Post-Game Talk: And that should be the end of the Leafs core

[613Leafer]

I miss the Jays. At least they played with heart and showed they cared. They were saddled with a poor manager, bad injuries, and bad early bullpen. The Leafs are saddled with a bad coach, bad GM, bad heartless players, bad defence, bad offence, bad fashion sense, bad moustache, and probably bad breath. I loathe this team right now.

Raptors are one of the hardest working most "team" concept committed teams in the NBA. They're a good replacement for your sports entertainment.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Mitch may be right that they know what they did wrong, but it's the same thing they've been doing wrong for years, and neither the players and the coach seem to think it needs fixing.

What is wrong? Let me give it a shot.

Down 7-1 and Liljegen carries the puck through the neutral zone, last man back. Knowing that both Toronto goalies have had a rough night and the game is lost the easy, smart thing to do is just dump it in. No need to be Superman, just keep it simple and avoid any more turnovers that'll make the night even worse for poor Hutch.

But no, he decides to try and deke out two Pens forwards, loses the puck and it's a 2-on-1 against almost making it 8-1.

Less than 2 minutes later Engvall does the same thing in the Leafs zone.

And the response is ... nothing. Unless I'm mistaken, Keefe doesn't bench either player for the rest of the game just to send a message, it's just "oh well." And to me is symptomatic of how broken this team is. They continually make selfish, completely idiotic plays with no accountability. So the bad habits more than just accepted, they are now ingrained in this team.

I'm convinced that Liljegren (or any other Leaf, besides perhaps Spezza and one or two others), would do the exact same thing if they were up 7-1, tied 2-2 or in overtime in a playoff game.

My answer to the problem is simple: Any time, any player makes such a brutal, bonehead play, he's stapled to the bench for at least the rest of the period if not the game. Force the bad habits out until they learn.

If Sheldon has lost the room, it's more than just because of all the f-bombs, it's likely because the players see a total lack of accountability. It's probably too late for Keefe to change that, but when he's fired Dubas needs to find a coach willing to give some tough love or he's gone too.

Dubas will certainly be fired together with Keefe.

 

[Mickey Marner]

I gotta give a buddy of mine alot of credit. I was at his place watching the infamous JT's first game back in Long Island game and I remember him saying to me immediately after that game was over that the Leafs weren't going to win anything with this current core. And I ripped on him, not just that night but for months after. I told him "How can you make this claim just off one bad game"? and he said I saw enough out of this team in this one game where their give a shit meter in big moments and special games is completely off the radar, they have no heart whatsoever and no compete and no will to win when the going gets tough.

And Low and behold, fast forward almost two years and he's being vindicated more and more with each passing game. Like I said, I got to give him credit.

Yep, that was a bellweather game. So was the Zamboni driver game, the collapse against Ottawa last year, tonight, as well as several playoff games. At least show a pulse and goon it up if you're getting blown out. These guys have no dignity or self-respect, they just bend over and take it.

 

[Stephen]

Leafs are kings of talking bullshit.

Honest, John. Pick your spots. Stop talking.

 

[ITM]

Dean Lombardi and John Tortorella are both available. A proven architect and coach and an instant culture shift upon arrival.

 

[Aashir]

Well that was even worse then last night.
Where do we go from here? How do we fix this mess or does it keep sinking

We get shut out by Freddie Andersen on Monday in a 8-0 loss. That’s how it gets worse.
Hfboards crashes from the trolling

 

[notDatsyuk]

dreadful to watch but I'm waiting until at least a dozen games are played before I think any major changes should happen. After that, a serious look at the coach should be the first order of business.

Lots of time then - I think they've played about 2½ games so far.

 

[Aashir]

I took the entire season off last year as I'm just convinced until Dubas is gone we can't move forward. When I do watch games I find myself cheering against the Leafs because that's how we get to Dubas gone. But it feels wrong. Too much negativity. I just bitch.

For some reason, I decided to watch the whole game tonight. I was like....Pitts AHL squad. They'll have fun and score some goals.

LOL. Guess I got what I wanted but man.......FIRE THIS MANAGEMENT TEAM. What is it gonna take MLSE?

Originally I was pretty opposed to you and your outlook on the team. I thought “man this guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about, we have a good solid team from the net up”. Then the Habs happened, then this season. And now, I’m tending to agree with much of your views. Dubas bet, nothing wrong with that, but he’s lost the bet, it’s probably best we part ways sooner rather than later, who knows maybe we pull a St. Louis and dominate, or maybe we retool for a year or two and come back stronger. But all I know is, Matthews Marner Tavares and nylander are overrated and overpaid. Campbell makes me miss 2017-2019 Andersen. And our defence may be a bit more overrated the the core 4.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Good effort lads . We'll get em next year!

 

[brandonlowi]

I have been a leafs fans for over 25 years. I’ve come to expect the worse. But there is no hope left if management can’t see how poorly structured this team is.

Everyone knows the solution….but that means admitting defeat. And they’ll never do that.

It’s going to be a long ride to the bottom my fellow leaf fans.

 

[Stephen]

We get shut out by Freddie Andersen on Monday in a 8-0 loss. That’s how it gets worse.
Hfboards crashes from the trolling

I see Andersen and the Canes laying waste to the Maple Leafs as well. But I find there's something cosmically unfair that ex-Leafs get their revenge and haunt the Leafs when a lot of the times those players were brutal here and actively caused misery for Leafs Nation - like Andersen.

Sometimes you kind of wish they'd just fold the franchise, build a condo on top of Scotiabank and then give us an expansion team in 2025 in a new rink on a piece of reclaimed land over Lake Ontario. Just want a team that's just a hockey team. Not some institution everyone grew up wanting to play for, with championships no one remembers, no claim to greatness from decades ago. Just start it up fresh with no ghosts.

 

[JSn0w93]

Dean Lombardi and John Tortorella are both available. A proven architect and coach and an instant culture shift upon arrival.

Yeah those aren't the people to hitch this wagon to. More (better) options will be available in the off-season.

 

[Aashir]

I see Andersen and the Canes laying waste to the Maple Leafs as well. But I find there's something cosmically unfair that ex-Leafs get their revenge and haunt the Leafs when a lot of the times those players were brutal here and actively caused misery for Leafs Nation - like Andersen.

Sometimes you kind of wish they'd just fold the franchise, build a condo on top of Scotiabank and then give us an expansion team in 2025. Just want a team that's just a hockey team. Not some institution everyone grew up wanting to play for, with championships no one remembers, no claim to greatness from decades. Just start it up fresh with no ghosts.

Tell me about it. All those game 7s??? Funny thing is, I’d bet a large sum of money that he’s posting a game 7 shutout this year because that’s how things work

back to tmrws game, a 28 save shutout performance sounds about right

 

[6ix]

Ahem.

I repeat.

Losers lose.

 

[colchar]

It's time to face facts. This is not a well constructed team.

We put far too much money into far too few players. When they don't show up, which happens far too often, the rest of our roster just isn't good enough to compensate. This is not how you build a good NHL team.

It's funny that our management was talking playoffs before the season even started. Getting ahead of themselves as we look like a bubble team at best.

It isn't that too much money is tied up in too few players. Chicago did the same thing when they were winning Cups and they had to jettison salary every year. But they won.

The problem isn't that the Leafs have too much money tied up in four players, it is the four players in whom they have that money tied up.

 

[Polaris1010]

Dubas will certainly be fired together with Keefe.

I got my doubts about that.

Shanahan was the guy in charge with the Horachek-Give-A-Crap-Meter debacle.

Shanahan was the guy in charge when the organization was in chaos.

That changed when Babcock, Hunter, Lamereillo were brought into the organization.

Since then, those experienced hockey people gone, the organization is sliding again into embarrassment.

Shanahan is still the guy in charge, who handed the job to Dubas.

Shanahan cannot fire Dubas, because if he fires Dubas, he should hand in his resignation at the same time.

This seems like a complete mess, that only a complete housing cleaning can be an adequate starting point from which to address the shortcomings of the team.

As fans, we have seen enough to know we cannot trust Shanahan to do anything right. But the level of management above him, may not feel the same way.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

Andersen is gonna wall us.

Its another huge sign of the core is the problem and not Babcock, Hyman, Defence, playing time, Goalies.

 

[Stephen]

Tell me about it. All those game 7s??? Funny thing is, I’d bet a large sum of money that he’s posting a game 7 shutout this year because that’s how things work

back to tmrws game, a 28 save shutout performance sounds about right

Well, it's Connor Brown superstar in Ottawa. Was it Leafs Nation's fault he lost his job to Hyman and got buried on a lower line and did nothing? Then he goes to Ottawa, finds his groove and beats up on the Leafs like he's on a revenge tour. Before him, Alex Steen.

 

[JSn0w93]

I got my doubts about that.

Shanahan was the guy in charge with the Horachek-Give-A-Crap-Meter debacle.

Shanahan was the guy in charge when the organization was in chaos.

That changed when Babcock, Hunter, Lamereillo were brought into the organization.

Since then, those experienced hockey people gone, the organization is sliding again into embarrassment.

Shanahan is still the guy in charge, who handed the job to Dubas.

Shanahan cannot fire Dubas, because if he fires Dubas, he should hand in his resignation at the same time.

This seems like a complete mess, that only a complete housing cleaning can be an adequate starting point from which to address the shortcomings of the team.

As fans, we have seen enough to know we cannot trust Shanahan to do anything right. But the level of management above him, may not feel the same way.

Agreed the moment Dubas is fired Shanahan has to be as well. What is MLSE going to do let him pick ANOTHER GM and ANOTHER coach? Enough is enough.

 

[Torontonian]

Just another ugly performance, 2nd one in a row. Team looked uninspired to play. Starts with your top guys, not nearly good enough.

Leafs kryptonite will always being play against hard working teams.

 

[Gabriel426]

Well, it's Connor Brown superstar in Ottawa. Was it Leafs Nation's fault he lost his job to Hyman and got buried on a lower line and did nothing? Then he goes to Ottawa, finds his groove and beats up on the Leafs like he's on a revenge tour. Before him, Alex Steen.

Well for every Connor Brown, there is a Zaitslev, lol

 

[Gabriel426]

The more I see about Andersen going to shut the Leafs out. I have a feeling the boys will chase Andersen by mid first period.

 

[Havoc]

A positive look before hitting bed. Maybe 20% odds of being true but hopefully 100%: Maybe this is the adversity needed to finally push them over the edge. They've always snoozed through the regular season then ousted in the first round. Boston losses they slept their way to 3rd in division. Jackets were looked down upon. Don't even get me started on the North division. Perhaps adversity now, overcoming it and proving everyone wrong by making the playoffs and earning back contender status is what will build the killer instinct we have been missing.

Most people are too mad right now to take this serious, but at the end of the day we're all still Leafs fans so a part of you, even if small hope it's true.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Good thing I decided to go out tonight instead. Looks like they really addressed that killer instinct this off-season.

Nuke it.

 

[ECYCLE]

Originally I was pretty opposed to you and your outlook on the team. I thought “man this guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about, we have a good solid team from the net up”. Then the Habs happened, then this season. And now, I’m tending to agree with much of your views. Dubas bet, nothing wrong with that, but he’s lost the bet, it’s probably best we part ways sooner rather than later, who knows maybe we pull a St. Louis and dominate, or maybe we retool for a year or two and come back stronger. But all I know is, Matthews Marner Tavares and nylander are overrated and overpaid. Campbell makes me miss 2017-2019 Andersen. And our defence may be a bit more overrated the the core 4.

Firing Shanahan/Dubas/Keefe immediately isn't going to help; it will likely just make Toronto an even worse place to play for considering it's only game 6 of the regular season. The best thing will be to replace management in the off season. As you say, Dubas bet poorly and while it looks bad now, I still think you have to let the season play out fully and then make the right moves properly... however hard that may be for many of the fans.