Anyone else concerned about Matthews?

[ULF_55]

Let's be fair here ... everyone is concerned whether they acknowledge it or not.

He's tied for 25th. in goals scored after winning the Rocket last year.

Now, if the question is are you in a panic, or do you think he's on the downside of his career the answer would likely be no.

He isn't the same player as last year, even if he appears to be more focused on defense, and I question whether there is a dramatic improvement in that regardless of his scoring.

For the playoffs Leafs need Matthews to elevate his game, but this would be a funny way to elevate your post-season by diminishing the regular season, and then claiming improvement in the post season by returning to your normal production.

He's in the pack of a bunch of players, not near the top of those players.

He's compensated to be at the top.

 

[therealkoho]

Seth Jones and Nurse signed in the same time frame for well above what the Leafs paid for their comparable player

Neither of those two guys signed anywhere near their market value both contracts are boat anchors

 

[therealkoho]

The kid is a monster. While mcd is piling up points Matthews is playing hurt and being the best defence center the universe. Prob multiple universe's. He's going to be a monster in the playoffs and score clutch goals. He's literally the best all round player in the world and he's had a down year from injuries and played through them like the goddamn monster he is. Zero percent worried about him because he will shine in the right moment.

That wins the internet and sets the standard for all hockey posts to come, in fact this might actually be the only true "market value" post ever!

 

[baton elevated]

The elephant in the room is not whether AM is s great player or not but rather can he be re-signed to a reasonable contract and for 8 years. Is he a flight risk? Will we have enough money to build around him or are we better off with assets we can receive for him and build a possibly great team in doing so.

If you receive 3-4 pieces you can address many facets of the team. 2 pieces alone will get you the 60 goals back and then maybe a clear cut #1 defenseman and 1st round pick.

Another issue is his health, for a big man he is hurt alot. Playing only 65-70 games a year has to taken into consideration on the contract dollars.
If we lost him to a trade or walking away, I'm convinced that McDavid would come the following year anyway.

 

[Aashir]

Scoring more points doesn’t equal a better player though. Nylander is the most likely on the team to back away from a puck in the corner, or to lose track of the puck along the boards and start looking up at the rafters, is the least likely in the top 6 to block a shot or play defense.

To say Nylander is a better player than matthews, even just this season, is crazy.

I know there is a subsection of leaf fans that are irrationally defensive of Nylander, and ready to go to war with ‘boomers’ over how amazing he is, I get it.

But this kind of talk is just jumping the shark. There are literally people talking about not giving matthews a raise on his next contract, and that trading him is going to be better than resigning him in this thread.

Like is said, a lot of crazy posters in this thread.

Matthews might not ever hit 60 goals again. It’s not something any player has been able to do automatically in the modern NHL. But he has been automatic for 40 or more his entire career. It’s a down year for him, and still better than any year Nylander has ever had before this year

scoring doesn’t equal a better player, sure but it is definitely one of the easiest ways to find the difference between players. You don’t win games by not scoring. A forwards job is to score

running away from corners and not blocking shots…..that’s your excuse for nylander being worse. In that case, Matthews is the most likely to make a dumb turnover. Last game against the wild, dude decided to try and go through 2 guys and just had the puck stripped off him. He tried making the same plays he made last year, but they aren’t working.

The people talking about not giving Matthews a contract have two stances from what I’ve seen. The first are the ones who illogically say he shouldn’t be signed no matter what. That’s dumb so I’m not gonna address that point. The other stance is, if he continues to play poorly, including in the playoffs and we lose, then you sit down with him and negotiate. If he asks for 14-15 million no matter what then you explore your options. He can’t ask for 14-15 million after that. His raise should not be substantial as he was overpaid on his first contract too, but anyways it should be something like 12.5-13x8 max.

Matthews probably should be flirting with 60 goals more than just last year. He should be scoring mid to high 50s for the next 5 years or so. Him scoring 40 doesn’t equate to 13 million because his playmaking isn’t good enough to get 60 assists a year.

The last statement makes no sense. You said before even saying nylander is better just this year is crazy, yet you say Matthews has only been better than any year before this one. So you are acknowledging he hasn’t been better.

The point doesn’t even make sense because I wasn’t comparing Matthews this year to nylander any year. I was comparing them both apart of this season. Obviously matthews is a better player than nylander in general, you won’t find anyone doubting that, but his play this year hasn’t been it. Just because it’s a “down” year doesn’t mean he can’t take criticism for it

 

[therealkoho]

The elephant in the room is not whether AM is s great player or not but rather can he be re-signed to a reasonable contract and for 8 years. Is he a flight risk? Will we have enough money to build around him or are we better off with assets we can receive for him and build a possibly great team in doing so.

If you receive 3-4 pieces you can address many facets of the team. 2 pieces alone will get you the 60 goals back and then maybe a clear cut #1 defenseman and 1st round pick.

Another issue is his health, for a big man he is hurt alot. Playing only 65-70 games a year has to taken into consideration on the contract dollars.
If we lost him to a trade or walking away, I'm convinced that McDavid would come the following year anyway.

I think he's a name on the back more than a crest on the front kind of guy. There is only one reason he wanted to be paid more than the captain, and it's the same reason he had his contract structured the way it is structured. It screams "ME"

The assets you'd get back are more valuable to the team then just he himself

 

[baton elevated]

I think he's a name on the back more than a crest on the front kind of guy. There is only one reason he wanted to be paid more than the captain, and it's the same reason he had his contract structured the way it is structured. It screams "ME"

The assets you'd get back are more valuable to the team then just he himself

Agreed

 

[Gabriel426]

I think the elephant in the room is the fact that can our core bring us the Cup? Even if AM, MM and Willie are No.1,2 and 3 in goals and pts in the league if they can’t bring us the Cup, the team needs to retool or make trades for players that can.
Maybe they just can’t win it together as a group.
The question would be who is/are the players the team need to bet on.

Now if they win the Cup this year or the next. I could care less how much AM wants to ask for or even stay with us bc we won a Cup.

 

[kb]

This thread is worse than 'The National Enquirer' for ridiculous conspiracy theories.

 

[ULF_55]

I think he's a name on the back more than a crest on the front kind of guy. There is only one reason he wanted to be paid more than the captain, and it's the same reason he had his contract structured the way it is structured. It screams "ME"

The assets you'd get back are more valuable to the team then just he himself

If he won't sign with the Leafs, then the destinations for him are likely about 3 teams, Rangers, Kings, Golden Knights?

Tkachuk scenario.

Couple nice young players on the Rangers, and Leafs would have to take Kreider or something as well.

 

[Racer88]

If he won't sign with the Leafs, then the destinations for him are likely about 3 teams, Rangers, Kings, Golden Knights?

Tkachuk scenario.

Couple nice young players on the Rangers, and Leafs would have to take Kreider or something as well.

If we even get the chance to trade him. He could just wait one more year and walk for nothing in free agency

 

[57 Years No Cup]

The kid is a monster. While mcd is piling up points Matthews is playing hurt and being the best defence center the universe. Prob multiple universe's. He's going to be a monster in the playoffs and score clutch goals. He's literally the best all round player in the world and he's had a down year from injuries and played through them like the goddamn monster he is. Zero percent worried about him because he will shine in the right moment.

And just yesterday he saved a cat stuck in a tree and walked a little old lady across the street.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Kind of goes back to team construction. You have a superstar franchise player with a big target on his back and guys like Chiarot, Trouba taking healthy runs every year over the past 6 seasons... and we never built up the physical deterrence to protect him.

Matthews being hurt right now has absolutely nothing to do with "team construction". One of the best players in the world is going to have a target on his back, regardless of how our team is constructed. Team construction doesn't prevent or deter people from taking runs, and we don't even know how or where he got hurt.

 

[ULF_55]

If we even get the chance to trade him. He could just wait one more year and walk for nothing in free agency

That's possible, but I think he'd be willing to be traded in the summer if it got him to the place he wants to be a year early.

If he wants out of Toronto I think he agrees.

 

[kb]

Matthews being hurt right now has absolutely nothing to do with "team construction". One of the best players in the world is going to have a target on his back, regardless of how our team is constructed. Team construction doesn't prevent or deter people from taking runs.

Yeah, to say that "if the Leafs only had toughness, Matthews wouldn't get hurt" is obviously someone brand new to the sport of hockey.

Tell that to Marc Savard whose career was ended with Milan Lucic on the ice and Shawn Thornton, Zdeno Chara, and Adam McQuaid on the bench. It's a fallacy that people who love hitting and fighting use to justify adding it at all costs even when it downgrades the team.

I love a big hit or a fight as much as anyone else, but spare me the BS that it somehow prevents teammates from taking abuse, getting hit, or getting hurt.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

One thing you can't criticize Dubas for is sitting on his hands...One of the more active GM's in the league and not scared to make big and unpopular moves.

Except for the move he's needed to make the last three years, which is to trade one of the big 4 and rebalance the salary cap to spend that money on a true #1 D.

 

[Gabriel426]

What I don’t get about this thread is that, most here just want to trade him under the assumption that he will walk. Something that he hasn’t indicated. Or Leafs can’t resign him bc he gets 15mil, which also is something AM has not indicated.

I get the reason that if Leafs can’t move past the 1st round, he would leave bc who wouldn’t. If that’s the logic won’t Willie and MM both want to go too?

Not sure if it is Leafsnation or trolls, but there are just one too many threads worrying about players leaving…..or needs to trade our top guys for literally spare parts….

 

[Confucius]

Why do it like this though? Why compare years 3 and 4 equally to years 15 and 16? That doesn’t make any sense.

Has a player ever scored more goals in this 6,7,8 years than they did in their 1,2,3rd years?

How about years of 2? Has a player ever scored more goals in there 9th and 10th years than their 2nd and 3rd years?

Or even in 4’s?

Are there more goals in years 8-12 than there are in years 12-16? Or in years 1-4?

It’s a stupid thing to compare 35 year old scoring to a 24 year old scoring

I’ll try to explain it more clearly and simplify everything.
In Mathews 1st 8 years, he scores 500 goals, he got paid 10 million a season, fair deal.
Mathews next 8 year contract, he won’t score 500 goals (nobody ever has scored more in their 2nd 8 years than they did iin their 1st 8)
How much per year is he now worth on his next deal?

 

[All Mod Cons]

This thread is worse than 'The National Enquirer' for ridiculous conspiracy theories.

Yeah, I'd stay well clear from these threads if I were you. You're going to hate them.

 

[Antropovsky]

Let's be fair here ... everyone is concerned whether they acknowledge it or not.

He's tied for 25th. in goals scored after winning the Rocket last year.

Now, if the question is are you in a panic, or do you think he's on the downside of his career the answer would likely be no.

He isn't the same player as last year, even if he appears to be more focused on defense, and I question whether there is a dramatic improvement in that regardless of his scoring.

For the playoffs Leafs need Matthews to elevate his game, but this would be a funny way to elevate your post-season by diminishing the regular season, and then claiming improvement in the post season by returning to your normal production.

He's in the pack of a bunch of players, not near the top of those players.

He's compensated to be at the top.

Leafs play a no point shot offense according to all three zonss.com ....Tampa play a point shot type offense, colorado and Boston play a shots from everywhere style.I think Matthews would do better getting rebounds and tipping shots. Same with Tavares. Matthews is actually great at tipping shots... He just doesn't get a chance to do it. Matthews doesn't have the hands (passing or stick handling) for off the rush play. This type of play seems most beneficial to Nylander and Marner.

Rangers and leafs are the only two nhl teams that play a no point shot style dominant style.

Then again he was excellent last season, so maybe he is just injured.

 

[darrylsittler27]

I think Mathews is laying in the weeds. The team is winning and nothing but the playoffs matter. He is likely taking a page from Crosby and just waiting to pounce in the playoffs. No one is watching him and so they wont be ready for him when he explodes out of the gate. I think he will be fine.

 

[Racer88]

That's possible, but I think he'd be willing to be traded in the summer if it got him to the place he wants to be a year early.

If he wants out of Toronto I think he agree.

I sure hope so. I hope he stays but if he did Leave for no return they would bur Dubas in effigy. Lol

 

[WillyC]

It’s not possible to lose Matthews to UFA… if there’s no deal, he will be traded… it’s that simple.

 

[AuraSphere]

He looks so demotivated out there as if he really doesn't care for the outcome of these games. Hope he's saving it for the playoffs otherwise yes I'm concerned that he's playing worse than marner, nylander and tavares this season

 

[Bomber0104]

It’s not possible to lose Matthews to UFA… if there’s no deal, he will be traded… it’s that simple.

If the Leafs lose in the first round, for example, there's going to be an overall tidal wave of pressure from fans, media, ownership to change up the management of the team.

That small window where they can trade him, there may not be the people or the focus in place to execute that extremely franchise-altering decision.