Analyzing Management and Development

[LAKings88]

If we upgraded two spots, I'd expect to upgrade in the standings.

Instead we're flatlined year over year for 3 years while getting older. That's impressive.

26.33 average age this year, 26.06 last year. And our top six's average age is 30.

That's not getting younger and better. Literally getting older and worse.

Yeah there are components to this thing but this is definitely not the 2010 Kings after all.

My two biggest issues are a shit power play and a regressive CP. At least Quick seems to be dialed in.

I also think they miss Walker a lot. Durzi I think is better offensely than Clague. He is a bit more dynamic. Edler was brought in to mentor and do what Maatta couldn’t.

The first line is still Kopi dragging Brown’s carcass and a revolving door on lw.

 

[Schmooley]

What is your definition of rebuild? They upgraded two spots. The team is still in rebuild are they not? Even if they make the playoffs.

Unless you think Lizotte, Andersson, Moore, AA, and Grundstrom are staples moving forward.

Bringing in these two guys to play in the top six when you already have veterans and guys like AA Iafallo and Kempe while keeping the handful of first rounders in bottom six grinder roles is the opposite of rebuild.
I hope you are getting paid to be on here spinning and deflecting. Telling us dont believe youre eyes with what you see on the ice or when you look at the standings or statistics and dont believe your ears when they say they want playoffs they dont mean it.
Seriously its some Fox CNN shit good work

 

[Schmooley]

I also think they miss Walker a lot.

Yea if only they had Sean Walker things would be different.

 

[funky]

So who would score more on the PP

current vets Kopi, Arty, Doughty, Kempe, and Brown with our coaches assistance

or

Turcotte - Byfield - Kaliyev
Durzi and pick your prospect without any of LA’s coaches telling them what to do.

being serious

 

[LAKings88]

Bringing in these two guys to play in the top six when you already have veterans and guys like AA Iafallo and Kempe while keeping the handful of first rounders in bottom six grinder roles is the opposite of rebuild.
I hope you are getting paid to be on here spinning and deflecting. Telling us dont believe youre eyes with what you see on the ice or when you look at the standings or statistics and dont believe your ears when they say they want playoffs they dont mean it.
Seriously its some Fox CNN shit good work

Honestly tired of the can’t develop good ol boys spin many have been peddling without any real evidence. I counter with logic and you double down with the same shit.

 

[ru4reals]

Well I guess we can look at the bright side to all this suckage, the more we suck the sooner ownership will get rid of Bluc, Todd and company.

 

[apocalypse]

You give all ourrookies top 6 minutes, watch this team crash and burn.

 

[Schmooley]

Honestly tired of the can’t develop good ol boys spin many have been peddling without any real evidence. I counter with logic and you double down with the same shit.

I dont know what you mean cant develop good ol boy spin?
Do you get paid to be on here and say stuff like this? Honest question

 

[apocalypse]

If you can't develop talent, the answer is simple: you better be good at making strategic trades.

 

[Schmooley]

You give all ourrookies top 6 minutes, watch this team crash and burn.

As opposed to not crashing and burning?
I dont see anyone saying put every rookie in the top six.

 

[LAKings88]

I dont know what you mean cant develop good ol boy spin?
Do you get paid to be on here and say stuff like this? Honest question

Been consistent with exactly what I said in the first post.

Tired of things like:

Buck BLuc, dumbass surfers don’t know shit.

Ur my gawd, our last three first overall picks aren’t on the first line. Why? How? Fire everyone.

 

[apocalypse]

As opposed to not crashing and burning?
I dont see anyone saying put every rookie in the top six.

A lineup like this which some feel should happen:
Arvy Kopitar kaliyev
Iafallo danault kupari
Aa kempe vilardi
Brown lizzotte grundstrom

This lineup would crash and burn. Change my mind.

 

[Schmooley]

A lineup like this which some feel should happen:
Arvy Kopitar kaliyev
Iafallo danault kupari
Aa kempe vilardi
Brown lizzotte grundstrom

This lineup would crash and burn. Change my mind.

Yea I agree right that lineup would crash and burn. Much like the one now. This one is similar to now except you just rearranged it in a nonsensical way

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

My two biggest issues are a shit power play and a regressive CP. At least Quick seems to be dialed in.

I also think they miss Walker a lot. Durzi I think is better offensely than Clague. He is a bit more dynamic. Edler was brought in to mentor and do what Maatta couldn’t.

The first line is still Kopi dragging Brown’s carcass and a revolving door on lw.

And the shit power play is going on basically a decade.

I agree Walker is missed but ultimately he's a seatwarmer, he's a good player and the trevor lewis of the defense in that he can play any role or side but unfortunately just like the rest of the dcore he can only do each thing at a 'good' level and specializes in nothing. He's a different flavor because he's RHD, but man, the redundancy. You have Drew Doughty and then five flavors of Sean Walker on defense. Mission accomplished everyone, we have a dcore who literally cannot score a goal and can defend at an above average level. Success.


I agree, Kopitar could use an energetic, mobile scorer. Unfortunately, the age minimum for regular top six duty appears to be set at Adrian Kempe and older only, despite the stellar possible insulation of multiple Selke winners and nominees. Development! Have to make sure they can play bubble hockey first.

 

[King'sPawn]

Well I guess we can look at the bright side to all this suckage, the more we suck the sooner ownership will get rid of Bluc, Todd and company.

Apparently not. People will keep rolling out excuses for mismanagement. Here's their analysis:

The only things wrong with the organization are just stupid, impatient fans on social media and HF. Their plan is foolproof. They have gathered the best looking prospect pool, so no actual results will be expected. The rebuild will last until the Kings suddenly win the cup, and if they don't, then it's the prospects' fault and the Kings just have to rebuild indefinitely. As long as Blake doesn't trade any shiny futures, they're happy with him.

 

[apocalypse]

Yea I agree right that lineup would crash and burn. Much like the one now. This one is similar to now except you just rearranged it in a nonsensical way

Kaliyev and kupari are utilized in the bottom 6. Not top 6.

 

[Eagle Fang]

A lineup like this which some feel should happen:
Arvy Kopitar kaliyev
Iafallo danault kupari
Aa kempe vilardi
Brown lizzotte grundstrom

This lineup would crash and burn. Change my mind.

Not necessarily those line combos specifically, but of course it would crash and burn. The idea though is that you need to put rookies, who will hopefully be the future core of the team, in positions that they are meant to develop into.

If Kaliyev or Vilardi for example are projected as future top six players, what purpose does it serve to play them in grinding and checking roles? How does it help them to grow into what they were drafted for?

By integrating them with vets, it helps to insulate their play.

 

[apocalypse]

Not necessarily those line combos specifically, but of course it would crash and burn. The idea though is that you need to put rookies, who will hopefully be the future core of the team, in positions that they are meant to develop into.

If Kaliyev or Vilardi for example are projected as future top six players, what purpose does it serve to play them in grinding and checking roles? How does it help them to grow into what they were drafted for?

By integrating them with vets, it helps to insulate their play.

If we don't do it this way, we wouldn't be 9-9. There's pressure to win now.

 

[johnjm22]

Kopi is on pace for 80-90 with his annual slump.
Danault is 28 and a Selke caliber center.
Byfield is a monster with huge potential. Would have made the team if not for the injury.

Kopitar: Points don't tell the story. He's not that good anymore. This goes back to last season. He's ineffective in most areas of the game nowadays. This isn't going to change. It's not going to get better.

Danault is 29 this season. He will never be a Selke finalist from here on out. He's a very good 3rd line center.

Byfield is a rookie. If he's ever a great player it probably won't be for years. Look how the other players drafted just ahead of him and just behind him are fairing.

 

[bland]

Been consistent with exactly what I said in the first post.

Tired of things like:

Buck BLuc, dumbass surfers don’t know shit.

Ur my gawd, our last three first overall picks aren’t on the first line. Why? How? Fire everyone.

Perhaps if you tried to understand them instead of mischaracterizing them you wouldn't be so exhausted.

Btw, the first title was a much better representation of this thread.

 

[apocalypse]

Perhaps if you tried to understand them instead of mischaracterizing them you wouldn't be so exhausted.

Btw, the first title was a much better representation of this thread.

I think he's got a point. The system hasn't proven to be a failure yet... people are impatient and the average hockey fan doesn't know shit about the front office or what goes on behind the scenes. They just see a .500 team and refuse to buy tickets. I used to be impatient but I see what Blake is doing and I have hope for our prospects. But insofar as how they're being used is a moot point. Everyone has a learning curve and that's expected. Now if Blake was panicking and trading key prospects away, then I'd think differently. So far he receives a C+ from me and that could go up. It's called a rebuild for a reason and it will take time but we're starting to see the fruits of it. We're beating or OTL the teams that were supposed to beat. My only problem is that Blake doesn't ice an enforcer or even a middle 6 heavyweight. Lenieux is progress but we need more. Jury's still out...

 

[LAKings88]

Kempe is on the top line, but he's in the streaky Toffoli caliber.

Kupari and Kaliyev are in the bottom 6.

JAD when brought up will be a bottom 6.

The TOP 6 this year is:
Kopitar - played in Sweden then was NHL ready. Never came through the system
Iafallo - NHL ready out of college. Didn't go through the system
Danault - UFA signing
Athanasiou - UFA signing
Kempe - middle-six player. Not dependable on the top line
Arvidsson - trade

The best forwards in the organization have spent virtually zero time developing.

Look at the defense:
Anderson - time in the AHL
Bjornfot - seemed NHL ready but still played a bit in the AHL
Roy - time in the AHL
Walker (injured) - played in the AHL.
Clague - time in the AHL

Then you can look at Muzzin, Martinez, etc who all spent time in the AHL, and showing they are capable to get key minutes in some capacity (top-4, PK, PP, etc).

And we need to stop blaming DL. They focused on character. But they didn't ignore skill. They drafted Schenn and Simmonds, who again, thrived offensively outside of the organization.

They may have here but we won’t know because they were traded.

The next crop has not had a chance to develop but you keep insisting they aren’t going to be developed right. Nice to have a crystal ball.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

What I thought I'd be seeing this year to some degree:

Kempe - Kopitar - Vilardi
Iafallo - Danault - Kaliyev
Grundstrom - Byfield - Arvidsson
Lemieux - JAD - Brown

Lizotte, Andersson, AA, Tkachev can easily rotate through

Easy--every line has at least one veteran and defensive presence, a skater that can lug the puck through the neutral zone, and a scoring threat from both distance and right in front banging away. You can easily give a cup of coffee to guys like Turcotte, Fagemo, Thomas as players get injured, and should be able to rotate lines to get about 12-18 minutes apiece.


Anderson - Doughty
Clague - Roy
Edler - Walker

Mostly veteran/youth, rotate Bjornfot through, use Strand or Maatta as needed, can call up Durzi, Spence, Moverare for cups of coffee.

PK1 Iafallo Danault Doughty Anderson, PK 2 Kempe Arvidsson/JAD/Brown Roy Edler -- MUST KILL PK Kopitar Danault Doughty Edler (save Kopitar's defensive minutes for when most needed, that was Danault's big perk)

PP1 Kopitar Kempe Iafallo/Grundstrom Doughty Kaliyev PP2 Byfield Danault Lemieux/Brown Vilardi Clague Both units feature a forward at the point/high slot, a carry in threat, a net front presence, and a good bumper.


The idea was integration of vets with youth, so guys could sit and chat on bench for feedback/growth rather than quarantining youth together on bottom lines and overplaying vets. Doughty coming back and playing 28 minutes is noble, but futile. So is playing Kopitar 25 and Kupari 8.

hopefully that illustrates the disparity between actual happenings and my thoughts as i interpreted the offseason comments to mean. My issues are 1. disparate playing time; 2. disparate accountability; 3. terrible integration and utilization of youth, ie Kaliyev constantly on 4th line instead of regularly in top six (ok to rotate!); 4. youth being penalized for mistakes especially being creative with the puck; 5. myopic focus on small picture 2021 results rather than long-term positioning and growth--ie trying to make the playoffs NOW by over-relying on the vets rather than trying youth in key positions.

And it's extra frustrating because aside from 'too many bodies' I thought Blake did a great job this year putting together a roster that could do GREAT things for the growth of the youth and included a good spread of responsible two way veterans and youth. On paper, it's a near-ideal setup to have Doughty, Kopitar, Danault, Iafallo running around; in practice, they're just giving those guys playing time from the fire hose and blaming results on the kids getting buried. Went from a positive looking development to nearly the worst possible utilization of that personnel and results to match.

 

[King'sPawn]

They may have here but we won’t know because they were traded.

The next crop has not had a chance to develop but you keep insisting they aren’t going to be developed right. Nice to have a crystal ball.

Yes, it's just a coincidence the best player developed in the last two decades is Tyler Toffoli and Dustin Brown, and other players who leave the organization blossom into top-6 roles.

The crystal ball retort just tells me you'd rather surround yourself in myopia than actually discuss organizational issues. Which is unsurprising when someone has nothing to contribute.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

They may have here but we won’t know because they were traded.

The next crop has not had a chance to develop but you keep insisting they aren’t going to be developed right. Nice to have a crystal ball.

Because, as has been repeatedly stated, all of the prior evidence has shown they cannot--who has come in and over performed relative to expectations? These guys can churn out just-a-guys like it's going out of style--but our concern (no, it's not insistence) is that, based on what's happening with the handling of Kupari/Vilardi/Tkachev/Clague/even Kaliyev to a degree (who they LIKE!), we're super f***in worried about the development of Byfield, Turcotte, et. al.

You're saying we can't say they've failed until we wait to see IF they fail; I don't want Blake and this development team to have another five years to find out. I don't trust them with a giant ball of clay like Byfield at this point, never mind all the other prospects that have largely stagnated. WE've got a prospect pool 40 people deep now; what # of failures is acceptable and on the player rather than the organization? Because some of us are getting accused/questioned whether we are overhyping...I'm thinking we have infinity lotto tickets and if NONE of them are hitting that's a lot more to do with post-draft than pre-draft.