Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[bustamente]

The decision will only be easy if we are well out of the playoffs. If you sell at the TD while in a playoff position you are telling everyone else the plan is that your intention isn’t to even try to compete. The following year we will have most of our roster as pending free agents or a year away from being a free agent. Why would they think anything will be different the following year?

This franchise cannot let both Scheifele or Helle walk as free agents without getting something anything for them playoffs or no playoffs and this goes for anyone on the roster, sign an extension or goodbye. Barely making the playoffs and going out in the first round is not a good enough reason to keep them as self rentals and the remaining players if they are being honest with themselves should understand this.

 

[Stumbledore]

A couple? Who's the other one?

Me!

 

[KingBogo]

This franchise cannot let both Scheifele or Helle walk as free agents without getting something anything for them playoffs or no playoffs and this goes for anyone on the roster, sign an extension or goodbye. Barely making the playoffs and going out in the first round is not a good enough reason to keep them as self rentals and the remaining players if they are being honest with themselves should understand this.

The franchise also can’t push tickets at people all season and get people excited about the team and playoffs and bail? Who is going to buy tickets the following season? Also how many current players follow the path out? IMO Chevy has to pick a direction and go with it. You can’t try to win for 5 months and then stop trying to win the last month before the playoffs. Sure it can work out if we are super shitty and the choice is obvious. But happens if we are in 2nd place and fighting for the division?

 

[bustamente]

The franchise also can’t push tickets at people all season and get people excited about the team and playoffs and bail? Who is going to buy tickets the following season? Also how many current players follow the path out? IMO Chevy has to pick a direction and go with it. You can’t try to win for 5 months and then stop trying to win the last month before the playoffs. Sure it can work out if we are super shitty and the choice is obvious. But happens if we are in 2nd place and fighting for the division?

I know many wont like this but you trade them at the deadline it's better for the team going forward. Losing a 30-40 goal scores and a top 5 goalie for nothing hoping you will do something in the playoffs is a crippling franchise move. Of course this is all moot if either of them sign an extension and while I'm hopeful I don't see it happening.

 

[Flair Hay]

This franchise cannot let both Scheifele or Helle walk as free agents without getting something anything for them playoffs or no playoffs and this goes for anyone on the roster, sign an extension or goodbye. Barely making the playoffs and going out in the first round is not a good enough reason to keep them as self rentals and the remaining players if they are being honest with themselves should understand this.

Yeah I can be a team apologist at times as much as anyone, but this rationalizing keeping these guys if they aren't extended by the trade deadline is crazy.

Like sure, if we are top 5 in the NHL you can talk yourself into it...

But passing up two 1st round picks and multiple prospects and depth guys is a sure way to be in the basement for 5 years after

The franchise also can’t push tickets at people all season and get people excited about the team and playoffs and bail? Who is going to buy tickets the following season? Also how many current players follow the path out? IMO Chevy has to pick a direction and go with it. You can’t try to win for 5 months and then stop trying to win the last month before the playoffs. Sure it can work out if we are super shitty and the choice is obvious. But happens if we are in 2nd place and fighting for the division?

This short sighted thinking can get excused from time to time. But long term it's a sure fire way to stop yourself from ever being a great team

 

[KingBogo]

Yeah I can be a team apologist at times as much as anyone, but this rationalizing keeping these guys if they aren't extended by the trade deadline is crazy.

Like sure, if we are top 5 in the NHL you can talk yourself into it...

But passing up two 1st round picks and multiple prospects and depth guys is a sure way to be in the basement for 5 years after



This short sighted thinking can get excused from time to time. But long term it's a sure fire way to stop yourself from ever being a great team

Except pulling the rug out from underneath your fans is what is short sighted. Why buy tickets before the TDL? Just wait and see if this a year the team tries to win or not. Maybe get the odd discounted ticket on a Saturday night when it fits your schedule? Certainly not season tickets when you are paying premium for a Tuesday night in January. Chevy needs to avoid this because IMO once you go down the path of trying to win you have to stick with it.

 

[Atoyot]

I wonder if Chevy uses the captaincy as a bargaining chip for Scheifele to re-sign. Might be enticing for him.

 

[Flair Hay]

Except pulling the rug out from underneath your fans is what is short sighted. Why buy tickets before the TDL? Just wait and see if this a year the team tries to win or not. Maybe get the odd discounted ticket on a Saturday night when it fits your schedule? Certainly not season tickets when you are paying premium for a Tuesday night in January. Chevy needs to avoid this because IMO once you go down the path of trying to win you have to stick with it.

I couldn't disagree more but I see where you are coming from. I just think our fans are more invested in the long term success and vision towards building a NHL team than they are being part of the season to season fix. It's all a matter of opinion I suppose.

 

[JetsFan815]

I couldn't disagree more but I see where you are coming from. I just think our fans are more invested in the long term success and vision towards building a NHL team than they are being part of the season to season fix. It's all a matter of opinion I suppose.

Yeah to the fans you can sell re-signing Hell/Scheif to long term deals (even if many will disagree with the moves) as trying to "win with these guys".

You can sell trading them at the deadline as "The assets we get from these deals will help us get to our goal of being a contender. Look how good the assets from the Copp deal are looking, these trades give a shot of delivering more of that".

Atleast there is a clear plan there even with both these scenarios even if many disagree with the plan. But how do you sell letting them walk for nothing in the summer? Even if you get the emotional high of making the playoffs and even winning a few games, the fan confidence is going to be in the absolute pits in the summer when they walk for nothing.

 

[jgimp]

I wonder if Chevy uses the captaincy as a bargaining chip for Scheifele to re-sign. Might be enticing for him.

I hope not, he’s not even close to captain material. Lurch, JoMo or nobody as far as I’m concerned.

 

[10Ducky10]

The players should vote on their captains.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

But how do you sell letting them walk for nothing in the summer?

"Some of the greatest organizations in NHL history have allowed coveted players to walk as free agents. We are carrying on a proud tradition.

We also want to support our good friends at Sportsnet who would have little to do on July 1st if the only free agents were the dreck that we usually sign".

 

[KingBogo]

I couldn't disagree more but I see where you are coming from. I just think our fans are more invested in the long term success and vision towards building a NHL team than they are being part of the season to season fix. It's all a matter of opinion I suppose.

So should the organization then not be open about the plan and tell fans they will be trading away their top players at the TDL? If they are in a playoff spot and trade Helly at the TDL for a late first and prospect the ST will crater anyways the following season. A couple dozen HF Board posters will be happy. The family that dropped $10,000 on ST less so. Please explain to me why I should be a ST this season if this is the plan.

 

[Flair Hay]

So should the organization then not be open about the plan and tell fans they will be trading away their top players at the TDL? If they are in a playoff spot and trade Helly at the TDL for a late first and prospect the ST will crater anyways the following season. A couple dozen HF Board posters will be happy. The family that dropped $10,000 on ST less so. Please explain to me why I should be a ST this season if this is the plan.

I'm not saying we can't extend these guys. If you're a ST holder chances are you understand by trading guys that are leaving, you are doing what is in the best interest of the club.

What about yourself? What would you do if you were in Chevy's shoes?

 

[KingBogo]

I couldn't disagree more but I see where you are coming from. I just think our fans are more invested in the long term success and vision towards building a NHL team than they are being part of the season to season fix. It's all a matter of opinion I suppose.

So should the organization then not be open about the plan and tell fans they will be trading away their top players at the TDL? If they are in a playoff spot and trade Helly at the TDL for a late first and prospect the

I'm not saying we can't extend these guys. If you're a ST holder chances are you understand by trading guys that are leaving, you are doing what is in the best interest of the club.

What I think Chevy needs to do his pick his path now. You either trade them and start fresh this season or you try to win with them. TDL is for teams with no chance at the playoffs not for teams in playoff position. If we sell Helly and Scheifele at the TDL in a playoff position for late firsts and prospects which vet that can get out doesn’t jump as quickly as they can because what will be different the following seasons when Ehlers Connor come do?

 

[Flair Hay]

So should the organization then not be open about the plan and tell fans they will be trading away their top players at the TDL? If they are in a playoff spot and trade Helly at the TDL for a late first and prospect the

That's fair.

Suppose you're right. We should just trade them now for whatever we can get now? If we don't like the return, we are stuck losing them for nothing because our STH won't be happy?

If you ask me, letting these guys walk for nothing is going to piss off the fanbase way more than dealing them mid season. Our fans aren't idiots, they understand good organizational decision making.

 

[tbcwpg]

That's fair.

Suppose you're right. We should just trade them now for whatever we can get now? If we don't like the return, we are stuck losing them for nothing because our STH won't be happy?

If you ask me, letting these guys walk for nothing is going to piss off the fanbase way more than dealing them mid season. Our fans aren't idiots, they understand good organizational decision making.

They might understand moving them and good organizational decision making - are they going to spend money on STs on that team though?

 

[Flair Hay]

They might understand moving them and good organizational decision making - are they going to spend money on STs on that team though?

I can't even believe we are talking about this.

Who the heck cancelled their season tickets when Dubois was shipped out of town?

How did moving Copp turn out when we were fighting for a playoff spot?

If we can extend them, cool I get it.

If we can't, they aren't going to be here. So deal them for the best deal you can get. If that's in March instead of now, wait until March.

STH know that these are the moves we need to make it we are going to be successful long term.

If anything more people want Scheifele run out of town than are canceling season tickets if he's moved. Just one average man's opinion...

 

[KingBogo]

I couldn't disagree more but I see where you are coming from. I just think our fans are more invested in the long term success and vision towards building a NHL team than they are being part of the season to season fix. It's all a matter of opinion I suppose.

So should the organization then not be open about the plan and tell fans they will be trading away their top players at the TDL? If they are in a playoff spot and trade Helly at the TDL for a late first and prospect the

I'm not saying we can't extend these guys. If you're a ST holder chances are you understand by trading guys that are leaving, you are doing what is in the best interest of the club.

What I think Chevy needs to do his pick his path now. You either trade them and start fresh this season or you try to win with them. TDL is for teams

I can't even believe we are talking about this.

Who the heck cancelled their season tickets when Dubois was shipped out of town?

How did moving Copp turn out when we were fighting for a playoff spot?

If we can extend them, cool I get it.

If we can't, they aren't going to be here. So deal them for the best deal you can get. If that's in March instead of now, wait until March.

STH know that these are the moves we need to make it we are going to be successful long term.

If anything more people want Scheifele run out of town than are canceling season tickets if he's moved. Just one average man's opinion...

Then the organization should be up front and tell the ticket buyers their plans. If we can’t extend our UFAs by the TDL we will trade them for what we can get no matter our playoff position as believe letting UFAs walk for nothing would set us back too far in our attempt to build back a strong contending team capable of winning a cup. We know you are knowledgeable fans and will support us through this difficult but necessary process.

 

[Flair Hay]

So should the organization then not be open about the plan and tell fans they will be trading away their top players at the TDL? If they are in a playoff spot and trade Helly at the TDL for a late first and prospect the

I suppose. You wouldn't have any criticism from me. I'm not sure our fans need to logic behind this explained to them. But too much communication is never a bad thing.

I don't think we are in the position as a franchise that we can afford to pass up:

Two 1st round picks
Two or three decent prospects
Two or three 2nds/cap balance depth players

That's what we are looking at for those two guys.

 

[tbcwpg]

I can't even believe we are talking about this.

Who the heck cancelled their season tickets when Dubois was shipped out of town?

How did moving Copp turn out when we were fighting for a playoff spot?

If we can extend them, cool I get it.

If we can't, they aren't going to be here. So deal them for the best deal you can get. If that's in March instead of now, wait until March.

STH know that these are the moves we need to make it we are going to be successful long term.

If anything more people want Scheifele run out of town than are canceling season tickets if he's moved. Just one average man's opinion...

I think there's a difference between moving Copp at the deadline and even Dubois in the summer, and moving 55/37 mid-season.

The Jets were out of the playoffs when Copp was moved. I don't think anyone would blame the Jets if they move Hellebuyck and Scheifele at the deadline if they're out of a playoff spot.

We're also getting into the bigger picture question of will fans support a rebuild with their wallets. There is a feeling like this is the last go with Hellebuyck, especially. I think moving them at the deadline, if they team is in a playoff spot at the time, will have some pretty negative consequences both with the players here (good luck convincing RFAs like Vilardi to commit long term) and with the fans.

I know people like to say the fanbase is knowledgeable etc but I have to question that if so many want Scheifele run out of town.

The time to move them is this summer. If you're getting bad offers then why move them for its own sake, you might as well try to get a good season out of the team.

 

[bustamente]

I think you have to take a good run at extending Scheifele, 35-40 goal scorers warts and all don't grow on trees, Helle on the other hand wants to be on a contender preferably in the States, the Jets as constructed are not a contender so that ship has probably sailed. Losing them for nothing will do more harm to tickets sales the following year than moving them at the deadline.

 

[tbcwpg]

I think you have to take a good run at extending Scheifele, 35-40 goal scorers warts and all don't grow on trees, Helle on the other hand wants to be on a contender preferably in the States, the Jets as constructed are not a contender so that ship has probably sailed. Losing them for nothing will do more harm to tickets sales the following year than moving them at the deadline.

I think losing them, Hellebuyck especially, in general will hurt ticket sales whether he's moved now, mid-season or he just leaves in the summer.

To me, if the returns we're saying these players are worth were being offered, they would've been moved by now. Even close to the chest Chevy hasn't denied that they're available. You could just move them no matter what and get a mediocre DeBrincat like returns, or keep them as your own rental.

 

[Flair Hay]

I think losing them, Hellebuyck especially, in general will hurt ticket sales whether he's moved now, mid-season or he just leaves in the summer.

To me, if the returns we're saying these players are worth were being offered, they would've been moved by now. Even close to the chest Chevy hasn't denied that they're available. You could just move them no matter what and get a mediocre DeBrincat like returns, or keep them as your own rental.

Why are those the only two options?

The trade deadline is the best time to get a max return on pending UFA's

In the summer everyone is planning for the next 3 years.

In March, contenders are planning for the next 3 months.

 

[bustamente]

I think we were overly optimistic at what Helle would bring us, age and what he wants long term seems to be working against us trading him also lately SC winners don't seem to need a perceived top 3 goalie to win. Scheifele on the other hand at the deadline will have many suitors and the Jets should do very well, again my preference is to sign Scheifele but if he wants to move on we cant do anything about that.