Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[tbcwpg]

Barron just spent his first full year in the NHL. Some guys do develop later. Not saying he is going to be like say a Barbeshev there is the possibility he produces at a higher rate moving forward.

Production isn't the end all be all. Snerg just needs to be more like a solid puck mover then a point producer. Thought he really developed in that respect last season and he has something you can't teach and that is size. Something that seems to be more and more important on the back end. I think he likely reaches 20 points next year and solidifies his place in the top 4.

Trading Helly and Scheif for futures does nothing for this team right now. Unless you are making hockey moves. LIke Helly for Nemec and Scheif for Swayman then you hope those guys live up to expectations.

Trading them for late 1sts and prospects right now makes us worse and sends a poor message.

Correct me if I am wrong have we ever let a significant player leave for nothing? Was it just Wheeler?

Depends on how you define "significant". If we remove players that left abruptly due to injury/retirement, I can only think of maybe Tyler Myers if you consider him a bigger part of the 2018 run. Paul Stastny last summer.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Depends on how you define "significant". If we remove players that left abruptly due to injury/retirement, I can only think of maybe Tyler Myers if you consider him a bigger part of the 2018 run. Paul Stastny last summer.

Not sure if I consider any of them significant. I guess Trouba but we did trade him. Buff retired. Little retired. Traded Ladd,Kane,Trouba,Bogo,Laine,Copp and PLD. Bought out Wheeler. Let Myers,Stats, Pavelec and Perreault walk,

 

[WolfHouse]

Not sure if I consider any of them significant. I guess Trouba but we did trade him. Buff retired. Little retired. Traded Ladd,Kane,Trouba,Bogo,Laine,Copp and PLD. Bought out Wheeler. Let Myers,Stats, Pavelec and Perreault walk,

Poor Ben Chiarot... no respect.

 

[Weezeric]

The 2022-23 Jets suffered significant injuries.

Our top 3 scorers at 5v5 were Ehlers, Nino and Perfetti. They played 45, 22 and 51 games respectively. If they play 82 next year, I expect they will all have career highs in points.

Not to mention their Norris candidate defenceman only lasted one game in the playoffs. A game the Jets dominated.

 

[GeorgeJETson]

Poor Ben Chiarot... no respect.

 

[KingBogo]

Don't disagree. But the players are not the ones who should be making this decision.

How will those same players feel a year from now when that 1C and Vezina goalie are gone for nothing? Jets will be in rebuild mode then, like it or not.

This issue is not about how those players feel today, or opening day. It is about how they are going to feel when it is time for them to sign their extensions.

I think the players are fine with hockey trades that bring in now players and understand that is part of the game. I don’t think the care much about draft picks and prospects. Most of the current players will never play with whoever gets drafted next season. We only have 6 players left from the 2018 conference final run and that was only 5 years ago. And 2 of those are on the edge of walking out the door. That will be a 80%+ turnover in 5 years.

 

[WolfHouse]

View attachment 731751

Its rough out there I tell ya, its tough...
Guys will take shots at ya, they get right up in your face and want to fight
... and that's just the Captain of my team

 

[AlaskaJet]

Its rough out there I tell ya, its tough...
Guys will take shots at ya, they get right up in your face and want to fight
... and that's just the Captain of my team

“Damn straight it’s tough out there!”

 

[bustamente]

I don't care what people are saying today but if Scheifele and Helle have anything close to the seasons they have had in the past and the Jets can not trade or extend them and they leave with the Jets getting nothing in return everyone and I mean everyone will be screaming from the highest roof top at what a poorly run organization the Jets are. I don't care if its a late round pick for both of them they can be used as sweeteners for future trades to help this team. Players the Jets have let walk in the past are nowhere near the players these two are atm.

 

[KingBogo]

I don't care what people are saying today but if Scheifele and Helle have anything close to the seasons they have had in the past and the Jets can not trade or extend them and they leave with the Jets getting nothing in return everyone and I mean everyone will be screaming from the highest roof top at what a poorly run organization the Jets are. I don't care if its a late round pick for both of them they can be used as sweeteners for future trades to help this team. Players the Jets have let walk in the past are nowhere near the players these two are atm.

I’ve always maintained that Chevy needs to make his decisions in the off season. You either trade now or re-sign now. Once the season starts too many other variables come into play. Once you playing games your focus is on winning each and every night and if you pull the plug on that there repercussions on many levels.

 

[bustamente]

I’ve always maintained that Chevy needs to make his decisions in the off season. You either trade now or re-sign now. Once the season starts too many other variables come into play. Once you playing games your focus is on winning each and every night and if you pull the plug on that there repercussions on many levels.

Training camp starts in roughly 2 months so he has time to do either, agreed once the season starts it gets harder to make the trade especially if the team is competitive.

 

[DRW204]

I admire the stamina folks on here have to discuss rebuild or not for ages

 

[Whileee]

I can't believe that Whileee. I was watching. There were stretches in that 2nd half where they were absolutely pathetic. Painful to watch. I thought the scores flattered them quite often, even in losses.

I'm not arguing against advanced statistical analysis or your ability to work with the stats. But I suspect that some of them fail to either predict or describe actual play. They need to be validated by comparison to a large set of actual results. It is the scores of the games that actually count.

I'm at a point where my age colours my view point. Seriously, I don't have a lot of time to wait for a winner. I don't want to wait for a rebuild. If it is not a very fast one, I won't live to see it bear fruit. I much prefer extending both Helle and Scheifele. If not, then good hockey trades. But if not that, I want to get the best value possible for them. One and done doesn't do it for me, even though the chances of that one being my last one are pretty high. I am in good health which means I might get 3-4-5 even 6 more seasons, but the odds drop pretty sharply each year. It is not unlike that 5 year contract Wheeler was just bought out from. My 5 year contract may be bought out too - at any time.

I had a contrary viewpoint at the time, though I wasn't posting here to share it.

Briefly...

The Jets slump coincided with both an uncharacteristic cratering of goaltending and a shooting slump. So, in a number of those games they ended up going down quickly with two or three soft goals against, and then couldn't mount a comeback. There is nothing that looks worse than a team that's playing from behind and can't finish. But in many of those games, the Jets were actually matching or beating teams in shot attempts and danger, but losing (often disheartening losses).

Here is a graphical representation of the Jets shooting / goaltending deficit game-by-game over the season. What is obvious to me is that in the first 40-50 games, the Jets very often had the advantage in terms of save % or were quite close to opponents, but during that awful stretch the Jets were regularly on the losing end of the shooting/saving percentages, often caved in substantially. (Note: segments of the lines inside the red "0" line represent games where the Jets had a save% deficit, and vice-versa).

 

[Whileee]

How many points did they score in the first 41 games compared to the last 41 games?

I'll let you go and get the data for that...

If shooting and saving aren't important factors in winning and losing games, why does anyone care if the Jets have a good goalie and good shooters?

In any case, I suppose people's ideas are pretty fixed about what happened last season, so I'll not bother to generate any more data / analyses.

 

[KingBogo]

I'll let you go and get the data for that...

If shooting and saving aren't important factors in winning and losing games, why does anyone care if the Jets have a good goalie and good shooters?

In any case, I suppose people's ideas are pretty fixed about what happened last season, so I'll not bother to generate any more data / analyses.

I wouldn't say everyone's ideas are fixed. Narratives gain steam and keep going despite counter evidence. I for one really appreciate that you share factual information over the almost endless speculation and ingrained positions.

 

[Bob E]

I'll let you go and get the data for that...

If shooting and saving aren't important factors in winning and losing games, why does anyone care if the Jets have a good goalie and good shooters?

In any case, I suppose people's ideas are pretty fixed about what happened last season, so I'll not bother to generate any more data / analyses.

I for one enjoy what you do and bring to the discussion.

That chart just shows how poor the Jets were during that 20 game stretch with shots and saves for. That data is telling, but doesn't explain the root cause of that. That is what Bowness and company needs to determine. I don't recall a significant injury during that time other than Perfetti and Dubois apparently ailing but playing. Maybe there were more injuries being played through.

But i can't help but think there was some deployment issues too, like Pionk getting far too much ice when struggling badly.

I think the additions of Vilardi, Iafallo, Nino and Names (for a full year) over the Wheelers, Dubois and Stenlund will only help us in the long run. The trick will be not losing too much on the shot and save meter with the departures of Scheifele and Helle.

 

[Whileee]

I for one enjoy what you do and bring to the discussion.

That chart just shows how poor the Jets were during that 20 game stretch with shots and saves for. That data is telling, but doesn't explain the root cause of that. That is what Bowness and company needs to determine. I don't recall a significant injury during that time other than Perfetti and Dubois apparently ailing but playing. Maybe there were more injuries being played through.

But i can't help but think there was some deployment issues too, like Pionk getting far too much ice when struggling badly.

I think the additions of Vilardi, Iafallo, Nino and Names (for a full year) over the Wheelers, Dubois and Stenlund will only help us in the long run. The trick will be not losing too much on the shot and save meter with the departures of Scheifele and Helle.

Poor saving was due to inconsistent goaltending by both Hellebuyck and Rittich during that stretch. We all saw them let in weak goals, often early in games.

We also saw the shooters go cold. They were still getting shot attempts, but we're missing or getting stoned. That's why Ehlers and Connor both had shooting percentages about 25-30% below career averages last year, with very low shooting percentages during the slump. PLD also had.very low shooting % during the slump. Only Scheifele maintained shooting% during that stretch, ironically.

 

[Weezeric]

I had a contrary viewpoint at the time, though I wasn't posting here to share it.

Briefly...

The Jets slump coincided with both an uncharacteristic cratering of goaltending and a shooting slump. So, in a number of those games they ended up going down quickly with two or three soft goals against, and then couldn't mount a comeback. There is nothing that looks worse than a team that's playing from behind and can't finish. But in many of those games, the Jets were actually matching or beating teams in shot attempts and danger, but losing (often disheartening losses).

Here is a graphical representation of the Jets shooting / goaltending deficit game-by-game over the season. What is obvious to me is that in the first 40-50 games, the Jets very often had the advantage in terms of save % or were quite close to opponents, but during that awful stretch the Jets were regularly on the losing end of the shooting/saving percentages, often caved in substantially. (Note: segments of the lines inside the red "0" line represent games where the Jets had a save% deficit, and vice-versa).

View attachment 731793

This is a beautiful graph

 

[WolfHouse]

I enjoy stats - you can see that the Jets tanked after PLD partied in Montreal haha... that makes sense to me.

Its delusional to think the ONLY problem this team had was shooting percentage. In the last two months of the season, yes we outplayed teams... except in March/April, where the chart says we kicked ass.. we played playoff bound teams 11 times - our record was 5-6...

Played 9 games against teams that were actively tanking or had traded away players at the TD... our record was 6-3 against them

Yup our shooting percentage 'dried up' like that somehow happens in a vacuum... maybe it dried up because our 'best' players were not giving 100%?

Goaltending magically collapsed about the same time Scheif stopped playing Bowness' system. - I mean he came right out and said it... Once your 1C stops back checking, your D system collapses and high danger shots increase.

Plus minus is what it is but Scheif was -13 down that stretch while shooting at 16%...

The Jets were not 'snakebitten' - they overachieved while buying into Bowness defence first system, fell apart when other teams 'turned it on' and ended up as the just below .500 team this core has always been.

Shooting percentage is a symptom not the cause - statistics have a way of mixing those two things up.

Trade Scheif asap and let a team play Bowness system for a full season. Goaltending will not 'collapse'.

 

[Flair Hay]

I wouldn't say everyone's ideas are fixed. Narratives gain steam and keep going despite counter evidence. I for one really appreciate that you share factual information over the almost endless speculation and ingrained positions.

For sure guys. I'm much more on the trade them side of things. But that data is actually super insightful and believe me, it's made me rethink a few perceptions I had already.

Best part of the forums is getting to learn new stuff

 

[gojetsgo]

the "scheifele stopped playing bowness system" comments are the funniest on this forum...

 

[WolfHouse]

View attachment 731763
“Damn straight it’s tough out there!”

Winnipeg... man that's one tough city.
Go for take out and they might take you out.
Grab a mug or just get mugged - its 50-50, I tells ya.

But I like it, I like the city - my kind of place, people are real
So I tells my team, I love ya Winnipeg, I want to stay.
Nobody says that - even the geese can't wait to fly south

Then they drop me for a guy named Tony Potato
Tony Potato!!!
That's not even a real name.

 

[Jets 31]

the "scheifele stopped playing bowness system" comments are the funniest on this forum...

I have gotten very frustrated many times with Scheifele's play defensively but he's not the reason the Jets haven't taken the next step. The guy puts the puck in the net and every good team needs that. Put a good defensive forward with him and lets see how it goes. There are alot of good offensive players around the league that don't play good defense, Scheifele isn't alone there.

 

[macmaroon]

View attachment 731793

Sorry @Whileee, I must be old because the first thing that comes to my mind when I see this is it was made by my old spirograph...

 

[sipowicz]

So underachieving Chevy going into the 23-24 season minus Flake Wheezer and crybaby Dubois with a netminder and 1C who would rather be elsewhere, 3 top 6 forwards, a below average D on a hope and a prayer!