremely dominate numbers, marner is shutting them out on the pk. It’s like you think leafs have to be 16-0 and avg 2 pts a game to be successful. The other teams are good too and trying their best to shut them down. Any team we ever face has a plan all around how to shut this pair down. Calm down plZ

Dominant.

Dominate is something you do. Dominant is something you are.

 

[DarkKnight]

 

[WinB4IDIE]

Sure as heck looking like these guys don’t have what it takes to even win a round. Just pure crap play. They look lazy and uninvolved in every way. $22,000,000 of giveaways and missed shots. Incredible how they choke and don’t rise to the top. That was a disgusting game. Unfortunately it’s a pattern. All talk from them two and no action. If we win they won’t be the ones that helped.

Lots said on here in the regular season that they don’t care how good we finish the regular season and it’s about what we do in the p,ayoffs. I didn’t agree, i am starting to see what they meant watching these guys disrespect the fans with this crap efforts they produce

You are BANG on, I've been saying this for years and I keep getting banned! The Leafs are built WRONG!! Full of soft little girls! They can't compete in the playoffs! They are built to satisfy the Toronto area and that means soft little boys like the fan base in T.O! No way can they beat teams built with MEN! The Leafs WILL LOSE to Montreal and you know what? All the people on here will continue to make excuses! I really think 90% of the so called fans on here are employees of MLSE!!

 

[AllDay28]

Matthew and Marner both have 4 points in 5 games. Talk about a bunch of chokers mirite

remember all world forward Taylor Hall that everyone here wanted for a 1st... he has 3.. talk about a chokerrrr

 

[egd27]

Totally fair. However this is the 5th playoffs with this core. Matthews has proven he can produce. Marner has not. People are frustrated

I know for a lot of people, only goals count as "producing", but in the 5 years you reference. (30 GP)

Matthews - 23 points
Marner - 25 points

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I know for a lot of people, only goals count as "producing", but in the 5 years you reference. (30 GP)

Matthews - 23 points
Marner - 25 points

How does that fare against other people making 10M+ ?

 

[ShaneFalco]

keep getting banned! The Leafs are built WRONG!! Full of soft little girls!

Gee I wonder why

 

[egd27]

Crazy how some people think being a fan of a team means you hate them and talk shit about them until they win the championship.

A lot people only complain when you talk shit about their sacred cows, but are totally cool when it comes to other members of the team.

 

[egd27]

How does that fare against other people making 10M+ ?

I don't know, I was comparing the output of Matthews (allegedly producing) with the output of Marner (allegedly not producing) over the past 5 years as per the post I quoted.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I don't know, I was comparing the output of Matthews (allegedly producing) with the output of Marner (allegedly not producing) over the past 5 years as per the post I quoted.

Do goals.