Value of: Andrew Copp UFA contract

[Pavel Buchnevich]

you are responding to "5 years / 3.5 AAV discount because he loves Panarin and Trouba"

He won't go there, b'c term too long.
Howev, if it is no ? clear NY WILL have cap $$$ available after AT MOST 2 yrs, I could see him and Vatrano each being patient and taking around 2.5 or so, ONLY FOR 2 YRS MAX after which they split most of Trouba's 8m per.


All $$ is one thing.
All other than $$ is something else.
The other mathematical possibility is little $$ now for larger $$$ later and other intangibles, ie good compete situation, pleasant work environment, and signif post career options

Rangers can afford to lose Lindgren's 3 per x2 and we get the 1m cap bump.
But we do not have too much else we can move/need to keep.

Trick is to extend youth, add Copp AND Vatrano

No way I’m subtracting Lindgren for Vatrano.

 

[bernmeister]

No way I’m subtracting Lindgren for Vatrano.

it is yr right but you are thinking w/your heart and not yr head.
Whether it is for Vatrano, Copp or anyone else who is in rfa territory Lindgren's 3m cap hit, which can be replaced by an elc, is a luxury not a necessity

 

[TGWL]

it is yr right but you are thinking w/your heart and not yr head.
Whether it is for Vatrano, Copp or anyone else who is in rfa territory Lindgren's 3m cap hit, which can be replaced by an elc, is a luxury not a necessity

3 million isn't a luxury. It's chump change for a guy playing that many minutes. And unless you've got an ELC in mind that can replace his minutes, moving "luxury" Lindgren makes no sense right now. I'm not saying he can't be moved, but you're putting a lot of eggs in the basket of running a combo involving Jones, Robertson, Miller, Lundkvist, Nemeth...

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

I'd love to bring Copp to Detroit, but I expect NYR work out an extension here.

 

[Gurglesons]

I feel like Copp wants to get paid given his contract decisions in Winnipeg. 6 mil seems like the floor especially if he goes on a run in the playoffs.

 

[Gurglesons]

McCann got 5 years. $5M. $25M.

I feel like Copp is much more "complete" player than McCann despite McCann's counting stats being better.

 

[McRanger92]

I think he gets the Danault contract from NYR. They were the runner up to LAK for him last summer, so we know they have the cap space earmarked.

 

[Alluckks]

6 years, 5.25 per year, 15 team NTC for the first 4 years, to the Rangers is my prediction

 

[bernmeister]

3 million isn't a luxury. It's chump change for a guy playing that many minutes. And unless you've got an ELC in mind that can replace his minutes, moving "luxury" Lindgren makes no sense right now. I'm not saying he can't be moved, but you're putting a lot of eggs in the basket of running a combo involving Jones, Robertson, Miller, Lundkvist, Nemeth...

I agree it is good value $$ paid vs what he produces. That is not the issue.

Recognize: Geo, Nemeth, Strome, Hajek are gone. Recover 1.5 Hank buyout.
That =11ish m which = Fox + Zib increases.

We are seeing the value of Chytil, he can't be moved for several reasons.
We don't want to move Goodrow.

Almost anyone we would move has nmc/ntc.
We HAVE TO sell Lindgren for best picks = no cap hit.
His 3 + 1 increase in cap = 4.
Thereafter:
we have to scrape and run w/min number of contracts for a yr or 2. That is the corner we painted ourselves into.
Keep Nils L, trade Jones
lose the drek ie McKegg, and second rate like Hunt
do not re-sign all of current lower depth, only min of the best of them. Chop off 6 or 7 guys like Gettinger.
All of that may get you another 4-5ish m
That is upwards of 8-9 m
covers small 1-2 yrs bridge on Copp and Vatrano, razor thin $ for rfas, who also see Trouba gone sooner than later, and most of his 8m available to them.

THAT ON PAPER IS THE ONLY WAY.
If you want to show an alternative that does not involve trading a Panarin who won't waive, please do, I don't see any other way the #s add up.

 

[TGWL]

I feel like Copp is much more "complete" player than McCann despite McCann's counting stats being better.

They aren't better. He's scored a few more goals though. But Copp has put up a lot of points on NYR to take the lead. Unless you were pointing to McCann's pace production to when he signed.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

I agree it is good value $$ paid vs what he produces. That is not the issue.

Recognize: Geo, Nemeth, Strome, Hajek are gone. Recover 1.5 Hank buyout.
That =11ish m which = Fox + Zib increases.

We are seeing the value of Chytil, he can't be moved for several reasons.
We don't want to move Goodrow.

Almost anyone we would move has nmc/ntc.
We HAVE TO sell Lindgren for best picks = no cap hit.
His 3 + 1 increase in cap = 4.
Thereafter:
we have to scrape and run w/min number of contracts for a yr or 2. That is the corner we painted ourselves into.
Keep Nils L, trade Jones
lose the drek ie McKegg, and second rate like Hunt
do not re-sign all of current lower depth, only min of the best of them. Chop off 6 or 7 guys like Gettinger.
All of that may get you another 4-5ish m
That is upwards of 8-9 m
covers small 1-2 yrs bridge on Copp and Vatrano, razor thin $ for rfas, who also see Trouba gone sooner than later, and most of his 8m available to them.

THAT ON PAPER IS THE ONLY WAY.
If you want to show an alternative that does not involve trading a Panarin who won't waive, please do, I don't see any other way the #s add up.

Explain how we are "seeing the value of Chytil"?

 

[north49er]

Pay him whatever he asks and then take advantage of the LTIR loophole benefit late in the season.....

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I'd love to bring Copp to Detroit, but I expect NYR work out an extension here.

Same. He and Trouba are besties. I think that we see Strome bolt in the offseason for New Jersey or another east coast team, NYR re-signs Copp at 6 to 7 years, 5 mil, and they roll with him and Zibanejad as 1C/2C for a while with the strength of their wingers carrying the team.

 

[Thordic]

Same. He and Trouba are besties. I think that we see Strome bolt in the offseason for New Jersey or another east coast team, NYR re-signs Copp at 6 to 7 years, 5 mil, and they roll with him and Zibanejad as 1C/2C for a while with the strength of their wingers carrying the team.

I can get on board with this. Copp may not be an ideal 2C* but he's a more complete player than Strome.

* - if he keeps playing like he's playing currently through a larger sample size I'll happily eat my crow.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I can get on board with this. Copp may not be an ideal 2C* but he's a more complete player than Strome.

* - if he keeps playing like he's playing currently through a larger sample size I'll happily eat my crow.

I'd argue that Copp is more than ideal. Guys that score 50 to 60 points and play strong 2 way hockey ARE ideal 2Cs. They can matchup against just about anyone and hold their own like Krejci, Kesler, Schenn did/do. And with the firepower that NYR has on the Wing all their centers have to do is keep their heads above water.

It's only the truly lucky teams that end up with Yzerman/Fedorov, Sakic/Forsberg, Malkin/Crosby, Stamkos/Point or even Kuznetsov/Backstrom, Draisaitl/McDavid and Matthews/Tavares as their 1C/2C. They're rare situations.

 

[Kents polished head]

I can see him getting the Danault contract.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

I'd argue that Copp is more than ideal. Guys that score 50 to 60 points and play strong 2 way hockey ARE ideal 2Cs. They can matchup against just about anyone and hold their own like Krejci, Kesler, Schenn did/do. And with the firepower that NYR has on the Wing all their centers have to do is keep their heads above water.

It's only the truly lucky teams that end up with Yzerman/Fedorov, Sakic/Forsberg, Malkin/Crosby, Stamkos/Point or even Kuznetsov/Backstrom, Draisaitl/McDavid and Matthews/Tavares as their 1C/2C. They're rare situations.

Hughes/Hischier

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Hughes/Hischier

I got a better 1-2 punch for you.

 

[Thordic]

I'd argue that Copp is more than ideal. Guys that score 50 to 60 points and play strong 2 way hockey ARE ideal 2Cs. They can matchup against just about anyone and hold their own like Krejci, Kesler, Schenn did/do. And with the firepower that NYR has on the Wing all their centers have to do is keep their heads above water.

It's only the truly lucky teams that end up with Yzerman/Fedorov, Sakic/Forsberg, Malkin/Crosby, Stamkos/Point or even Kuznetsov/Backstrom, Draisaitl/McDavid and Matthews/Tavares as their 1C/2C. They're rare situations.

Except he hasn't been a 50-60 point player in his career, that's my point. He's .42 ppg over his career. Hopefully this season isn't an outlier. If he can maintain anything close to his current level of play, he's clearly an ideal 2c.

 

[MBH]

Wings should be bidding quite high on Copp or Trocheck.

Copp 15 games 8-10-18 +14 129 faceoffs (about 8 a game)
For the season 71 games 21-32-53 +16.

He's gonna get paid.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Except he hasn't been a 50-60 point player in his career, that's my point. He's .42 ppg over his career. Hopefully this season isn't an outlier. If he can maintain anything close to his current level of play, he's clearly an ideal 2c.

To be fair, Copp is a bit of a late bloomer and wasn't really put in a long term 2C slot in Winnipeg. It's only the last 3 seasons he's played above 13:44 ATOI.

Andrew Copp Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

In those 3 seasons he's managed the following:

19-20 - 63 GP, 0.413PPG in 17:42 ATOI (Averages to 34 points in 82 games)
20-21 - 55 GP, 0.709PPG in 18:15 ATOI (58 points in 82 games)
21-22 - 71 GP, 0.746PPG in 19:21 ATOI (61 points in 82 games)

Those are good 2C numbers. The sample size in New York is small but I wouldn't put it past him to get 65 points or better in a full season there.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

To be fair, Copp is a bit of a late bloomer and wasn't really put in a long term 2C slot in Winnipeg. It's only the last 3 seasons he's played above 13:44 ATOI.

Andrew Copp Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

In those 3 seasons he's managed the following:

19-20 - 63 GP, 0.413PPG in 17:42 ATOI (Averages to 34 points in 82 games)
20-21 - 55 GP, 0.709PPG in 18:15 ATOI (58 points in 82 games)
21-22 - 71 GP, 0.746PPG in 19:21 ATOI (61 points in 82 games)

Those are good 2C numbers. The sample size in New York is small but I wouldn't put it past him to get 65 points or better in a full season there.

Definitely think he's a 60 point guy in NY.

 

[bernmeister]

Explain how we are "seeing the value of Chytil"?

When not injured, and provided w/sufficient complementary Ws as I have preached, he demonstrates he is productive.
They looked like a much worse team w/o Chytil, Kakko + Copp. Yeah, I know some of it is the other 2, but don't sell my guy short.
On top of that he is a better physical specimen, bigger, stronger, harder to take off the puck, and cheaper.
This is not a guy you move. And he is at a position of need, pivot.

 

[SKNJD9]

Copp played himself into a pay day and it may be his only opp to cash in. He isn't taking a discount

 

[crowi]

Copp is PIVOTING his way to like $5.5-6.0M long term deal. He'll get it as well. Enticing him with a front office job when I'm sure he is expecting to play around 10 years in the NHL is just Peter Pan type stuff.