Blue Jays Discussion: And the off-season begins (list of FA's in Post #1)

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

He had a 122 wRC+ as a 17 year old. Age matters here lol he was the youngest player in the league. Put him in full season ball next year see how he does and him breaking into the league as a 20 year old really isn't that crazy.

Indeed, age matters. -4.1 years younger than the average league age does provide for some upticking in the numbers (122 wRC+, .366 wOBA). However, I submit to you, oh whimsical stranger...

Rafael Devers, whom has been used as a proxy for Guerrero by several (better hit, lower power tool grades) was 17 (-3.9) in GCL and had a wRC+ of 146 (wOBA of .405). He then skipped A- the next year and did his full season of A-ball at 18. Then he did his A+ this year at 19. He will not be in the majors at 20 barring something ridiculous occurring, and that's with things going quite well for him.

It is quite crazy to see him "breaking into the league" at 20 because it would require him to skip at least two full season levels. Unless you believe he is Miguel Cabrera level good...which judging from the last couple pages, some people do.

But yes, "lol".

 

[deletethis]

Was Barney designated for assignment and that's how he could elect for free agency? The Blue Jays DFA'd Barney last October.

 

[hockeywiz542]

toronto – the toronto blue jays entered into an exclusive five-day negotiating window with their nine impending free agents thursday, a list headlined by franchise icons edwin encarnacion and jose bautista.

Neither slugger is expected to sign before free agents become eligible to sign with any team at 12:01 a.m. Tuesday, when the annual general managers’ meetings get started in scottsdale, ariz.

Still, the five days give the blue jays an opportunity to set the bar in talks with encarnacion and bautista, two of the top offensive players available in free agency, or at minimum gauge what type of contract each is seeking.

That in turn will allow president and ceo mark shapiro and gm ross atkins to assess how the two players might fit into their 2017 payroll. The blue jays are believed to at minimum have received enough guidance on a payroll figure to begin their off-season, if not a final number to work off.

already the blue jays have $103.3 million guaranteed to eight players, not including a $3 million option on reliever jason grilli that must be exercised by 5 p.m. Et monday and will be. Marcus stroman, projected by mlb trade rumors to earn $3.5 million next year, will be the only player to earn a substantial raise through arbitration, but there are many holes to fill.

Aside from bautista and encarnacion, outfielder michael saunders, lefty reliever brett cecil, starter r.a. Dickey, set-up man joaquin benoit, catcher dioner navarro, reliever gavin floyd and swingman scott feldman also became free agents.

Bringing back the two sluggers while filling in the supporting cast around them will be difficult without an increase from the roughly $150 million spent in 2016. The blue jays are expected to get some type of bump in payroll but how much is unknown.

qualifying offers of $17.2 million must be extended to free agents by 5 p.m. Et monday in order to ensure draft compensation should players sign elsewhere. Bautista and encarnacion will get qualified by the blue jays.

Players have until 5 p.m. Et nov. 14 to make a decision on their qualifying offer.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Would you bring back Floyd for cheap?

 

[schenneuf]

Benoit is a huge priority, no? Why isn't anyone talking about him?

 

[BlueForever]

I think bringing back Benoit, and Grilli based on how they did with us should be a priority. I would only give Cecil a certain number and if he balks at it let him walk.

But I would be ok with going with a bullpen of Tepera, Schultz, Brigiani, Cecil, Benoit, Grilli and Osuna

 

[FearTheBeard]

Benoit is a huge priority, no? Why isn't anyone talking about him?

I wouldn't call it a huge priority. Ideally, yes they bring him back as he pitched very well in a SSS for the Jays. But as seen with Storen (and Benoit's first half) relievers are very random and unpredictable, so it'll all depend on the $ value

 

[Petes]

I think bringing back Benoit, and Grilli based on how they did with us should be a priority. I would only give Cecil a certain number and if he balks at it let him walk.

But I would be ok with going with a bullpen of Tepera, Schultz, Brigiani, Cecil, Benoit, Grilli and Osuna

That's not terrible but you likely need another lefty instead of Tepera.

Also Barnes > Schultz.

 

[Puckstuff]

Need:

A closer - Osuna becomes elite set up man
LF - Reddick?
RF - Fowler?
1B - Moss?


RF - Fowler
2B - Travis
3B - Donaldson
DH - Encarnacion
RF - Reddick
C - Martin
SS - Tulowitzki
1B - Moss
CF - Pillar

Sanchez
Estrada
Happ
Stroman
Liriano

CL
Osuna
Cecil
etc

 

[FearTheBeard]

Not even A-... rookie ball.

Still though, a 17-year-old with a 122 wRC+ in the Appalachian league is outstanding, and that, plus the way he did it (lots of power, lots of walks, few strikeouts) suggests he's going to be a very good major league hitter in the future. Unfortunately, it also suggests he would be absolutely awful in the majors right now.

Indeed, age matters. -4.1 years younger than the average league age does provide for some upticking in the numbers (122 wRC+, .366 wOBA). However, I submit to you, oh whimsical stranger...

Rafael Devers, whom has been used as a proxy for Guerrero by several (better hit, lower power tool grades) was 17 (-3.9) in GCL and had a wRC+ of 146 (wOBA of .405). He then skipped A- the next year and did his full season of A-ball at 18. Then he did his A+ this year at 19. He will not be in the majors at 20 barring something ridiculous occurring, and that's with things going quite well for him.

It is quite crazy to see him "breaking into the league" at 20 because it would require him to skip at least two full season levels. Unless you believe he is Miguel Cabrera level good...which judging from the last couple pages, some people do.

But yes, "lol".

Never thought I'd see meaningful advanced stats discussed on a hockey message board site. Do you guys post on Bluejaysmessageboard ? It's a very knowledgeable board with very good Jays and baseball discussion.

 

[FearTheBeard]

Need:

A closer - Osuna becomes elite set up man
LF - Reddick?
RF - Fowler?
1B - Moss?


RF - Fowler
2B - Travis
3B - Donaldson
DH - Encarnacion
RF - Reddick
C - Martin
SS - Tulowitzki
1B - Moss
CF - Pillar

Sanchez
Estrada
Happ
Stroman
Liriano

CL
Osuna
Cecil
etc

You're not gonna have Encarnacion, Moss and Smoak all on the same roster as first basemen. You're one of those "Fire Shapiro" types huh? Yawn

 

[Discoverer]

Benoit is a huge priority, no? Why isn't anyone talking about him?

Benoit would be nice to have on a cheap contract, but there are plenty of better options available in free agency. Signing another reliever should be a priority. Signing Benoit specifically should not.

 

[Discoverer]

You're not gonna have Encarnacion, Moss and Smoak all on the same roster as first basemen. You're one of those "Fire Shapiro" types huh? Yawn

Moss can still play a reasonably competent RF/LF, too, so it's not that ridiculous.

Asking for all those things (re-signing Edwin and signing Fowler, Moss, and Reddick) is a bit much, but having Smoak and Encarnacion shouldn't prevent them from looking at Moss. If anything, he gives them a bit of flexibility to shuffle guys around more.

 

[tokyoite]

I like Bruce Bochy. Imagine if he was our manager right now.

 

[Kurtz]

But as seen with Storen (and Benoit's first half) relievers are very random and unpredictable

As seen with JA Happ, Francisco Liriano, Marco Estrada and Aaron Sanchez, starters are very random and unpredictable.

To some extent, all pitchers are random and unpredictable. You still need to sign some.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Never thought I'd see meaningful advanced stats discussed on a hockey message board site. Do you guys post on Bluejaysmessageboard ? It's a very knowledgeable board with very good Jays and baseball discussion.

About 10% of that board is knowledgeable discussion. Many of which was prospects discussion(the rest is mostly based on advanced stats) until "todd" came around. The other 90% is useless babble from people who think they know what they're talking about and off topic gargle.

That entire board basically wanted Sanchez gone last offseason, that was fun

This thread might be worse at times, which is sad, but I'm not seeing maybe half the posts in this thread, so that's helpful when you only see the useful stuff.

You're not gonna have Encarnacion, Moss and Smoak all on the same roster as first basemen. You're one of those "Fire Shapiro" types huh? Yawn

Smoak isn't starting so you need a starting 1B, and a DH. That DH could just as easily come from an outfielder who's not as good at being an outfielder, or just a rotating DH spot, but assuming Smoak is on the roster as bench player(I would prefer he just not be on the roster at all), then yeah you're gonna have 3 1B/DH guys there.

As far the Benoit discussion, no he's not a priority. The pen absolutely needs to be given we only really have Osuna, Grilli, Biagini and maybe Barnes. But he's not someone you absolutely must retain. Especially coming off an injury.

I'm not sure how much of Cecil's early season struggles this year was a result of him coming off that calf injury he suffered in the post season, if any at all, but Benoit had the same injury. You re-sign him and he starts next year like that, he likely goes the Storen, Chavez route

 

[Shimso]

You're not gonna have Encarnacion, Moss and Smoak all on the same roster as first basemen. You're one of those "Fire Shapiro" types huh? Yawn

One can hope.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Never thought I'd see meaningful advanced stats discussed on a hockey message board site. Do you guys post on Bluejaysmessageboard ? It's a very knowledgeable board with very good Jays and baseball discussion.

The most knowledgeable Blue Jays posters on the internet reside here...

We liked the Blue Jays before it was cool.

 

[FearTheBeard]

Moss can still play a reasonably competent RF/LF, too, so it's not that ridiculous.

Asking for all those things (re-signing Edwin and signing Fowler, Moss, and Reddick) is a bit much, but having Smoak and Encarnacion shouldn't prevent them from looking at Moss. If anything, he gives them a bit of flexibility to shuffle guys around more.

Moss put up average defensive numbers last year in the OF (likely due to consistency), but when he's not out there frequently, he's pretty awful. His metrics before last year we're bad. He's more of a platoon option at this point, but I doubt the money he'll receive will reflect that

 

[FearTheBeard]

One can hope.

Still shaking my head on that signing. One of the few bad moves (Hendricks trade the other) that the new regime has made

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

About 10% of that board is knowledgeable discussion. Many of which was prospects discussion(the rest is mostly based on advanced stats) until "todd" came around. The other 90% is useless babble from people who think they know what they're talking about and off topic gargle.

That entire board basically wanted Sanchez gone last offseason, that was fun

This thread might be worse at times, which is sad, but I'm not seeing maybe half the posts in this thread, so that's helpful when you only see the useful stuff.

And kitten pictures...don't forget the kitten pictures.

I remember the happy C4G...like a young Alicia Silverstone...you've become so jaded...like actual Alicia Silverstone. There's some legends on this board, man. You, TF7's, Nemesissssss, Everlong, Eyedea, theAub, Discoverer, Woodrow, Weems Topchedda and NN when they drag their ***** around every once in a while. I'm sure I'm forgetting some people..

 

[Eyedea]

I try man, I try.

Also Cecil is more of a priority than Benoit. Actually Cecil is a pretty big priority IMO.

 

[Canada4Gold]

And kitten pictures...don't forget the kitten pictures.

I remember the happy C4G...like a young Alicia Silverstone...you've become so jaded...like actual Alicia Silverstone. There's some legends on this board, man. You, TF7's, Nemesissssss, Everlong, Eyedea, theAub, Discoverer, Woodrow, Weems Topchedda and NN when they drag their ***** around every once in a while. I'm sure I'm forgetting some people..

I wasn't refering to this board. I said "that board" referring to Bluejaysmessageboard which he referenced in his post

 

[Discoverer]

Moss put up average defensive numbers last year in the OF (likely due to consistency), but when he's not out there frequently, he's pretty awful. His metrics before last year we're bad. He's more of a platoon option at this point, but I doubt the money he'll receive will reflect that

His defensive metrics are just fine. Over the last five years, he's been even by DRS and +2 by UZR in over 2000 innings.

He would be fine in the OF, and he would be a huge improvement over Bautista and Saunders. If someone wants to pay him to be a full-time starter, they can have him. But the platoon part makes him an even better fit, since the Jays could use someone to play the left-handed side of a platoon with Upton.

 

[Discoverer]

I try man, I try.

Also Cecil is more of a priority than Benoit. Actually Cecil is a pretty big priority IMO.

Yeah, there are a lot of alternatives to Benoit, but not so much for Cecil. I still like him at three years for $6-7 million per.