Analyzing Management and Development
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King'sPawn
Enjoy the chaos
- Jul 1, 2003
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I'm bowing out of this thread. My summation:
- the Kings need to do more than count on first round picks
- they have a history of success in developing defensemen and goalies. Their best players brought up through the system since the beginning of the millenia are Brown, Toffoli, Cammalleri.
- at best, the developmental infrastructure is unproven with developing forwards.
- saying they haven't had the talent isn't a viable defense. Talent is found in every round. So that implies either a drafting or development gap.
- I don't think it's conducive to give players a top-6 role in the AHL and a bottom-6 role in the NHL. It's the equivalent of forcing Sean Durzi on the PK and being a defensive specialist. Put players in positions to succeed, yet insulate them with vets. If they struggle, then dial it back.
- I would rather not wait until the current crop become middling forwards before Blake take action. Wrobo is a great start, but I think there's a lot more wrong in the org based on history.
That's it. This thread is going on ignore. I'm apparently upsetting some people and I've belabored my own years of observation and research tirelessly just to find myself getting stupidly frustrated. So, good luck to those who wish to continue discussing your points.
- the Kings need to do more than count on first round picks
- they have a history of success in developing defensemen and goalies. Their best players brought up through the system since the beginning of the millenia are Brown, Toffoli, Cammalleri.
- at best, the developmental infrastructure is unproven with developing forwards.
- saying they haven't had the talent isn't a viable defense. Talent is found in every round. So that implies either a drafting or development gap.
- I don't think it's conducive to give players a top-6 role in the AHL and a bottom-6 role in the NHL. It's the equivalent of forcing Sean Durzi on the PK and being a defensive specialist. Put players in positions to succeed, yet insulate them with vets. If they struggle, then dial it back.
- I would rather not wait until the current crop become middling forwards before Blake take action. Wrobo is a great start, but I think there's a lot more wrong in the org based on history.
That's it. This thread is going on ignore. I'm apparently upsetting some people and I've belabored my own years of observation and research tirelessly just to find myself getting stupidly frustrated. So, good luck to those who wish to continue discussing your points.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
I think you guys are actually kind of agreeing even though you're butting heads, and I say that because I see both of your points that I agree with in most of my posts too haha.
Every team has top 10 talent on its roster, which is what KP is saying
I think what LAK88 is saying is that you actually have to hit home runs with that talent to win, rather than it just exists.
And KP is also saying you also have to add to that by drafting well in later rounds.
The worry is that our development team can't bring the best out of those, while the counter is we have to wait and see.
I think the actual disagreement is just on that last point, leading us in circles.
Sound about right?
Every team has top 10 talent on its roster, which is what KP is saying
I think what LAK88 is saying is that you actually have to hit home runs with that talent to win, rather than it just exists.
And KP is also saying you also have to add to that by drafting well in later rounds.
The worry is that our development team can't bring the best out of those, while the counter is we have to wait and see.
I think the actual disagreement is just on that last point, leading us in circles.
Sound about right?
Putting him in the top-6 right away isn't development? One of the main arguments I see around here about teams ruining players infers that putting prospects with skill on the fourth line is a terrible development strategy, and that proper development is to put your rookies up on the top lines where they can succeed. Well, we did that with Iafallo and it paid off. It's exactly why I thought Vilardi should be moved to a wing and put up with Kopitar. Iafallo is what he is because of how the Kings utilized him, so yeah, he counts for development. Every interview when he first broke in was about how much he was learning from Kopitar and Brown, and how he's learning how to maximize what he can do. That's the very definition of development.
I think some of it comes down to fit and style. Iaffalo’s game can fit with just about anyone.Yes, I do think they had a good influence on him too.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
For posterity since it's from the GDT, and for later discussion lol
Not only that--they just said on the telecast that Tynan was coming up no matter what, which means JAD wasn't even getting called up until Lizotte went out.
So lost Clague and passed up a guy who has nothing left to prove in the AHL for the 29 year old AHL lifer that couldn't even break in offensively with powerhouse Avalanche.
f***ing galaxy brain Blake, everyone.
Not only that--they just said on the telecast that Tynan was coming up no matter what, which means JAD wasn't even getting called up until Lizotte went out.
So lost Clague and passed up a guy who has nothing left to prove in the AHL for the 29 year old AHL lifer that couldn't even break in offensively with powerhouse Avalanche.
f***ing galaxy brain Blake, everyone.
Yeah it makes even less sense now. The only thing I can think of is maybe with Durzi's offensive play they decided they were going in that direction and did it as a solid for Clague. I supposed they could have waived Maatta, but they surely want to keep his value up to recoup something at the deadline. I think Kale showed he could play in the NHL so give him a shot to earn the big salary.
mysterman2
Registered User
And believe Tynan got some time on the PP2 unit which is mind boggling.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Said it in the GDT yeah....85% ozone deployment, 9:44 of playing time including 3:20 of PP, most on the team
shows us they know HOW to use a guy to his strengths/shelter his weaknesses, all the more insulting because they'll do it for a 29 year old AHL lifer but not our most important 20 year old prospects.
Matt13
Registered User
- Jul 9, 2004
- 5,005
- 1,633
Is it me or does putting this guy in remind you of giving Drake Rymsha a cup of coffee last season? Its like they want the feel good story for the IG page instead of a positive for the organizational development of the future.
I share a lot of your concerns with how we handle prospects, but this might be writing a bit too much into this. Tynan is in a different place than our prospects. Putting a guy like Arty down on the 4th line to learn checking in the short-term does make some sense because it's one of his weaknesses. You want to fix that as much as you can as he's a key part of your future.
There is no reason to do that with Tynan because he's a WYSIWYG player. He's not learning anything so why bother. If he can't make an impression at this point in his career with super favorable deployments he never will. This is nothing more than a reward for his play this year and the last gasp for his NHL aspirations. Getting pissed over an AHL journeyman getting good deployments is a sure sign of our PTSD
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
I share a lot of your concerns with how we handle prospects, but this might be writing a bit too much into this. Tynan is in a different place than our prospects. Putting a guy like Arty down on the 4th line to learn checking in the short-term does make some sense because it's one of his weaknesses. You want to fix that as much as you can as he's a key part of your future.
There is no reason to do that with Tynan because he's a WYSIWYG player. He's not learning anything so why bother. If he can't make an impression at this point in his career with super favorable deployments he never will. This is nothing more than a reward for his play this year and the last gasp for his NHL aspirations. Getting pissed over an AHL journeyman getting good deployments is a sure sign of our PTSD
For sure, it's just that it's a pattern at this point.
Much like our individual game losses--each in isolation? I probably wouldn't be mad. When part of a streak? It's a problem. Prospect (mis)management is a 'streak' if you will and Tynan with his wild ass happy deployment over JAD is one of them.
cyclones22
Registered User
Dollars to donuts that it's a "message" to the youth on how to earn a call-up.
Sorry, you lost me with crap like Jesper Bratt, Drake Batherson, Rudolfs Balcers, Ivan Barbashev, etc. Balcers was with OTT the first two years, I mean if we are using that as a judgement, then why are you discounting Iafallo?
Barbashev is on the bottom six in STL, though to be fair they use a top 9 more than anything, Guentzel spent half a year in the AHL, not "respectable team has a solid top-6 player drafted outside the first round that they developed/spent years with the organization, that is producing like a core player." Point....9 games in the AHL.... Robertson, 1 season in the AHL,
You are using examples that don't fit your point, "respectable team has a solid top-6 player drafted outside the first round that they developed/spent years with the organization, that is producing like a core player."
tny760
Registered User
- Mar 12, 2017
- 20,781
- 22,651
that was my first though as well but i couldn't think of the name, similar to justin auger
those guys paid their dues in the kings system though so i understand why they would, i don't feel the same about tynan. tynan means nothing to this org
Matt13
Registered User
- Jul 9, 2004
- 5,005
- 1,633
Yeah not playing JAD is puzzling, Tynan gets paid whether he's on the ice or not. There's no way JAD isn't in tonight in a back-to-back, right? If he's not in and Tynan is, it reeks of dumbshitery.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Wouldn't be a different message than they've delivered on accountability all year, anyway
"Be a veteran."
Totally obsolete concept. Just look how the Rangers are in the process of absolutely ruining Alex Lafreniere (The 2020 1st overall and most NHL ready prospect) by not putting him in a position to succeed: Those chumps (second overall % in the league) have him grinding down on the 3rd line at a little more than 13 minutes a game. And what does he have to show for it -- 6 points in 23 games and a -3 -- numbers equivalent or below Kupari. Ranger fans must be screaming for Gallant's head. Making players earn a top spot is just a horrible idea.
Sarcastic or not?? I can' tell, but they had him on the 1st and 2nd lines to start off.....wasn't working out there either.
Jesse and Jack with a nice breakdown on the season so far.
All the Kings Men Podcast - Official LA Kings Podcast
All the Kings Men Podcast - Official LA Kings Podcast
cyclones22
Registered User
Those guys are probably the worst at developing. Kakko hasn't shown out either yet. How lucky did they get that Adam Fox didn't want to sign with Calgary after they drafted him and he went the college route allowing him to sign where he wanted? And that they can sign a superstar like Panarin as a UFA.
Some of that is development, but I just don't think Lafreniere was ever that good. The Q is notorious for pumping up offensive stats. He did OK internationally but didn't do anything really impressive until his last year. He edged Fagemo in production, but not by much. They should have taken advantage and sent him to the AHL like was done with Byfield. We may have lucked out with the #2 in that draft, lots of pressure to pick that consensus guy.
Really, the last 3 drafts have been like that. Only a couple guys have come out blazing, I'd say Raymond and Seider for sure. Zegras maybe a tier below, but still very good. Outside of them overall it's been unimpressive overall so far. It will be interesting to look back after a few years and see just how much of an effect limited seasons and quarantines had on scouting.
Really, the last 3 drafts have been like that. Only a couple guys have come out blazing, I'd say Raymond and Seider for sure. Zegras maybe a tier below, but still very good. Outside of them overall it's been unimpressive overall so far. It will be interesting to look back after a few years and see just how much of an effect limited seasons and quarantines had on scouting.
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