Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[Jack7222]

Scheif feels like he'd be an ideal deadline acquisition for a contender. But it also feels like he's the more likely to actually want to sign.

I can't imagine getting good value for a goalie at the trade deadline? Seems like a weird time to bring one in.

 

[Flair Hay]

Scheif feels like he'd be an ideal deadline acquisition for a contender. But it also feels like he's the more likely to actually want to sign.

I can't imagine getting good value for a goalie at the trade deadline? Seems like a weird time to bring one in.

Agreed. Goalies and their defensemen can take a long time to truly develop that chemistry they need. It's not something you see very often, you're right.

 

[tbcwpg]

Why are those the only two options?

The trade deadline is the best time to get a max return on pending UFA's

In the summer everyone is planning for the next 3 years.

In March, contenders are planning for the next 3 months.

Again, I feel moving them at the deadline if the team is in the playoffs (bolding since I keep qualifying this and people are missing or ignoring it), would be more damaging to the franchise than the return.

 

[surixon]

Which playoff team sells off their good expiring players at the deadline?

I've seen very little evidence outside of St. Louis the year we got Stastny of teams doing this.

If the Jets go into the year with Mark and Conner and we perform really well, they are going ton stay on the roster as self rentals. Just like what 95% of other playoff teams do with self rentals.

 

[DRW204]

Yea you don't see new starting goalies often at the tdl. I think they realize it may take to get acclimated and gel with a new team so the on ice return possibly may not be as good as expected. Given how random or journeyman goalies can go on a heater and win you a cup (hill, Murray, Binnington... Kuemper to a lesser extent) I think is making the goalie market even trickier.

Also if you're a PO or cup bound team chances are you already have a good goaltending, or someone you're comfortable with. Korpisalo was the only starter moved at this past tdl IIRC.

Agreed. Goalies and their defensemen can take a long time to truly develop that chemistry they need. It's not something you see very often, you're right.

 

[Jack7222]

Yea you don't see new starting goalies often at the tdl. I think they realize it may take to get acclimated and gel with a new team so the on ice return possibly may not be as good as expected. Given how random or journeyman goalies can go on a heater and win you a cup (hill, Murray, Binnington... Kuemper to a lesser extent) I think is making the goalie market even trickier.

Also if you're a PO or cup bound team chances are you already have a good goaltending, or someone you're comfortable with. Korpisalo was the only starter moved at this past tdl IIRC.

This is the big one for me. Any team well above the playoff line and seeing themselves as a contender must have at least good enough goaltending to have gotten them to that point, so what kind of value are they getting from an unsigned Hellebuyck really? Unlike adding a goal scorer like Scheif which feels more like pure gravy in playoffs and super easy to integrate...

 

[Jetsfan79]

Wouldn't be surprised Jets coaching take a boom or bust approach to the season. Hard love ( to a certain degree) and some high risk strategy. High risk not in playing wreckless or outscoring problems. Moreso putting the hamner down in playing a team game. Bust ( team doesn't respond) and in your in a prime position to recoup assets at the deadline. Boom and you try hard to re-sign pending free agents. Including those you may aquire at the deadline. Coaching to tread water is the worst thing to do. Murky middle is a place the Jets do not want to be in this season.

 

[10Ducky10]

LA is a team I could see wanting Helle at the TD.

 

[Atoyot]

I hope not, he’s not even close to captain material. Lurch, JoMo or nobody as far as I’m concerned.

I'm not necessarily arguing for it, just wondering if it's something he might do. He's also been considered a top 3 captain candidate on the team for 8 years running.

 

[JetsFan815]

If the Jets go into the year with Mark and Conner and we perform really well, they are going ton stay on the roster as self rentals. Just like what 95% of other playoff teams do with self rentals.

This is what I am confused by- I see people here saying all the time about how "Chevy has the hardest job in the league, no one wants to sign here, this market is not like 95% of the other markets". If that is the case then why is it acceptable to act like 95% of other teams? Logic dictates that if you are in a situation that makes things more difficult for you than 90% of the population and you want to keep up with or beat the 90% of the said population then you cannot simply do the same as the 90% of the population and expect success.

It's like if you are genetically predisposed to alcholism and in the past have had bouts of alcholism. You can't just say oh well everyone else has a drink after work so I am going to do it too because everyone else does and it is considered normal.

I hope Chevy/Chipman are willing to take a longer view than set the franchise back multiple years for the sake of 2 games and 2-3 home playoff games. True leadership involves making difficult decisions. The people who are not going to come to games the rest of the season for 10-15 home games if 55/37 are traded are not going to come to watch the Jets next season anyways when 55 and 37 are not on the team so that point is completely moot. That is not the population you should be optimizing for. Or else you turn into the Canucks, a fanbase that has so little confidence left in the management that they can't sell tickets despite committing to being a playoff team every season.

 

[DRW204]

This is what I am confused by- I see people here saying all the time about how "Chevy has the hardest job in the league, no one wants to sign here, this market is not like 95% of the other markets". If that is the case then why is it acceptable to act like 95% of other teams? Logic dictates that if you are in a situation that makes things more difficult for you than 90% of the population and you want to keep up with or beat the 90% of the said population then you cannot simply do the same as the 90% of the population and expect success.

It's like if you are genetically predisposed to alcholism and in the past have had bouts of alcholism. You can't just say oh well everyone else has a drink after work so I am going to do it too because everyone else does and it is considered normal.

I hope Chevy/Chipman are willing to take a longer view than set the franchise back multiple years for the sake of 2 games and 2-3 home playoff games. True leadership involves making difficult decisions. The people who are not going to come to games the rest of the season for 10-15 home games if 55/37 are traded are not going to come to watch the Jets next season anyways when 55 and 37 are not on the team so that point is completely moot. That is not the population you should be optimizing for. Or else you turn into the Canucks, a fanbase that has so little confidence left in the management that they can't sell tickets despite committing to being a playoff team every season.

yeah to me it's paramount for the Jets to get returns for UFAs compared to other teams, especially their high valued ones.

the Jets apparently aren't a hot-bed for UFAs or w/ trades, and their draft/develop really isn't some unique differentiator..... so getting returns for players who are not gonna be here is essential vs losing them for nothing. some teams can get players easier so it may not be as crucial, however for the Jets as you said, they can't operate like those teams.

I think if Helle is on this team we are at least in the mix for the POs. Would Chevy/Jets go full Armstrong/STL when they traded Shattenkirk for a 1st while still in a PO spot (which eventually got them Schenn and a Stanley Cup)? .

 

[surixon]

This is what I am confused by- I see people here saying all the time about how "Chevy has the hardest job in the league, no one wants to sign here, this market is not like 95% of the other markets". If that is the case then why is it acceptable to act like 95% of other teams? Logic dictates that if you are in a situation that makes things more difficult for you than 90% of the population and you want to keep up with or beat the 90% of the said population then you cannot simply do the same as the 90% of the population and expect success.

It's like if you are genetically predisposed to alcholism and in the past have had bouts of alcholism. You can't just say oh well everyone else has a drink after work so I am going to do it too because everyone else does and it is considered normal.

I hope Chevy/Chipman are willing to take a longer view than set the franchise back multiple years for the sake of 2 games and 2-3 home playoff games. True leadership involves making difficult decisions. The people who are not going to come to games the rest of the season for 10-15 home games if 55/37 are traded are not going to come to watch the Jets next season anyways when 55 and 37 are not on the team so that point is completely moot. That is not the population you should be optimizing for. Or else you turn into the Canucks, a fanbase that has so little confidence left in the management that they can't sell tickets despite committing to being a playoff team every season.

I guess my view is that talent retention is just as important as acquisition. So to me the question is how do you balance retaining the talent you have vs. Acquiring new talent.

Retention goes beyond 55 and 37. How does this org convice Conner, JoMo etc to stay invested in the program? Beyond treating the players extremely well (which they do a great job of according to numerous players over the years) I think showing your committed to winning is the other main key.

I think Chevy would move both Mark and Helle if a team meets his ask. If that doesn't happen what is the opportunity cost of selling them in season for a 1st and B prospect vs. Showing the rest of the team that your trying to win.

You might bet a Copp type package or maybe you get what turned to be a dud type package I.e Ladd deal.

 

[Jet]

That's fair.

Suppose you're right. We should just trade them now for whatever we can get now? If we don't like the return, we are stuck losing them for nothing because our STH won't be happy?

If you ask me, letting these guys walk for nothing is going to piss off the fanbase way more than dealing them mid season. Our fans aren't idiots, they understand good organizational decision making.

Just because it's the established belief that you trade fa's instead of letting them walk its doesn't mean that it's always the right thing to do.

The Jets have gotten TONS of mileage and value out of both of those pics.

The hand wringing around here over Wheeler's contract and we're looking at potentially doing that x2?

Trading 2 players at the tdl of their ilk if the Jets are in a playoff spot is also ridiculous because once you get to the playoffs anything can happen. What if we're near the top of the conference, do we do it then?

There is a lot of logic to the 'own rental' philosophy, and, if they do walk that gives us a big chunk of cap space.

I could see one or both walking to ufa and I'm actually ok with it.

 

[MardyBum]

It would be an incredibly stupid decision to walk them to UFA.

They had their all in year last year, but they didn't go all in despite the contract status of their players. And the same people shrugging off walking Helle and Scheifele to UFA were whinging over a 1st being traded. But anything can happen in the playoffs??

Now you'll lose your 1C and top 5 goalie in the league for nothing?

Absolute Jarmo levels of idiocy.

 

[Whileee]

I guess my view is that talent retention is just as important as acquisition. So to me the question is how do you balance retaining the talent you have vs. Acquiring new talent.

Retention goes beyond 55 and 37. How does this org convice Conner, JoMo etc to stay invested in the program? Beyond treating the players extremely well (which they do a great job of according to numerous players over the years) I think showing your committed to winning is the other main key.

I think Chevy would move both Mark and Helle if a team meets his ask. If that doesn't happen what is the opportunity cost of selling them in season for a 1st and B prospect vs. Showing the rest of the team that your trying to win.

You might bet a Copp type package or maybe you get what turned to be a dud type package I.e Ladd deal.

This is a key point. Connor was clear that he doesn't want a rebuild. I'd bet Ehlers and any other players in the prime of their careers would want out of a team that was in full rebuild mode.

So, if the Jets go into a rebuild (by trading 55 and 37 for futures), the Jets would be looking at an exodus of Connor, Vilardi, Ehlers, etc. over the next few years. Now you have to deal with a protracted rebuild over a longer timeline, that could end up with a deep spiral for a franchise that is already a hard-sell.

That's why I think the Jets are trying to make hockey trades for Hellebuyck and Scheifele, rather than futures, as they did with PLD.

If the Jets do decide to fold the tent sometime this season and trade 55 and 37 for 1sts / prospects at the TDL, I could see them trying to rebound right away by moving picks at the draft to acquire roster talent right away, with lots of cap flexibility. That maneuver would fulfill one of my favourite "value" moves available in the NHL - acquire picks at the TDL when pick value is at its least, and trade picks at the draft when pick value is at its peak.

 

[Buffdog]

It would be an incredibly stupid decision to walk them to UFA.

They had their all in year last year, but they didn't go all in despite the contract status of their players. And the same people shrugging off walking Helle and Scheifele to UFA were whinging over a 1st being traded. But anything can happen in the playoffs??

Now you'll lose your 1C and top 5 goalie in the league for nothing?

Absolute Jarmo levels of idiocy.

It's tough to say that with absolute certainty unless you know what kind of return chevy has been offered in a trade for each of them

Like you said, we're talking about a #1 centre and a great goalie. Those aren't easy to come by. Having them for a season absolutely has value beyond asset management

Lots of folks were bemoaning chevy and his approach that has landed us in the "mushy middle" of mediocrity. If you want the Jets to be as good as possible next season, those guys are on the roster

At the end of the day, we're probably looking at late 1sts and a b prospect for both of them. There's a very good chance that most or all of the assets we get back in those trades will amount to nothing in the NHL anyway

 

[Flair Hay]

Which playoff team sells off their good expiring players at the deadline?

I've seen very little evidence outside of St. Louis the year we got Stastny doing this.

If the Jets go into the year with Mark and Conner and we perform really well, they are going tonstaybon the roster as self rentals. Just like what 95% other playoff teams do with self rentals.

How did it work out for St. Louis?))

Picks aren't just futures. They are currency for buying established players when they become available.

The last similar example of this would be CBJ keeping Bobrovsky and dealing a 1st for Duchene.

They won a round, and got back to the playoffs the next year as well. And slowly sunk once the value loss caught up to them.

This is a key point. Connor was clear that he doesn't want a rebuild. I'd bet Ehlers and any other players in the prime of their careers would want out of a team that was in full rebuild mode.

So, if the Jets go into a rebuild (by trading 55 and 37 for futures), the Jets would be looking at an exodus of Connor, Vilardi, Ehlers, etc. over the next few years. Now you have to deal with a protracted rebuild over a longer timeline, that could end up with a deep spiral for a franchise that is already a hard-sell.

That's why I think the Jets are trying to make hockey trades for Hellebuyck and Scheifele, rather than futures, as they did with PLD.

If the Jets do decide to fold the tent sometime this season and trade 55 and 37 for 1sts / prospects at the TDL, I could see them trying to rebound right away by moving picks at the draft to acquire roster talent right away, with lots of cap flexibility. That maneuver would fulfill one of my favourite "value" moves available in the NHL - acquire picks at the TDL when pick value is at its least, and trade picks at the draft when pick value is at its peak.

The last two paragraphs I completely agree with. Chevy is 100% looking to find a hockey trade.

The first part... the best way to ensure this team has to rebuild is letting two top players walk for nothing. As you alluded to, getting return for them at least gives us a chance to bring in other players.

Extending these guys is a different story. Being top 5 in the NHL is a different story. If neither of these is the case, these guys should still be moved

 

[bennylundholm]

So should the organization then not be open about the plan and tell fans they will be trading away their top players at the TDL? If they are in a playoff spot and trade Helly at the TDL for a late first and prospect the

I’ve never heard of a team proclaiming in the summer that they will be trading away their top players at the deadline.

 

[Flair Hay]

I’ve never heard of a team proclaiming in the summer that they will be trading away their top players at the deadline.

I'm less in favour of our team being f***ed in 2 years and I'm getting worried this is the minority opinion

 

[KingBogo]

I’ve never heard of a team proclaiming in the summer that they will be trading away their top players at the deadline.

Me neither that’s why I threw it out there that it is a ridiculous assumption that the Jets would do so if in a playoff position.

 

[Buffdog]

Not side where to drop this, but I'm curious about coaching moving forward. When they signed bones it was a 2 year deal, so he's going into his lame duck season. Do they jets have any interest in extending him? Does he have any interest in coaching beyond this season?

Who is the Jets next long term coach?

 

[surixon]

I'm less in favour of our team being f***ed in 2 years and I'm getting worried this is the minority opinion

We wouldn't be any less screwed in two years Dealing them at the deadline vs Not dealing them at the deadline. A late first round pick likely takes 4 years to contribute positively.

 

[MardyBum]

It's tough to say that with absolute certainty unless you know what kind of return chevy has been offered in a trade for each of them

Like you said, we're talking about a #1 centre and a great goalie. Those aren't easy to come by. Having them for a season absolutely has value beyond asset management

Lots of folks were bemoaning chevy and his approach that has landed us in the "mushy middle" of mediocrity. If you want the Jets to be as good as possible next season, those guys are on the roster

At the end of the day, we're probably looking at late 1sts and a b prospect for both of them. There's a very good chance that most or all of the assets we get back in those trades will amount to nothing in the NHL anyway

If it's a 1st and anything, take the deal.

I'm fairly confident in the Jets with Scheifele and Helle being a top team in the West. I think some of the people talking down the offense loss of PLD and Wheeler are ignoring the amount of pressure the new forwards will take off the defense. This team on paper is far better than last year as a complete team.

But you're also betting 1 year against the future. Does going out in the 1st round again as Scheifele and Helle walk for nothing convince anyone to stay as their deals come up? If they want money, keep them. If they want to win a cup? Trade them and throw all the money at Hellebuyck and go from there. If he wants out too? Bye Felicia.

 

[Jack7222]

Are we underrating the value of a year's worth of a great player, and overrating the value of a first round draft pick + prospect?

If it's so obvious and stupid to walk a player to free agency, why are so many other GM's willing to pay the first rounder + prospect price for them as rentals? Not to say GMs always make perfect decisions, but you'd think the value would be at least close to commensurate.

 

[surixon]

Not side where to drop this, but I'm curious about coaching moving forward. When they signed bones it was a 2 year deal, so he's going into his lame duck season. Do they jets have any interest in extending him? Does he have any interest in coaching beyond this season?

Who is the Jets next long term coach?

The team has an option for a third year. So they could pick that up. My thoughts are if Bones wants to come back they will pick it up. If Bones wants to retire which might be the case they will likely go with Arniel after. It's not what I'd do but that is how I see the org going about it.