Proposal: ANA-BOS-WPG three way trade

[Ducks in a row]

Your comment kind of proves my point. Go do comparisons. Analytics are your friend.

Hero charts Schultz > Fowler really hate those things makes people think they know how good or bad someone is without the need to watch them play something that every team pays scouts to do. Those advanced stats are not the end all be all to say who is better.

 

[lindholmie]

Your comment kind of proves my point. Go do comparisons. Analytics are your friend.

**** like this is so stupid. You realize those stats aren't individual stats? Look at fowlers individuals stats. Hes top 10 in the league at getting puck the out of the D zone and has one of the lowest turnover % in the league.

does anyone have that post where some guys reviewed games 5,6,7 and the goals where fowler was on the ice? This was the series where he averaged over 26+ mins against their top line. But none of those goals were his fault. But stat watchers only see Fowler was on the ice for a goals against and say he is ****.

Playing the toughest mins and still averaging 35 points per seasons and having a .5 PPG in the playoffs is great. Myers aint ****

 

[Ducks in a row]

**** like this is so stupid. You realize those stats aren't individual stats? Look at fowlers individuals stats. Hes top 10 in the league at getting puck the out of the D zone and has one of the lowest turnover % in the league.

does anyone have that post where some guys reviewed games 5,6,7 and the goals where fowler was on the ice? This was the series where he averaged over 26+ mins against their top line. But none of those goals were his fault. But stat watchers only see Fowler was on the ice for a goals against and say he is ****.

Playing the toughest mins and still averaging 35 points per seasons and having a .5 PPG in the playoffs is great. Myers aint ****

Yea the advanced stats people drive me nuts thinking they know how good someone is without needing to watch a player. If a teammate makes a bad turnover that leads to the other team getting offensive zone time and shot(s) it will effect negatively on their advanced stats even when it wasn't their fault. Advanced stats involve too many teammates and variables to be able to accurately judge a single player you always need to involve watching the player in the game and see what he does.

 

[Gump Hasek]

It's just his read on things. He says he knows how Kurt Overhardt operates and this is just his way of getting Trouba out without Trouba actually saying he wants out. Take it for what it is.

"What it is" are the words of a 73 year old man calling in from the retirement community, desperately seeking to stay relevant by offering his opinion on a situation that he has zero attachment to.

Both Overhardt and Cheveldayoff have agreed not to negotiate via the press. That leads to a vacuum of information where the words of people with no attachment to what is actually occurring are paid undeserved credit. No one knows what Trouba wants aside from those inside the negotiations; he actually has stated that he wants to play here though.

 

[Bristo]

It's almost like a bunch of you don't know how to read or ... I don't know, bargain?

The Jets are not looking to move Trouba, he's part of the long term plan. It would take a colossally stupid offer by another GM to get him moved. We Jets fans aren't saying we think Trouba and Lindholm are equal value, we're saying that we are bargaining from a stable position of strength. We don't have to give up Trouba for less than what we want, so we won't.

It has nothing to do with how much better or worse any of the players in this discussion are relative to any of the other ones, but some of you people can't get beyond X player vs Y player.

 

[Gump Hasek]

And so what if Morrissey is ready to graduate? Is he about to step into a Top 4 role? He's proven squat thus far. 3 years since his draft year for a 1st rounder and a grand total of 1 NHL game played. That's concerning. He might end up like Nathan Beaulieu, buried on the 3rd pair for years. And so what if the skill-sets are similar, puck-movement is the name of the game from the back-end now, or have you been paying attention.

And you say the Jets would happily keep Trouba, there is this small problem called they can't get him signed to a contract yet. So I guess that's not that happy is it?

Why is it concerning you that Morrissey isn't ready to fill a role in the top-4? He literally starred in the Calder Cup playoffs two seasons ago as a junior player playing against men. He was freakin' outstanding.
https://www.nhl.com/news/morrisseys-season-long-odyssey-nears-end-in-ahl/c-722616

The Jets are just trying to season most of their players in the minors, akin to DRW. Last season he played well in his first pro season, and would have seen more NHL games but suffered a late-season leg injury. And by the way, puck movement is his strength. Have you ever even seen him play? LOL

Finally, so what if Trouba is unsigned as of yet? So are plenty of other RFAs. That also doesn't mean he won't eventually be signed by the Jets.

 

[mytduxfan*]

"What it is" are the words of a 73 year old man calling in from the retirement community, desperately seeking to stay relevant by offering his opinion on a situation that he has zero attachment to.

This insinuates that Watters is just saying "Trouba wants out" as part of some sort of PR stunt. I disagree with that. It's just his opinion and I'm sure he believes it. Whether he's right or not is another question.

Both Overhardt and Cheveldayoff have agreed not to negotiate via the press. That leads to a vacuum of information where the words of people with no attachment to what is actually occurring are paid undeserved credit. No one knows what Trouba wants aside from those inside the negotiations; he actually has stated that he wants to play here though.

Fair enough. Same goes for Lindholm I guess.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

to Anaheim:

Ryan Spooner - C/LW
Joe Morrow - D
Malcolm Subban - G
Boston 2018 1st round pick

to Winnipeg:

Cam Fowler - D
Brandon Carlo - D

to Boston:

rights to Jacob Trouba


From everything I've read, Anaheim wants someone to play the left side in exchange for Fowler. Spooner is a young player that is more center, but has been transitioned to the left side in Boston for multiple spells. He's a young talented offensive player that is on a cheap contract this year, and still under team control next year. HF says that Anaheim's depth in net isn't deep, so Subban gives them another chip. Morrow is for depth, and they also get a 1st round pick, which if Boston doesn't improve has been in the mid-range the last two years.

Winnipeg fans have said they want a top end left-handed defender in exchange for Trouba. Fowler is just that. I've seen some debate about Fowler vs. Trouba; and most seem to agree Trouba is better. Bruins add a top defensive prospect in Carlo to balance it out; HF also says that Winnipeg doesn't have any high end defensive prospects, so there you go.

Boston gives up the most, but gets what they need the most. A top end right handed defenseman that can pair with Torey Krug and be the front end of their prospect pool in the years to come.

Flame away!

boston gives up
spooner... in theory a top 6 center
a potential lottery pick
a dman prospect they are very high on
a goalie that projects to be a starter
and a dman that 3 organizations have all prized in trades...

for

trouba?

that makes sense to you? it sounds like trades that have happened before?

if winnipeg CANT sign trouba... his value goes down, not up... and he never had 5 player value to begin with.

other than gretzky and lindros has any player ever been dealt for 5 guys? and even gretzky had a couple throw ins

 

[JetsHomer]

My favourite part about all these threads is people saying 'you have to watch a player play, if you don't how can you judge them? Oh and btw Trouba sucks and I know this but I cant give one reason for it cause I don't watch him play'

 

[Ducksgo*]

If the Jets are getting Fowler, then it's Myers, not Trouba, that's going the other way. If Trouba is moved in a deal with Anaheim, Lindholm better be coming back.

Do we really need to say that in a dozen threads?

Absolutely no way Trouba And Lindholm are being compared here. You might want to retract your statement before looking foolish comparing the two defenseman.

Lindholm>>Trouba by a huge margin

 

[ffh]

Not using advanced stats or anything how is lindholm better than trouba. 5v5 trouba outscores him much harder to play against why is lindholm better

 

[Bristo]

Absolutely no way Trouba And Lindholm are being compared here. You might want to retract your statement before looking foolish comparing the two defenseman.

Lindholm>>Trouba by a huge margin

Thank you for so perfectly providing an example of exactly what I was talking about.

 

[lomiller1]

Yea the advanced stats people ...

Just to be clear the metrics the graph presents are not comprehensively tracked anywhere in the public domain. Some NHL teams may track them league wide but these are not publicly available. Where or how the numbers in it were gathered, what teams were observed and how many games they were observed for is a complete unknown, so I doubt many "advanced stats people" give it much weight.

 

[robbieboy3686]

As a ducks fan I take this and run

 

[Hunter368]

All values aside, b/c is where the conversations always go south regardless of what teams or players being discussed.

Lindholm is a high need for the Ducks and wouldn't be traded.

Jets wouldn't trade Trouba for two years of Fowler, regardless what your personal opinion is on values of each.

Can Ducks & Jets fans agree there is no trade between the two teams involving Trouba that both teams would be happy with and any third party fan who makes such a trade thread should be tarred & feathered by both fan bases?

Tired of the same endless circular conversations, can't even bother posting or reading them anymore.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Not using advanced stats or anything how is lindholm better than trouba. 5v5 trouba outscores him much harder to play against why is lindholm better

Lindholm vs. Trouba
2013-14 78 games 6 goals 24 assists 30 points +29 vs. 65 games 10 goals 19 assists 29 points +4
2014-15 78 games 7 goals 27 assists 34 points +25 vs. 65 games 7 goals 15 assists 22 points +2
2015-16 80 games 10 goals 18 assists 28 points +7 vs. 81 games 6 goals 15 assists 21 points +10
Games 236 vs. 211
Goals 23 vs. 23
Assists 69 vs. 49
Points 92 vs. 72
+/- 61 vs. 16

Rookie season favored Trouba with points per game average but each passing year he has produced less. The past two seasons Lindholm has been the better defenseman during the season.

2015 playoffs (Ducks vs. Jets)
Lindholm vs. Trouba
4 games 0 goals 3 assists +1 vs. 4 games 0 goals 2 assists -2

Currently Lindholm > Trouba

 

[mytduxfan*]

My favourite part about all these threads is people saying 'you have to watch a player play, if you don't how can you judge them? Oh and btw Trouba sucks and I know this but I cant give one reason for it cause I don't watch him play'

My favourite part is that you don't get what I've been doing this whole time. I don't actually think Trouba sucks because I've actually watched him play quite a bit for the past 3 seasons and it's quite apparent that his possession stats don't tell the whole story. I'm just using the exact same backward logic you (and some NYR fans) use to slate Fowler to slate Trouba i.e. looking at a Warrior chart and going from there.

Btw, the irony in your post is too much. You slate Fowler for having poor possession stats and then can't give me one single reason for it that isn't related to some number off a sheet because you never watch him play. Just out of curosity, what is it about Fowler's game that makes him such a bad D-man? I'm looking for specifics here.

Only a idiot says Trouba sucks he is a good young defenseman as is Fowler but Fowler gets trashed so much because he is worse then Schultz because advanced stats told me so

See, this guy gets it. Anyone who believes Schultz is better then Fowler because of a ****ing chart should be banned from this forum.

 

[SPV]

boston gives up
spooner... in theory a top 6 center
a potential lottery pick
a dman prospect they are very high on
a goalie that projects to be a starter
and a dman that 3 organizations have all prized in trades...

for

trouba?

that makes sense to you? it sounds like trades that have happened before?

if winnipeg CANT sign trouba... his value goes down, not up... and he never had 5 player value to begin with.

other than gretzky and lindros has any player ever been dealt for 5 guys? and even gretzky had a couple throw ins

Opinions vary, but there is a better chance that Morrow & Subban are busts than that they are ever going to contribute in the NHL. The Bruins have been drafting in the middle of the first round, I'm betting that they are better, so I think the pick will be worse in 2018 (trading picks is a gamble though, so that could backfire).

I think a few Anaheim fans have said they have no interest in either of them; so the trade would probably be of the same value to them without them.

 

[JetsHomer]

Lindholm > Trouba > Fowler = Myers imo

 

[JetsHomer]

My favourite part is that you don't get what I've been doing this whole time. I don't actually think Trouba sucks because I've actually watched him play quite a bit for the past 3 seasons and it's quite apparent that his possession stats don't tell the whole story. I'm just using the exact same backward logic you (and some NYR fans) use to slate Fowler to slate Trouba i.e. looking at a Warrior chart and going from there.

Btw, the irony in your post is too much. You slate Fowler for having poor possession stats and then can't give me one single reason for it that isn't related to some number off a sheet because you never watch him play. Just out of curosity, what is it about Fowler's game that makes him such a bad D-man? I'm looking for specifics here.



See, this guy gets it. Anyone who believes Schultz is better then Fowler because of a ****ing chart should be banned from this forum.

My problem with Fowler is his play away from the puck, lack of physicality and weak board play lead to him getting trapped in his zone often with difficulty breaking up the cycle. Give him the puck and he's amazing, but away from the puck his play is too soft to make him an effective defensive player.

He reminds me of Myers, I have pretty much the exact same concerns with Myers' game as I do with Fowler's

 

[Hunter368]

Call me when both Lindholm and Trouba sign contracts (or are traded) or TC starts with one or both are still unsigned.......until that happens its a whole lot of wasted time, speculation, no facts, circular discussions........I'm out, better things to do like play catch with my kids.

Cheers all.....don't kill each other

Please read, sums up my views:

http://lastwordonsports.com/2016/08/25/jacob-trouba-contract-negotiations/

 

[b in vancouver]

I like Trouba... like Fowler also... but Boston is giving up

a 1st rounder
two recent 1st round picks - both Subban (goalies take a little while) and Morrow (the jury's still out whether he can put it together). Neither is setting the world aflame but both should be NHLers this year.
two recent 2nd rounders - Spooner who could probably handle second line duties on a lot of teams and Carlo who had a very solid +1 year.

Throw in development years and those four players plus pick are much more valuable than a top-end offer-sheet (4 1st) would cost you.

For Trouba?

Never mind that most of that goes to Anaheim.

 

[ffh]

Lindholm vs. Trouba
2013-14 78 games 6 goals 24 assists 30 points +29 vs. 65 games 10 goals 19 assists 29 points +4
2014-15 78 games 7 goals 27 assists 34 points +25 vs. 65 games 7 goals 15 assists 22 points +2
2015-16 80 games 10 goals 18 assists 28 points +7 vs. 81 games 6 goals 15 assists 21 points +10
Games 236 vs. 211
Goals 23 vs. 23
Assists 69 vs. 49
Points 92 vs. 72
+/- 61 vs. 16

Rookie season favored Trouba with points per game average but each passing year he has produced less. The past two seasons Lindholm has been the better defenseman during the season.

2015 playoffs (Ducks vs. Jets)
Lindholm vs. Trouba
4 games 0 goals 3 assists +1 vs. 4 games 0 goals 2 assists -2

Currently Lindholm > Trouba

Notice you didn't list the 5v5 points of these 2 players probably because troubas numbers were better. Yes he scores more on pp because trouba plays behind an elite player like buff. What makes lindholm better,its not 5v5 points. Its not fancy stats. Its not that he is harder to play against. Hes not a better skater . Doesnt have a better first pass. Doesnt stick up for his team mates and fight when someone cheap shots a teammate like trouba does. What exactly makes him better.

 

[lindholmie]

Lindholm > Trouba > Fowler = Myers imo

lol myers aint ****

**** like this is so stupid. You realize those stats aren't individual stats? Look at fowlers individuals stats. Hes top 10 in the league at getting puck the out of the D zone and has one of the lowest turnover % in the league.

does anyone have that post where some guys reviewed games 5,6,7 and the goals where fowler was on the ice? This was the series where he averaged over 26+ mins against their top line. But none of those goals were his fault. But stat watchers only see Fowler was on the ice for a goals against and say he is ****.

Playing the toughest mins and still averaging 35 points per seasons and having a .5 PPG in the playoffs is great. Myers aint ****

 

[LeapOnOver]

I'd say the proposal wasn't bad, but certainly not enough for Winnipeg. I think Boston and Anaheim would both be great with the trade, Winnipeg (starting to act like Edmonton fans suddenly and the tight Chevaldayoff) won't give approval. Anyway, three ways are hard to come up with and this one really wasn't bad. A lot of thought and consideration, nice job.