Analyzing Dubas's Performance - III

[93LEAFS]

Their 1st year contract percentage is irrelevant. They did not know the cap was going to jump up 4.5m the next year when they signed.

No, McDavid's is the equivalent of about 2m more for 3 more years. It's comparable if anything, just like their level of production.

There production isn't comparable.

And, yes, they did expect the cap to rise, because it did every year until the pandemic. So, measuring them by the first year of their contract taking effect is the best measurement. So, since you can't even acknowledge that, you don't even really believe in cap-percentage as an actual measurement.

 

[93LEAFS]

If Kadri wins the CS would that affect your analysis of Dubas' performance?

For some, no, because he'd always get suspended for the Leafs.

For me, a bit, although, its hard to value that trade much lower, or Dubas's entire performance as GM outside the Sandin and Robertson picks.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Well I was looking at "that level of player" as you indicated in your post.

What are you talking about? We were talking about post-ELC contracts. I don't know why you came in with UFA contracts. They're different things.

So i would need to look at historical post-ELC contracts, done on rebuilding teams, before the player has broken out.....well I imagine that would narrow the field significantly.

No... just post-ELC contracts. I just also described the type of teams/player you tend to see them for, which doesn't really align with the situation we had with the Leafs and Matthews.

 

[TmlHockeyFan]

If Kadri wins the CS would that affect your analysis of Dubas' performance?

Dubas is an idiot.

 

[saffronleaf]

I hope Dubas is watching the playoffs

 

[Scruffers]

If Kadri wins the CS would that affect your analysis of Dubas' performance?

I already thought it was a terrible trade when it was made, and it really brought down my opinion of Dubas.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Kadri won the Conn Smythe and a Cup this season; after all, that sounds like exactly the sort of thing that us Leafs fans would have to suffer through.

 

[Dekes For Days]

There production isn't comparable. And, yes, they did expect the cap to rise, because it did every year until the pandemic.

The production level was comparable, and of course they expected the cap to rise, but it was not expected to rise that significantly. It doesn't make much sense to use their 1st year cap, when that's not what they were signed under. It's pretty obvious that's only being done because the cap had a huge jump the year after McDavid/Eichel signed, while the cap went up much less than expected the year after Matthews signed.

 

[capfit9]

If Kadri wins the CS would that affect your analysis of Dubas' performance?

It would be the equivalent to Chiarelli trading Hall for Larsson and then Hall winning the Hart. Well at least EDM still has Larsson and Chiarelli is where again ?

 

[HarryLime]

Fire Dubas

 

[ToneDog]

I hope Dubas is watching the playoffs

I hope the idiots on the board are. The same idiots that agreed to allow Shanny to let their HOF, 2 time SC winner GM walk and be replaced by a novice. And here we are two years later watching the Bruins, TB and Lou's Isles in the playoffs while our skilled, overpaid players are golfing once again.

 

[saffronleaf]

I hope the idiots on the board are. The same idiots that agreed to allow Shanny to let their HOF, 2 time SC winner GM walk and be replaced by a novice. And here we are two years later watching the Bruins, TB and Lou's Isles in the playoffs while our skilled, overpaid players are golfing once again.

Don't forget the Avs!

 

[Dragao6]

Kadri with 2 more....its like everything we do is the opposite of what should be done lol
Always against trading kadri but everyone losing their marbles because he actually plays with an edge haha

 

[wmark]

It's crazy how people on this board are convinced that Keerfoot is equal to Kadri.

Rookie GM got fleeced.

 

[rumman]

I hope the idiots on the board are. The same idiots that agreed to allow Shanny to let their HOF, 2 time SC winner GM walk and be replaced by a novice. And here we are two years later watching the Bruins, TB and Lou's Isles in the playoffs while our skilled, overpaid players are golfing once again.

one has to wonder if the MLSE board are onboard with the Prez and GM, perhaps they too need replacing?

 

[ToneDog]

Don't forget the Avs!

I only mentioned our foes. I enjoy watching the teams from the west.

 

[93LEAFS]

The production level was comparable, and of course they expected the cap to rise, but it was not expected to rise that significantly. It doesn't make much sense to use their 1st year cap, when that's not what they were signed under. It's pretty obvious that's only being done because the cap had a huge jump the year after McDavid/Eichel signed, while the cap went up much less than expected the year after Matthews signed.

So, your telling me we should use different cap-percentages to compare Matthews with Marner/Point etc, because they were signed at a later date?

1st year cap is by far the most obvious measurement. But, you ignore it because it defeats you point. You continually use numbers dishonestly.

I mean, Brayden Point outproduced Matthews over the past 2 year. 156 points to Matthes 153. He makes only 8.28% of the Cap according to cap-friendly. Matthews makes 14.63%. They signed for the exact same starting year. Now, this is ignoring a ton of factors (similar to the ones you choose to ignore when comparing Matthews to Eichel and McDavid). One, Matthews is measured against the previous cap, two, Point is only signed for 3 years. It also ignores external factors like taxes.

You want to use the cap-friendly measurement because it appears to make Matthews closer in cap-percentage to Eichel than McDavid. When, the first year of the contract should be the starting point for any percentage-based measurement.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Marner's the only one that really frustrates me because he got paid so much, it's almost impossible for him to outperform his contract so in that sense, zero upside for the team. So while it was possible for Rielly and Kadri to outperform their deals, we have almost no such hope at all with the big 3, especially Marner. And Marner hadn't done it long enough to deserve that kind of payday, it would have made more sense to bridge him. Even if he had another great year or two he could still hardly demand more than he got so no risk in a bridge teal for the team. Unless of course Dubas was so thrilled with him that he thought a 120 point season was a possibility ...

Marner's agent hit it out of the park and all Dubas can do now, is stand there in the middle of the field with a dumb look on his face watching the ball fly over the fence.

A bridge would have been interesting but then I worry about what he and his agent would have demanded if he had put up another couple of 90 or even 100 pt seasons.

What pisses me off is the three saying they would take home town discounts to be competitive and then both Marner and Nylander's agents had ridiculous demands on their end. I get that the agents want to cash in or start high and work their way down but Nylander demanding 8.5M after 2 60 pt seasons and then holding out for it was ridiculous. The whole situation with Mitch, his dad and his agent pissed me off to the point where I wouldn't mind trading him if we can get a decent D man in return.

Auston was going to get paid no matter what.

 

[ToneDog]

one has to wonder if the MLSE board are onboard with the Prez and GM, perhaps they too need replacing?

Unfortunately they would have made Shanny and Dubas walk the plank already if they planned on replacing them. Not sure how much more incompetance and Leaf fans displeasure they need to see before they wake up and and clean house.

 

[Metroid]

We lost out on the kadri deal. Sucks. Oh well. Stop yer whining already... Beating a dead horse.
Teams make poopy trades all the time and re-group from them. Caps with forsberg, bruins with thorton ect.

We get it some of ya hate dubas. We heard ya loud and clear. Take a chill pill and enjoy the summer before covid shuts everything down again for the potential second wave lol. (Hopefully not)

 

[ToneDog]

A bridge would have been interesting but then I worry about what he and his agent would have demanded if he had put up another couple of 90 or even 100 pt seasons.

What pisses me off is the three saying they would take home town discounts to be competitive and then both Marner and Nylander's agents had ridiculous demands on their end. I get that the agents want to cash in or start high and work their way down but Nylander demanding 8.5M after 2 60 pt seasons and then holding out for it was ridiculous. The whole situation with Mitch, his dad and his agent pissed me off to the point where I wouldn't mind trading him if we can get a decent D man in return.

Auston was going to get paid no matter what.

Mitch and Willie could have asked for whatever they wanted to. It was up to our genius GM to stick to his guns and not budge. The fool misread the tea leaves each year he has been in charge. Willie came in out of shape and barely made an impact in year 1 and the Mitch contract forced wonder boy to shed cap space for the Magician and not realise that he had a team barely playoff worthy.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So, your telling me we should use different cap-percentages to compare Matthews with Marner/Point etc, because they were signed at a later date?

They were signed under different caps with different information, yes.

I mean, Brayden Point outproduced Matthews over the past 2 year. 156 points to Matthes 153. He makes only 8.28% of the Cap according to cap-friendly.

He also played more games, got more PP TOI, and has way better linemates, and is not the driver of production on his line. And his contract was a bridge. Also, I'm not sure why we're now talking about post-signing production. Point didn't even hit P/GP this year.

(similar to the ones you choose to ignore when comparing Matthews to Eichel and McDavid).

I never ignored term, or these other factors that influenced Point's production.

 

[capfit9]

It's crazy how people on this board are convinced that Keerfoot is equal to Kadri.

Rookie GM got fleeced.

getting fleeced by GM's and agents

 

[Drytoast]

Ya...we lost the Kadri trade about as much as we possibly could.

Maybe Kerfoot breaks out? Who knows?

 

[Drytoast]

Has Dubas even said anything outside of "nope"?

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Mitch and Willie could have asked for whatever they wanted to. It was up to our genius GM to stick to his guns and not budge. The fool misread the tea leaves each year he has been in charge. Willie came in out of shape and barely made an impact in year 1 and the Mitch contract forced wonder boy to shed cap space for the Magician and not realise that he had a team barely playoff worthy.

Dubas held pretty firm on the Willy negotiation as he got them down from their ask of 8.5 to 6.9 which was fair for both sides and great now. Despite what some here say, it was Willie that caved last minute to get the deal done.

The Marner negotiations could've been handled better. Dubas should have been more firm on their side and said these are your comparables and you will get within this range. Marner's camp was being ridiculous with refusing to listen to any comparables.

 

[CelticDruid]

Kadri is whipping Kyles ass right now!

Good for him,I hope he wins the cup!