Analyzing Management and Development

[Fishhead]

What is imperative to me is that the back end is built up. When the Kings were winning it wasn't eating magic beans that made secondary guys like King and Pearson productive, it was the ability of our D to transition and get moving quickly. As soon as Voynov f'd up and Mitchell left, it was all exposed. Everyone has been down on Anderson lately but he really can get the puck up and out, as does Bjornfot. If we trade for two more solid guys over the next couple of years to slot everyone where they should go, mark my words this team will be a handful.

Development only means so much. 20+ years ago, you won cups through free agency. Since the cap, you win it through trades. And we absolutely need to make some. Right now, I see the roster 2 years down the road as this, with lines in no particular order:

Kopitar-Arvidsson
Danault-Iafallo
Byfield

High probability in the top 9 for Kempe, Kaliyev, Vilardi, and Turcotte.

High probability on the 4th line for Lemieux and Grundstrom, followed by JAD and Thomas.

Bjornfot
Anderson
Doughty

High probability for Clarke. Outside of that one of Roy/Walker will probably be around, but I think it's likely one of them is moved with a prospect to bring in another element on the back end. We are far too redundant with the types of players we have.

I don't have expectations for anyone else we drafted. I think a lot of them will be NHL players, but nothing that can't be replaced. If even one of the group of secondaries like Fagemo, Moverare, Chromiak, Spence, or Faber step up, we'll be in good shape. If two of them pan out, we are in business. And if there is a guy management likes but doesn't fit the vision, they need to be in Ontario where they can tear it up and increase their value.

 

[Fishhead]

Yes, it's just a coincidence the best player developed in the last two decades is Tyler Toffoli and Dustin Brown, and other players who leave the organization blossom into top-6 roles.

The crystal ball retort just tells me you'd rather surround yourself in myopia than actually discuss organizational issues. Which is unsurprising when someone has nothing to contribute.

That first part is true, but the reason that some of those players blossomed when they left is because of who they returned. You don't trade Mike Richards or Jeff Carter if you aren't getting something good in return. But really, how many that were traded or left turned into top-6ers? Simmonds for sure, and Schenn. I really can't think of any others, but I can think of a really long list of guys in our system that didn't do squat after they left.

 

[LAKings88]

Because, as has been repeatedly stated, all of the prior evidence has shown they cannot--who has come in and over performed relative to expectations? These guys can churn out just-a-guys like it's going out of style--but our concern (no, it's not insistence) is that, based on what's happening with the handling of Kupari/Vilardi/Tkachev/Clague/even Kaliyev to a degree (who they LIKE!), we're super f***in worried about the development of Byfield, Turcotte, et. al.

You're saying we can't say they've failed until we wait to see IF they fail; I don't want Blake and this development team to have another five years to find out. I don't trust them with a giant ball of clay like Byfield at this point, never mind all the other prospects that have largely stagnated. WE've got a prospect pool 40 people deep now; what # of failures is acceptable and on the player rather than the organization? Because some of us are getting accused/questioned whether we are overhyping...I'm thinking we have infinity lotto tickets and if NONE of them are hitting that's a lot more to do with post-draft than pre-draft.

I'm saying this crop is not equal to crops drafted before. I can't remember the last time they had the talent to work with like they have now. I'm not going to assume they mess it up. Kingspawn keeps saying they were a part of the DL group and can be held accountable for that. I think they have moved away from those tendencies to a degree and have also moved toward a development mindset. You are operating from a place of fear and I get it, I just think that we don't know yet. The cake isn't baked. These guys are being inserted into games and getting opportunities tho. You also can't ignore some of the flaws they need to work on which I feel is happening a lot. Being critical is fine, but I don't see evidence of what you say is taking place yet and I do look for more reasoning behind decisions than they just don't know what they are doing. I know we are not on the same page about Kaliyev or Vilardi. I actually am more intrigued about who has been taken (at the draft) over other options at this point. That could be an interesting discussion on philosophy. The Kings do have a crowded pool. I hope the cream will rise up. I hope they can trade prospects when the time comes. I hope and pray these prospects produce when they are giving opportunities. Bottom line seems to be you don't want them developing talent where I am saying give them a chance to integrate the guys they drafted. I've said before, this is not the next era group yet. It is a base and a bit of transition still hence the additions over the summer. The rebuild is done in the sense that they traded vets out, now is the development and integration part. Kopi and Doughty are insulators that still have value. A team like the Sens don't have that, which model is better is debatable I guess.

 

[LAKings88]

What is imperative to me is that the back end is built up. When the Kings were winning it wasn't eating magic beans that made secondary guys like King and Pearson productive, it was the ability of our D to transition and get moving quickly. As soon as Voynov f'd up and Mitchell left, it was all exposed. Everyone has been down on Anderson lately but he really can get the puck up and out, as does Bjornfot. If we trade for two more solid guys over the next couple of years to slot everyone where they should go, mark my words this team will be a handful.

Development only means so much. 20+ years ago, you won cups through free agency. Since the cap, you win it through trades. And we absolutely need to make some. Right now, I see the roster 2 years down the road as this, with lines in no particular order:

Kopitar-Arvidsson
Danault-Iafallo
Byfield

High probability in the top 9 for Kempe, Kaliyev, Vilardi, and Turcotte.

High probability on the 4th line for Lemieux and Grundstrom, followed by JAD and Thomas.

Bjornfot
Anderson
Doughty

High probability for Clarke. Outside of that one of Roy/Walker will probably be around, but I think it's likely one of them is moved with a prospect to bring in another element on the back end. We are far too redundant with the types of players we have.

I don't have expectations for anyone else we drafted. I think a lot of them will be NHL players, but nothing that can't be replaced. If even one of the group of secondaries like Fagemo, Moverare, Chromiak, Spence, or Faber step up, we'll be in good shape. If two of them pan out, we are in business. And if there is a guy management likes but doesn't fit the vision, they need to be in Ontario where they can tear it up and increase their value.

I think the Kings defense is a big issue. Mobility and pace. It has made strides this year but I do believe Spence, Faber, and Clarke, will have opportunities to replace guys soon. Faber is the guy I most am looking forward too. The buzz around Clarke is a bit concerning but I hope he uses it as motivation to make some people look really bad.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'm saying this crop is not equal to crops drafted before. I can't remember the last time they had the talent to work with like they have now. I'm not going to assume they mess it up. Kingspawn keeps saying they were a part of the DL group and can be held accountable for that. I think they have moved away from those tendencies to a degree and have also moved toward a development mindset. You are operating from a place of fear and I get it, I just think that we don't know yet. The cake isn't baked. These guys are being inserted into games and getting opportunities tho. You also can't ignore some of the flaws they need to work on which I feel is happening a lot. Being critical is fine, but I don't see evidence of what you say is taking place yet and I do look for more reasoning behind decisions than they just don't know what they are doing. I know we are not on the same page about Kaliyev or Vilardi. I actually am more intrigued about who has been taken (at the draft) over other options at this point. That could be an interesting discussion on philosophy. The Kings do have a crowded pool. I hope the cream will rise up. I hope they can trade prospects when the time comes. I hope and pray these prospects produce when they are giving opportunities. Bottom line seems to be you don't want them developing talent where I am saying give them a chance to integrate the guys they drafted. I've said before, this is not the next era group yet. It is a base and a bit of transition still hence the additions over the summer. The rebuild is done in the sense that they traded vets out, now is the development and integration part. Kopi and Doughty are insulators that still have value. A team like the Sens don't have that, which model is better is debatable I guess.

yes, we totally agree on that, and I'm certainly operating from a place of worry. That being said, this isn't a recent concern--I know AT LEAST @King'sPawn and I and a couple of others had this discussion I think right after Vilardi was drafted. So it's not just coming out of a sudden instinct--we discussed even back then that Vilardi was their first real 'test' since Toffoli.

I think we just disagree on 'integration.' And i'm absolutely not ignoring flaws--these guys all have plenty to work on. But you don't see other teams worry so much about flaws when they're playing Robert Thomas and Kyrou in key positions in the top six, Dawson Mercer up top, Raymond, Zegras, newhook, Jarvis, Sillinger...how many of those guys are finished products? I can't think of any other teams that are so scared of trying that out like the Kings are, can you? And the vast majority of those teams are playoff challengers if not contenders, yet they are 100% fine letting kids make mistakes in big minutes...

 

[LAKings88]

yes, we totally agree on that, and I'm certainly operating from a place of worry. That being said, this isn't a recent concern--I know AT LEAST @King'sPawn and I and a couple of others had this discussion I think right after Vilardi was drafted. So it's not just coming out of a sudden instinct--we discussed even back then that Vilardi was their first real 'test' since Toffoli.

I think we just disagree on 'integration.' And i'm absolutely not ignoring flaws--these guys all have plenty to work on. But you don't see other teams worry so much about flaws when they're playing Robert Thomas and Kyrou in key positions in the top six, Dawson Mercer up top, Raymond, Zegras, newhook, Jarvis, Sillinger...how many of those guys are finished products? I can't think of any other teams that are so scared of trying that out like the Kings are, can you? And the vast majority of those teams are playoff challengers if not contenders, yet they are 100% fine letting kids make mistakes in big minutes...

I think Byfield would have been on that list this year without the injury. I just think the bulk of development is being handled in the AHL right now. A lot of the kings top guys have also had injuries which set development back a little.

 

[King'sPawn]

I'm saying this crop is not equal to crops drafted before. I can't remember the last time they had the talent to work with like they have now.

And we're full circle with the same conversation @Raccoon Jesus and others had as recently as last year. This conversation and excuse is nothing new.

Yannetti and co has been here since 2007. So is the lack of talent because the scouting department is bad, in that they can only acquire talent with high first-round picks? Because you can get talent from the 2nd round onward. Toffoli was a second rounder.

If you feel the scouting is solid, then they have access to the talent to develop.

A good team CANNOT require high first round picks to guarantee success. That is a drafting or development problem.

 

[LAKings88]

And we're full circle with the same conversation @Raccoon Jesus and others had as recently as last year. This conversation and excuse is nothing new.

Yannetti and co has been here since 2007. So is the lack of talent because the scouting department is bad, in that they can only acquire talent with high first-round picks? Because you can get talent from the 2nd round onward. Toffoli was a second rounder.

If you feel the scouting is solid, then they have access to the talent to develop.

A good team CANNOT require high first round picks to guarantee success. That is a drafting or development problem.

It depends. Doughty and Schenn were no brainers at their spots. Yes LA has done well in the second round. Typically a top five pick should be harder to mess up. The 2015 draft could have yielded Connor in a deep draft. Could have been a step in the right direction for DL unless you think he would not have developed the same. DL likely could of taken Zboril anyway.

Vilardi was taken over Necas/Suzuki
Turcotte over Zegras
Byfield over Raymond

It will take time to see what these players do and what team success they will have.

 

[Fishhead]

You can draft well all you want in the later rounds, but you need those high picks to be successful. Look at the drafts from 2008-2018 and count how many difference makers are taken outside of the first round. Single digits pretty much each year, so odds are pretty low. There aren't many cup winners that don't have those high picks.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Turcotte over Zegras

I hate that argument/comparison....Kings picked 5th and Zegras was taken at the 9th, so the Kings aren't the only team who 'passed' on Zegras. Most rankings out there had Turcotte in the top 5, so it's not like the Kings went off the board. Hell, right now you could argue that Zegras was the better pick than Kakko and Hughes.

Oh, and Vilardi was ranked way higher than #11 on any rankings I'm seeing, so most considered that a steal for the Kings.

 

[King'sPawn]

You can draft well all you want in the later rounds, but you need those high picks to be successful. Look at the drafts from 2008-2018 and count how many difference makers are taken outside of the first round. Single digits pretty much each year, so odds are pretty low. There aren't many cup winners that don't have those high picks.

And yet, almost every good/respectable team has a solid top-6 player drafted outside the first round that they developed/spent years with the organization, that is producing like a core player.

Anaheim: Troy Terry
Arizona: do you want to be like Arizona?
Boston: Brad Marchand, Patrice Bergeron
Buffalo: not that they're great, but Victor Olofsson
Calgary: Johnny Gaudreau, Andrew Mangiapane
Carolina: Sebastian Aho
Chicago: Alex Debrincat
Colorado: none*
Columbus: Oliver Bjorkstrand, Boone Jenner
Dallas: Jason Robertson, Roope Hintz
Detroit: Tyler Bertuzzi
Edmonton: none*
Florida: none*
Minnesota: Kirill Kaprizov
Montreal: Brendan Gallagher
Nashville: similar boat as LA. They just traded to LA Viktor Arvidsson. So none
New Jersey: Jesper Bratt
Islanders: none. Their top players are all mid-late firsts or from outside the org.
Rangers: none*
Ottawa: Drake Batherson
Philadelphia: none
Pittsburgh: Jake Guentzel
San Jose: Rudolfs Balcers
Seattle: too early
St Louis: Jordan Kyrou, Ivan Barbashev
Tampa Bay: Alex Killorn, Nikita Kucherov, Anthony Cirelli, Brayden Point, Ondrej Palat
Toronto: none*
Vancouver: Nils Hoglander
Vegas: none, but they're an expansion team still leaning on a large core of players from expansion. I don't know if I want to follow their model/infrastructure
Washington: none*
Winnipeg: Andrew Copp

* these teams all have multiple top-5 or straight up first overall picks they lean on heavily. They are currently the exception, but this leans into top picks who succeed in spite of the organization, meaning these aren't sustainable models long term.

So aside from Arizona, Philadelphia, Nashville, the Islanders, expansion teams, and lottery winners, every team has a player on their roster drafted outside the first round in the past 2 decades producing this year among the top 6 forwards.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Honestly, it's really going to take a few players - hopefully 3 - to just kill it and buck the trend of the 2-3 year development curve and just be a FACTOR, in their first year.
Need to have a few like Kopitar, Doughty, Quick to just step in and be a FACTOR. Part of that, will be that the Kings ALLOW them to go out and
find their way. The creme de le creme overcome and do that. Were Kopi and Doughty complete players, year 1? No. But they had enough skill and compete to play.

I identify 2: Byfield and Clarke. Kind of like how Kopi and Doughty came in and took over, from year 1. Quick, took a little time, but took it, his
first year on Kings. So, will have to be one more. I'm hoping ANY OF: Kaliyev, Kupari, JAD, Turcotte, Chromiak, Vilardi, Fagemo, Thomas, Madden, Faber, Helenius,
Now, some of those are bottom 6, so not big expectations....but need a few good bottom 6 that can be better than a Moore or Lizotte.
Honestly hoping Lemieux and Andersson can be keys too. BUT, need a top level player, top 6. Chromiak? Kaliyev? Best shots....and Turcotte possibly.
I hope Akil Thomas rises to a top player. It's possible

 

[LAKings88]

I hate that argument/comparison....Kings picked 5th and Zegras was taken at the 9th, so the Kings aren't the only team who 'passed' on Zegras. Most rankings out there had Turcotte in the top 5, so it's not like the Kings went off the board. Hell, right now you could argue that Zegras was the better pick than Kakko and Hughes.

Oh, and Vilardi was ranked way higher than #11 on any rankings I'm seeing, so most considered that a steal for the Kings.

The Kings scouts talked about Zegras in discussion for that pick. I was happy with the Turcotte pick and still think he’ll be good but philosophically he was more of the same.

 

[LAKings88]

And yet, almost every good/respectable team has a solid top-6 player drafted outside the first round that they developed, that is producing like a core player.

Anaheim: Troy Terry
Arizona: do you want to be like Arizona?
Boston: Brad Marchand, Patrice Bergeron
Buffalo: not that they're great, but Victor Olofsson
Calgary: Johnny Gaudreau, Andrew Mangiapane
Carolina: Sebastian Aho
Chicago: Alex Debrincat
Colorado: none*
Columbus: Oliver Bjorkstrand, Alexander Texier, Boone Jenner
Dallas: Jason Robertson, Roope Hintz
Detroit: Tyler Bertuzzi
Edmonton: none*

Edit: continuing the list, but the browser was acting weird. So I posted before everything went to ****

How many top ten picks are on the last few cup teams? To lazy to look it up right now but I’m guessing all.

 

[King'sPawn]

How many top ten picks are on the last few cup teams? To lazy to look it up right now but I’m guessing all.

Every team has a top-10 pick on their roster except Minnesota. So I can look it up (or you can if you want to make a point), but that's a really wide net.

There are literally 100 top-10 picks from the past decade. By average there would be 3 available to each team.

 

[LAKings88]

Every team has a top-10 pick on their roster except Minnesota. So I can look it up (or you can if you want to make a point), but that's a really wide net.

There are literally 100 top-10 picks from the past decade. By average there would be 3 available to each team.

Cup teams was more to the point.

Tampa had Stamkos/Hedman. Kucherov was I think in the teens. Point was a great pick.

Blues had Petrangelo/Schenn/OReilly was the first pick of the second round.

Washington had Ovi/Backstrom/Kuznetsov. Carlson was a late 1st.

Pitt Crosby/Malkin

Chicago Kane/Toews

LA Brown/Kopi (just outside) Doughty

 

[King'sPawn]

Cup teams was more to the point.

Tampa had Stamkos/Hedman. Kucherov was I think in the teens. Point was a great pick.

Blues had Petrangelo/Schenn/OReilly was the first pick of the second round.

Washington had Ovi/Backstrom/Kuznetsov. Carlson was a late 1st.

Pitt Crosby/Malkin

Chicago Kane/Toews

LA Brown/Kopi (just outside) Doughty

Kucherov was a 2nd round pick.

O'Reilly was a 2nd round pick.

Kuznetsov was a late 1st.

So, the past few cup teams had a couple top-10 picks.

What are you trying to point out?

 

[LAKings88]

Top picks seem pretty important

 

[Fishhead]

Teams that win cups usually have multiple high picks making a difference for sure. Usually top 5 talents. Hard to win without them.

The Kings do have a really good 8th rounder in the top 6 at least, Iafallo was great identification by management.

 

[King'sPawn]

Top picks seem pretty important

I NEVER said getting top picks was unimportant. But organizations cannot depend on drafting in the top 10 to fill out their top-6 forwards.

These are the top 10 picks on each team who have played at least one game this season. It's no guarantee that you'll win shit. So pointing out just the cup winners is cherrypicking and asinine.

Anaheim: Zegras, Jamie Drysdale, Hampus Lindholm
Arizona: Clayton Keller, Phil Kessel, Andrew Ladd
Boston: Taylor Hall
Buffalo: Jeff Skinner, Kyle Okposo, Rasmus Dahlin, Dylan Cozens, Casey Mittelstadt
Calgary: Matthew Tkachuk, Sean Monohan, Noah Hanifin, Elias Lindholm, Erik Gudbranson
Carolina: Andrei Svechnikov, Jordan Staal, Jesperi Kotkaniemi
Chicago: Patrick Kane, Seth Jones, Jonathan Toews, Kirby Dach, Dylan Strome, Marc-Andre Fleury
Colorado: Nazem Kadri, Gabriel Landeskog, Cale Makar, Mikko Rantanen, Valeri Nichushkin, Bowen Byram, Erik Johnson, Jack Johnson, Tyson Jost
Columbus: Jakub Voracek, Zach Werenski, Patrik Laine, Cole Sillinger, Adam Boqvist
Dallas: Miro Heiskanen, Ryan Suter, Tyler Seguin
Detroit: Lucas Raymond, Moritz Seider, Sam Gagner, Filip Zadina, Michael Rasmussen
Edmonton: Leon Draisaitl, Connor McDavid, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Jesse Puljujarvi, Evan Bouchard, Darnell Nurse, Kyle Turris, Philip Broberg
Florida: Jonathan Huberdeau, Aaron Ekblad, Sam Reinhart, Aleksander Barkov, Sam Bennett, Owen Tippett, Joe Thornton
LA: Drew Doughty, Lias Andersson
Montreal: Jonathan Drouin
Nashville: Matt Duchene, Ryan Johansen, Cody Glass
New Jersey: Dougie Hamilton, Nico Hischier, Jack Hughes, Pavel Zacha, Alexander Holtz
Islanders: Josh Bailey
Rangers: Mika Zibanejad, Ryan Strome, Jacob Trouba, Kaapo Kakko, Alexis Lafreniere
Ottawa: Brady Tkachuk, Tim Stutzle
Philadelphia: Sean Coutourier, Ivan Provorov, James Van Riemsdyk, Rasmus Ristolainen
Pittsburgh: Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin
San Jose: Logan Couture, William Eklund, Timo Meier
Seattle: Haydn Fleury, Adam Larson
St. Louis: Brayden Schenn
Tampa Bay: Steven Stamkos, Victor Hedman, Zach Bogosian
Toronto: Auston Matthews, John Tavares, William Nylander, Mitchell Marner, Jason Spezza, Nick Ritchie
Vancouver: Quinn Hughes, Bo Horvat, Elias Petterson, Vasiliy Podkolzin, Luke Schenn, Oliver Ekman-Larson
Vegas: Alex Pietrangelo
Washington: Niklas Backstrom, Alexander Ovechkin
Winnipeg: Pierre-Luc Dubois, Nikolaj Ehlers, Mark Scheifele, Blake Wheeler, Cole Perfetti

Virtually every team has someone on their roster they picked out of the first round giving top-6 production, developed within the team. Except the Kings. And you're pointing out cup-winners. I'm pointing out systemic issues within the orgqnization.

 

[LAKings88]

I NEVER said getting top picks was unimportant. But organizations cannot depend on drafting in the top 10 to fill out their top-6 forwards.

These are the top 10 picks on each team who have played at least one game this season. It's no guarantee that you'll win shit. So pointing out just the cup winners is cherrypicking and asinine.

Anaheim: Zegras, Jamie Drysdale, Hampus Lindholm
Arizona: Clayton Keller, Phil Kessel, Andrew Ladd
Boston: Taylor Hall
Buffalo: Jeff Skinner, Kyle Okposo, Rasmus Dahlin, Dylan Cozens, Casey Mittelstadt
Calgary: Matthew Tkachuk, Sean Monohan, Noah Hanifin, Elias Lindholm, Erik Gudbranson
Carolina: Andrei Svechnikov, Jordan Staal, Jesperi Kotkaniemi
Chicago: Patrick Kane, Seth Jones, Jonathan Toews, Kirby Dach, Dylan Strome, Marc-Andre Fleury
Colorado: Nazem Kadri, Gabriel Landeskog, Cale Makar, Mikko Rantanen, Valeri Nichushkin, Bowen Byram, Erik Johnson, Jack Johnson, Tyson Jost
Columbus: Jakub Voracek, Zach Werenski, Patrik Laine, Cole Sillinger, Adam Boqvist
Dallas: Miro Heiskanen, Ryan Suter, Tyler Seguin
Detroit: Lucas Raymond, Moritz Seider, Sam Gagner, Filip Zadina, Michael Rasmussen
Edmonton: Leon Draisaitl, Connor McDavid, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Jesse Puljujarvi, Evan Bouchard, Darnell Nurse, Kyle Turris, Philip Broberg
Florida: Jonathan Huberdeau, Aaron Ekblad, Sam Reinhart, Aleksander Barkov, Sam Bennett, Owen Tippett, Joe Thornton
LA: Drew Doughty, Lias Andersson
Montreal: Jonathan Drouin
Nashville: Matt Duchene, Ryan Johansen, Cody Glass
New Jersey: Dougie Hamilton, Nico Hischier, Jack Hughes, Pavel Zacha, Alexander Holtz
Islanders: Josh Bailey
Rangers: Mika Zibanejad, Ryan Strome, Jacob Trouba, Kaapo Kakko, Alexis Lafreniere
Ottawa: Brady Tkachuk, Tim Stutzle
Philadelphia: Sean Coutourier, Ivan Provorov, James Van Riemsdyk, Rasmus Ristolainen
Pittsburgh: Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin
San Jose: Logan Couture, William Eklund, Timo Meier
Seattle: Haydn Fleury, Adam Larson
St. Louis: Brayden Schenn
Tampa Bay: Steven Stamkos, Victor Hedman, Zach Bogosian
Toronto: Auston Matthews, John Tavares, William Nylander, Mitchell Marner, Jason Spezza, Nick Ritchie
Vancouver: Quinn Hughes, Bo Horvat, Elias Petterson, Vasiliy Podkolzin, Luke Schenn, Oliver Ekman-Larson
Vegas: Alex Pietrangelo
Washington: Niklas Backstrom, Alexander Ovechkin
Winnipeg: Pierre-Luc Dubois, Nikolaj Ehlers, Mark Scheifele, Blake Wheeler, Cole Perfetti

Virtually every team has someone on their roster they picked out of the first round giving top-6 production, developed within the team. Except the Kings. And you're pointing out cup-winners. I'm pointing out systemic issues within the orgqnization.

“A good team CANNOT require high first round picks to guarantee success. That is a drafting or development problem.”

Seems to me you need the base of high picks more than developing top six players outside rounds 1 and 2.

Some teams even shockingly trade for secondary scoring.

There is no guarantee in building through top picks or one way to build a championship team. Top draft picks do seem pretty damn important to turning a team’s fortunes.

f*** off with your condescending asinine bs.

 

[Fishhead]

I NEVER said getting top picks was unimportant. But organizations cannot depend on drafting in the top 10 to fill out their top-6 forwards.



Virtually every team has someone on their roster they picked out of the first round giving top-6 production, developed within the team. Except the Kings. And you're pointing out cup-winners. I'm pointing out systemic issues within the orgqnization.

Iafallo doesn't count? He's a top-3 forward for us and he's undrafted. That's a hell of a lot more impressive than a 2nd rounder pulling it off. Way more teams passed on him, yet the Kings identified him and developed him into one of our top players.

 

[King'sPawn]

“A good team CANNOT require high first round picks to guarantee success. That is a drafting or development problem.”

Seems to me you need the base of high picks more than developing top six players outside rounds 1 and 2.

Some teams even shockingly trade for secondary scoring.

There is no guarantee in building through top picks or one way to build a championship team. Top draft picks do seem pretty damn important to turning a team’s fortunes.

f*** off with your condescending asinine bs.

You keep throwing out irrelevant information you are too lazy to confirm to counter points that have nothing to do with the underlying issue.

Every team has top-10 picks. So pointing out cup winners that have top-10 picks while ignoring the teams that fail and have top-10 picks is asinine.

The Kings have picked top-10 three seasons in a row. One of which is a defenseman. The f*** does that have to do with developing top-6 talent with forwards?

Do we have to wait until the Kings pick forwards in the top-10 6 years in a row to fill out the top-6? Because that's a f***ing problem. And that's my point. You CAN'T depend on picking top-10 to do your goddamn work for you. That's the point. Is that clear? No cup-winning team has a top-6 completely based on first rounders. So you have to do more with the 2nd round onward.

Iafallo doesn't count? He's a top-3 forward for us and he's undrafted. That's a hell of a lot more impressive than a 2nd rounder pulling it off. Way more teams passed on him, yet the Kings identified him and developed him into one of our top players.

In the conversation of development, it doesn't count. I've addressed this. Iafallo was NHL ready, and he played into a top-6 role from the moment he was signed. That's a testament to the awesome scouting done. But as far as the development staff spending time with prospects to get them NHL ready for a top-6 role, no. He's not a product of development.

 

[LAKings88]

You keep throwing out irrelevant information you are too lazy to confirm to counter points that have nothing to do with the underlying issue.

Every team has top-10 picks. So pointing out cup winners that have top-10 picks while ignoring the teams that fail and have top-10 picks is asinine.

The Kings have picked top-10 three seasons in a row. One of which is a defenseman. The f*** does that have to do with developing top-6 talent with forwards?

Do we have to wait until the Kings pick forwards in the top-10 6 years in a row to fill out the top-6? Because that's a f***ing problem. And that's my point. You CAN'T depend on picking top-10 to do your goddamn work for you. That's the point. Is that clear? No cup-winning team has a top-6 completely based on first rounders. So you have to do more with the 2nd round onward.



In the conversation of development, it doesn't count. I've addressed this. Iafallo was NHL ready, and he played into a top-6 role from the moment he was signed. That's a testament to the awesome scouting done. But as far as the development staff spending time with prospects to get them NHL ready for a top-6 role, no. He's not a product of development.

I am f***ing done talking to you. The Kings just drafted 2cd overall and 5th overall centers to my point. You can’t even wait a single f***ing minute to let them be developed and added into the lineup before condemning the development staff. Teams get old and go through rebuilds.

 

[Schmooley]

I am f***ing done talking to you. The Kings just drafted 2cd overall and 5th overall centers to my point. You can’t even wait a single f***ing minute to let them be developed and added into the lineup before condemning the development staff. Teams get old and go through rebuilds.

Add them to the lineup where? In the bottom six next to grinders? 3 top 10 picks were centers in Byfield, Turcotte, Vilardi. No spots in the top six until Kopitar is off the books. As you see with Brown and Matt Roy there is nothing a prospect can do to get ahead in Tmacs eyes even if the competing veterans are playing horribly and worse than any rookie.
You keep defending Kopitar and Danault like they are taking over games and in first place in the division. They are not.