Proposal: ANA-BOS-WPG three way trade

[JetsHomer]

lol myers aint ****

Lol that graph ain't ****

Just to be clear the metrics the graph presents are not comprehensively tracked anywhere in the public domain. Some NHL teams may track them league wide but these are not publicly available. Where or how the numbers in it were gathered, what teams were observed and how many games they were observed for is a complete unknown, so I doubt many "advanced stats people" give it much weight.

 

[mytduxfan*]

My problem with Fowler is his play away from the puck, lack of physicality and weak board play lead to him getting trapped in his zone often with difficulty breaking up the cycle. Give him the puck and he's amazing, but away from the puck his play is too soft to make him an effective defensive player.

He reminds me of Myers, I have pretty much the exact same concerns with Myers' game as I do with Fowler's

These are fair criticisms of Fowler, but the fact is that Fowler is so a good a disrupting the puck with his elite level skating that teams just don't get setup on him that often. I mean, you're right, when it does happen, he's pretty useless because he's not a great shot blocker and very weak along the boards, but it doesn't happen often enough to the point that anyone can say "he's bad D-man" and when it does happen it's usually a **** on Bieksa's part. Where Fowler excels is not allowing the oppositions offence to get setup by retrieving dump-ins and exiting the zone with ease. That's why his zone exit stats are relevant and go along way to explaining why his shot suppression numbers are bad. He just doesn't excel in those areas, but that doesn't mean he's a terrible D-man. Seriously, stick him with a big, shot blocking top pairing D-man like a Big Buff, a Suter or a Weber and Fowler's numbers would improve because those situations in which he gets "trapped" won't happen.

 

[lindholmie]

Lol that graph ain't ****

good thing they redid the same chart for the playoffs and Fowler was still elite in those stats lmao youre obsessed

 

[eternalbedhead]

Anaheim doesn't get a Fowler-caliber player back, though they get plenty back in value. Morrow is a bit redundant considering our crowded blue-line but I'd definitely take it.

Boston gives up a lot. Too much, in fact, and most of this value oddly goes to Anaheim for Fowler than to Winnipeg for Trouba.

Winnipeg says no unless signing Trouba is out of the question, and then they probably would want a defenseman a little younger and with higher upside than Fowler. They downgrade from Trouba to Fowler, and add a good D prospect in Carlo, but this trade doesn't really do much for them. 2 halves aren't as good as a whole here.

 

[Paul4587]

Notice you didn't list the 5v5 points of these 2 players probably because troubas numbers were better. Yes he scores more on pp because trouba plays behind an elite player like buff. What makes lindholm better,its not 5v5 points. Its not fancy stats. Its not that he is harder to play against. Hes not a better skater . Doesnt have a better first pass. Doesnt stick up for his team mates and fight when someone cheap shots a teammate like trouba does. What exactly makes him better.

I would say Lindholm is as good of an all around skater as Trouba. I would also say he has a better first pass. Harder to play against as in physically? Maybe not but Lindholm is much better positionally and has a better stick.

Also re the PP - Lindholm too was stuck on the 2nd unit. He never saw time on the top unit despite fans wanting to see it. And his 5 on 5 production was remarkably low last year because the Ducks had an incredibly low shooting percentage when he was on the ice, he was incredibly unlucky. Had the Ducks converted on a normal amount of their chances he would have no doubt had a few more 5 on 5 assists.

 

[CaptainChef]

Anaheim doesn't get a Fowler-caliber player back, though they get plenty back in value. Morrow is a bit redundant considering our crowded blue-line but I'd definitely take it.

Boston gives up a lot. Too much, in fact, and most of this value oddly goes to Anaheim for Fowler than to Winnipeg for Trouba.

Winnipeg says no unless signing Trouba is out of the question, and then they probably would want a defenseman a little younger and with higher upside than Fowler. They downgrade from Trouba to Fowler, and add a good D prospect in Carlo, but this trade doesn't really do much for them. 2 halves aren't as good as a whole here.

Good assessment. Boston definitely gives up a lot but they are rather desperate for a good RHD. As structured, definitely a deal that favors Anaheim.

Morrow (not needed or wanted by Anaheim anyway) should be shifted to Wpg, and maybe Anaheim still needs to add a 2nd to make the deal happen

 

[JetsHomer]

good thing they redid the same chart for the playoffs and Fowler was still elite in those stats lmao youre obsessed

But that doesn't explain any of the critisisms about the nature of the data?

Also where did you find the data for the playoffs? Google doesn't show up anything. Please provide a source for your comments if they are legitimate

 

[wintersej]

IF (if if if if if if if if if) Trouba and WPG can't come to an agreement... and they most certainly will... but if they can't I don't see them doing better than Fowler+.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Notice you didn't list the 5v5 points of these 2 players probably because troubas numbers were better. Yes he scores more on pp because trouba plays behind an elite player like buff. What makes lindholm better,its not 5v5 points. Its not fancy stats. Its not that he is harder to play against. Hes not a better skater . Doesnt have a better first pass. Doesnt stick up for his team mates and fight when someone cheap shots a teammate like trouba does. What exactly makes him better.

I didn't list 5v5 points because it doesn't matter it is about overall production I don't like treating power play points as if they are worth less like some people do. I want my defenseman to produce more points and be better defensively and be better in the playoffs and Lindholm has that over Trouba.

I would say Lindholm is as good of an all around skater as Trouba. I would also say he has a better first pass. Harder to play against as in physically? Maybe not but Lindholm is much better positionally and has a better stick.

Also re the PP - Lindholm too was stuck on the 2nd unit. He never saw time on the top unit despite fans wanting to see it. And his 5 on 5 production was remarkably low last year because the Ducks had an incredibly low shooting percentage when he was on the ice, he was incredibly unlucky. Had the Ducks converted on a normal amount of their chances he would have no doubt had a few more 5 on 5 assists.

Lindholm got 15 power play points this past season helping our 2nd unit be more productive then it usually has been that is a positive in my book but some people would view in negatively because they care so much about 5on5 production as if that is all that is really important

 

[Hunter368]

IF (if if if if if if if if if) Trouba and WPG can't come to an agreement... and they most certainly will... but if they can't I don't see them doing better than Fowler+.

I get that be your opinion but from Jets POV I can't believe Chevy would ever settle that type of offer. IMO he could get a much better offer to fit our needs and situation. A Fowler+ return (assuming the plus you meant is small) could lead to Chevy being fired within the year.

No offence meant to Fowler, he's just a poor fit and return for Trouba.

 

[lindholmie]

But that doesn't explain any of the critisisms about the nature of the data?

Also where did you find the data for the playoffs? Google doesn't show up anything. Please provide a source for your comments if they are legitimate

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/best-defencemen-proficient-offence/

SHUT IT DOWN

 

[mytduxfan*]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/best-defencemen-proficient-offence/

SHUT IT DOWN

He's #1 on that chart.

 

[ecolad]

He's #1 on that chart.

Better be careful with the conclusions you draw from that chart !!

It doesn`t portray your man Lindholm in a particularly positive way ......either Exit% or Possession%.

Remember --the importance of viewing stats in an appropriate context.

 

[lindholmie]

Better be careful with the conclusions you draw from that chart !!

It doesn`t portray your man Lindholm in a particularly positive way ......either Exit% or Possession%.

Remember --the importance of viewing stats in an appropriate context.

you know that chart is for the best defenesemen? being on that list is great


these are the worst for comparison