Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

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If Helle and Scheifele both start the season with the Jets and let's face it sure looks like that will be the case, playoff or no playoffs they must be moved at the deadline. I don't want to hear what message it sends to the room losing both of them for nothing when they leave as free agents sends a worse message to the fans.
 
If Helle and Scheifele both start the season with the Jets and let's face it sure looks like that will be the case, playoff or no playoffs they must be moved at the deadline. I don't want to hear what message it sends to the room losing both of them for nothing when they leave as free agents sends a worse message to the fans.

Part of that message is "We're willing to give up the playoffs to be bad for 6+ years". I understand the hockey necessity for those kind of moves but the fanbase isn't lockstep in "We're willing to be bad for awhile".
 
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Part of that message is "We're willing to give up the playoffs to be bad for 6+ years". I understand the hockey necessity for those kind of moves but the fanbase isn't lockstep in "We're willing to be bad for awhile".
Its funny how we talk like the Jets have been a perennial contender in 2.0

If you include the qualifying round as 'playoffs' - the Jets have been 'bad' for six years out of the 12... and limped in their last three playoff appearances - I think a clear plan communicated to the fanbase sells tickets

That being said,... inflation has jacked gas and food prices, anyone renewing their mortgage is about to lose a lot of discretionary income... is there any better time to rebuild than now? Winnipeg fans can't afford current ticket prices

Good news for the Jets is that gambling revenue should be up in times of crisis and depression.
 
I'm not sure that word means what you think it does.
I've got a t-shirt for that...

20230719_045543.jpg
 
Its funny how we talk like the Jets have been a perennial contender in 2.0

If you include the qualifying round as 'playoffs' - the Jets have been 'bad' for six years out of the 12... and limped in their last three playoff appearances - I think a clear plan communicated to the fanbase sells tickets

That being said,... inflation has jacked gas and food prices, anyone renewing their mortgage is about to lose a lot of discretionary income... is there any better time to rebuild than now? Winnipeg fans can't afford current ticket prices

Good news for the Jets is that gambling revenue should be up in times of crisis and depression.

I think the attitude is different towards being bad now than when the team first got here.

When the Thrashers arrived, they had been pretty bad for awhile. Not only did we have NHL hockey again and could excuse some poor results, but also we didn't have to suffer through the slow decline of a team that's not playoff worthy but couldn't sell everyone off at once. Usually there is a 2 or 3 season period where a team that goes full rebuild or larger scale retooling, where they're playing out unmoveable deals and aging players.

Now, the city has been in the playoff mix for 6 or 7 seasons. How long is it going to be before that happens again?

A clear plan doesn't sell tickets. Playing entertaining hockey sells tickets.
 
I think the attitude is different towards being bad now than when the team first got here.

When the Thrashers arrived, they had been pretty bad for awhile. Not only did we have NHL hockey again and could excuse some poor results, but also we didn't have to suffer through the slow decline of a team that's not playoff worthy but couldn't sell everyone off at once. Usually there is a 2 or 3 season period where a team that goes full rebuild or larger scale retooling, where they're playing out unmoveable deals and aging players.

Now, the city has been in the playoff mix for 6 or 7 seasons. How long is it going to be before that happens again?

A clear plan doesn't sell tickets. Playing entertaining hockey sells tickets.
Tuesday free beer sells tickets... whether TNSE likes it or not, everyone in Winnipeg knows you can get a ticket to any Jet game and cheaper than season tickets... doesn't matter what the team is doing on the ice
 
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I don't see either Ehlers or the org wanting to continue the relationship after next year. Ehlers hasn't been used correctly and the org isn't going to want to pay Fly what he's likely worth.

I don't agree with either of those statements. I think he has been used well, and I think the org will offer him a good contract with a bit of a raise that he deserves. I could see Ehlers betting on himself to finally stay healthy and have a career year going into UFA, but also for someone with such injury history he might want the safety of signing long term ASAP
 
Tuesday free beer sells tickets... whether TNSE likes it or not, everyone in Winnipeg knows you can get a ticket to any Jet game and cheaper than season tickets... doesn't matter what the team is doing on the ice

Not really related to what I'm saying. A good team would mean those tickets sell more easily. Prior to COVID it was more difficult, or at least more expensive.

I don't have a philosophical problem with rebuilds but I think it's something a team should only do as a last resort after exhausting any other way to make the team a winner. I'm not sure we're 100% at that point right now.
 
I would like to see the NHL adopt the NFL plan of awarding compensatory picks to the teams that lose top players to FA. Small market teams are really getting shafted and can't get a good return because of the NTC.
NHL BoG will be like... hmm we recognize Canadian revenue has supported this league for many years and we have bailed out several southern states franchises repeatedly... and most UFAs are leaving Canadian cities... but yeah, no.
 
Not really related to what I'm saying. A good team would mean those tickets sell more easily. Prior to COVID it was more difficult, or at least more expensive.

I don't have a philosophical problem with rebuilds but I think it's something a team should only do as a last resort after exhausting any other way to make the team a winner. I'm not sure we're 100% at that point right now.

Rebuild is a tough word because I think it captures allot of geography.

Just so I seek to understand what do you think the Jets best current path forward would be and why? You have probably stated it somewhere in the posts but a quick recap would be appreciated by me.
 
Rebuild is a tough word because I think it captures allot of geography.

Just so I seek to understand what do you think the Jets best current path forward would be and why? You have probably stated it somewhere in the posts but a quick recap would be appreciated by me.

I'm not totally sure, to be honest. I try to look at it through looking at recent history, the market here, etc. I'm probably just going to ramble a bit but there should be some coherent thoughts in it.

I think rebuilding solely through the draft is difficult. There are so many factors involved and you're not going to fill in gaps with FAs or impact players with some experience due to NTCs. Also, with a market like Winnipeg, you also have the increased risk factor of a prospect you've developed saying he doesn't want to stay long term. That can throw a wrench into things.

One could argue that the team as constructed now was largely built through the draft and you'd have a partial point. The D is all trades except Samberg and Morrissey. The team has had some partial success being competitive but I'd argue if it weren't for Hellebuyck the team as constructed with even an average goalie would not have had the success it did.

You could argue that you could make trades for younger players without NTCs that could step in right away and help, and again, partially true, but teams lately seem very reluctant to ship out players like that where the team has control for 3+ years. I think getting what they got for Dubois was a minor miracle.

There's also the business side. I don't care how many people on here say it, until I see evidence otherwise, I'm not convinced in the slightest that a rebuild is actually better for ticket sales. Bad teams don't sell, whether the team has been up front with saying "We're rebuilding" or not. Chicago blatantly tanked and their nightly average attendance was the worst it had been since 2007-08. Attendance in Buffalo was under 10k for 2021-22. The team was decent last year and suddenly that jumps 6k a night. Winnipeg is already seen as a small outlier market in the league, just the optics alone are bad if attendance drips thanks to Bettman's "it has to sell out each night" stuff when the team came back, even if that's not totally true.

I bring up rebuild as tanking because I think the successful teams are more often than not built on the back of a superstar player. Crosby/Malkin/Letang/Fleury. Kopitar/Doughty. Ovechkin. Stamkos/Kucherov/Hedman/Vasilevsky. McDavid/Draisaitl. Matthews/Marner/Reilly. MacKinnon. These teams that have had strong levels of success, be it regular season dominance or playoff success, have had one or more very high draft pick lead the charge. There are some exceptions of course but I don't think Winnipeg fits that mold (eg Vegas, Boston). I think we'll see Chicago have that with Bedard. Players will line up to play with top end talent. Winnipeg has a superstar but unfortunately it's in a position where there's no offensive impact at all.

I think the team will be forced into a rebuild eventually but because I think it's going to be long and ultimately have a small chance of actual success in my view, the team should avoid doing that as much as they possibly can until they absolutely cannot avoid it. I think a small market team voluntarily going into that kind of tank job is suicide. I think trying to get NHL ready players for assets that aren't wanting to stay is going to make your team worse, or at best, stay at a similar level.
 
Mac, your closet must be huge! You have so many t-shirts, dude.
Yeah, I joke around that I could wear a different t-shirt a day for two years and not have to do any laundry. It's not much of a stretch as I have an entire room just for my t-shirts and I lost count at about 600. I seriously need to downsize...:sarcasm:
 
I think you can sell the fanbase on another - 'we're a young team' phase and a modest rebuild
My best case scenario for this season
Scheif traded at deadline or sooner
Helle extended or traded at deadline
Dillon traded at deadline
Nino extended or traded

Last third of the season
Connor-Vilardi-Perfetti
Ehlers-Barron-Nino
Iafallo-Lowry-Apples
Gus-Names-Kupari

Jomo-Samberg
Chisholm-Pionk
Heinola-DeMelo
Schmidt

Bross-?

Sit either Schmidt or Gus
Get Barron, Perfetti, Vilardi tons of draws through the season and see who seizes the moment
Call up Lambert for the last 7 games
Get a nice return for Scheif and Helle - get a higher pick this year and be back in the playoffs next year
 
I think you can sell the fanbase on another - 'we're a young team' phase and a modest rebuild
My best case scenario for this season
Scheif traded at deadline or sooner
Helle extended or traded at deadline
Dillon traded at deadline
Nino extended or traded

Last third of the season
Connor-Vilardi-Perfetti
Ehlers-Barron-Nino
Iafallo-Lowry-Apples
Gus-Names-Kupari

Jomo-Samberg
Chisholm-Pionk
Heinola-DeMelo
Schmidt

Bross-?

Sit either Schmidt or Gus
Get Barron, Perfetti, Vilardi tons of draws through the season and see who seizes the moment
Call up Lambert for the last 7 games
Get a nice return for Scheif and Helle - get a higher pick this year and be back in the playoffs next year
You’re not going to be back in the playoffs next year with Barron and Lowry as two of your top 9 centres..
 
With no trades, this is how I would probably start.

KFC Villardi Ehlers
Nino Scheif Perfetti
Iafallo Lowry Kupari
Barron Names Appleton
Gus

PP1
Perfetti
Ehlers Scheif. KFC
Morrisey

PP2
Nino
Villardi Iafallo Schmidt
Pionk
I really like the looks of the forward lines. This is actually "lineup depth", and it gives all types of mix and match options to see what works - but 4 NHL lines.

I for one had grown weary of the old Scheif back with Wheeler and Lowry with Appleton. This looks like 12 guys that can play - and dare I say produce to some degree. Not heaping scorn on players like Toninato or Kuhlman - but you just know that they are never going to piss a drop of offence no matter who they are with...here, there are combination options.
 
You’re not going to be back in the playoffs next year with Barron and Lowry as two of your top 9 centres..
In the East you have no hope... in the West, never say never

Lowry is a top 9 centre regardless and we are heading into the season with him and Names... and like I said let someone grab the 2C position - maybe its Perfetti

I'd also assume we get a Vilardi level talent or two back in one of the Scheif/Helle trades - Then you hope Lucius or Lambert emerges as a potential 1C - slot one of them in at 2 or 3C for 2024 and hope they breakout
 
I think you can sell the fanbase on another - 'we're a young team' phase and a modest rebuild
My best case scenario for this season
Scheif traded at deadline or sooner
Helle extended or traded at deadline
Dillon traded at deadline
Nino extended or traded

Last third of the season
Connor-Vilardi-Perfetti
Ehlers-Barron-Nino
Iafallo-Lowry-Apples
Gus-Names-Kupari

Jomo-Samberg
Chisholm-Pionk
Heinola-DeMelo
Schmidt

Bross-?

Sit either Schmidt or Gus
Get Barron, Perfetti, Vilardi tons of draws through the season and see who seizes the moment
Call up Lambert for the last 7 games
Get a nice return for Scheif and Helle - get a higher pick this year and be back in the playoffs next year

I don't think a team like that gets into the playoffs after a year off. As @Weezeric said, that C depth is atrocious and it's a lot of hoping that prospects seize the moment. Lambert needs a couple years in the AHL. Heinola hasn't been consistent at all. Chisholm hasn't played a game in the NHL yet you've got him on the 2nd pair. Samberg had a nice year sheltered on the left and you've moved him to top pairing minutes on his wrong side.

There's too many "ifs" there. If the return on 55/37 is good (50/50 on that). If someone takes the 2C role. If the younger guys take the next step. If that goaltending works (I don't trust Brossoit with a starters workload).
 
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I don't think a team like that gets into the playoffs after a year off. As @Weezeric said, that C depth is atrocious and it's a lot of hoping that prospects seize the moment. Lambert needs a couple years in the AHL. Heinola hasn't been consistent at all. Chisholm hasn't played a game in the NHL yet you've got him on the 2nd pair. Samberg had a nice year sheltered on the left and you've moved him to top pairing minutes on his wrong side.

There's too many "ifs" there. If the return on 55/37 is good (50/50 on that). If someone takes the 2C role. If the younger guys take the next step. If that goaltending works (I don't trust Brossoit with a starters workload).
Just to be clear, this is a lineup built assuming NO return for Scheif or Wheeler which of course there will be.

I'm running that lineup as start of the rebuild... lose a lot of games down the stretch and get a high pick - what's not obvious about that

we still have Schmidt and Pionk under contract next season and likely DeMelo... but at some point we need to see what we have in the cupboards.

Which top prospects did we ever leave in the AHL for 2-3 years...? Jets go one and maybe 1-1/2 in the A then you're in the bigs if they think you're top six... if all our prospects spend extended time in the A, the Jets are in a long rebuild whether they want it or not

Im guessing you're in the re-sign Scheif camp?
 
I'm not totally sure, to be honest. I try to look at it through looking at recent history, the market here, etc. I'm probably just going to ramble a bit but there should be some coherent thoughts in it.

I think rebuilding solely through the draft is difficult. There are so many factors involved and you're not going to fill in gaps with FAs or impact players with some experience due to NTCs. Also, with a market like Winnipeg, you also have the increased risk factor of a prospect you've developed saying he doesn't want to stay long term. That can throw a wrench into things.

One could argue that the team as constructed now was largely built through the draft and you'd have a partial point. The D is all trades except Samberg and Morrissey. The team has had some partial success being competitive but I'd argue if it weren't for Hellebuyck the team as constructed with even an average goalie would not have had the success it did.

You could argue that you could make trades for younger players without NTCs that could step in right away and help, and again, partially true, but teams lately seem very reluctant to ship out players like that where the team has control for 3+ years. I think getting what they got for Dubois was a minor miracle.

There's also the business side. I don't care how many people on here say it, until I see evidence otherwise, I'm not convinced in the slightest that a rebuild is actually better for ticket sales. Bad teams don't sell, whether the team has been up front with saying "We're rebuilding" or not. Chicago blatantly tanked and their nightly average attendance was the worst it had been since 2007-08. Attendance in Buffalo was under 10k for 2021-22. The team was decent last year and suddenly that jumps 6k a night. Winnipeg is already seen as a small outlier market in the league, just the optics alone are bad if attendance drips thanks to Bettman's "it has to sell out each night" stuff when the team came back, even if that's not totally true.

I bring up rebuild as tanking because I think the successful teams are more often than not built on the back of a superstar player. Crosby/Malkin/Letang/Fleury. Kopitar/Doughty. Ovechkin. Stamkos/Kucherov/Hedman/Vasilevsky. McDavid/Draisaitl. Matthews/Marner/Reilly. MacKinnon. These teams that have had strong levels of success, be it regular season dominance or playoff success, have had one or more very high draft pick lead the charge. There are some exceptions of course but I don't think Winnipeg fits that mold (eg Vegas, Boston). I think we'll see Chicago have that with Bedard. Players will line up to play with top end talent. Winnipeg has a superstar but unfortunately it's in a position where there's no offensive impact at all.

I think the team will be forced into a rebuild eventually but because I think it's going to be long and ultimately have a small chance of actual success in my view, the team should avoid doing that as much as they possibly can until they absolutely cannot avoid it. I think a small market team voluntarily going into that kind of tank job is suicide. I think trying to get NHL ready players for assets that aren't wanting to stay is going to make your team worse, or at best, stay at a similar level.

Excellent post!!

I just got to my cottage and will share thoughts when I get time. Right now I have to tow one Seadoo with another Seadoo to get it pulled out for repair. Then I have to cook dinner for two hungry 14 year old boys.

BBQ’d Ribeye, Caesar Salad, Orzo with Parmesan and Basil Is on the menu.
 
Just to be clear, this is a lineup built assuming NO return for Scheif or Wheeler which of course there will be.

I'm running that lineup as start of the rebuild... lose a lot of games down the stretch and get a high pick - what's not obvious about that

we still have Schmidt and Pionk under contract next season and likely DeMelo... but at some point we need to see what we have in the cupboards.

Which top prospects did we ever leave in the AHL for 2-3 years...? Jets go one and maybe 1-1/2 in the A then you're in the bigs if they think you're top six... if all our prospects spend extended time in the A, the Jets are in a long rebuild whether they want it or not

Im guessing you're in the re-sign Scheif camp?

You're assumption that you're running that lineup as the start of the rebuild is way too optimistic given you have the Jets in the playoffs the following year. It's not going to be a 2 month rebuild between the TDL and the end of next season.

Whether the Jets bring up Lambert and Lucius within a year and a half or so, I don't think they'll be ready enough to be so impactful as to drag that group to the playoffs.

I'm not in any camp with regards to Scheifele. Try to re-sign him if it makes sense. If the team is as mid as expected, he'll have a buyer at the deadline. The return would be for pieces that won't immediately step in though. Barron was nice return in the Copp deal but he's a bottom 6 guy. That's the type you get at the deadline.
 
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You're assumption that you're running that lineup as the start of the rebuild is way too optimistic given you have the Jets in the playoffs the following year. It's not going to be a 2 month rebuild between the TDL and the end of next season.

Whether the Jets bring up Lambert and Lucius within a year and a half or so, I don't think they'll be ready enough to be so impactful as to drag that group to the playoffs.

I'm not in any camp with regards to Scheifele. Try to re-sign him if it makes sense. If the team is as mid as expected, he'll have a buyer at the deadline. The return would be for pieces that won't immediately step in though. Barron was nice return in the Copp deal but he's a bottom 6 guy. That's the type you get at the deadline.
Copp is a 2C now... with Panarin he looked like he would succeed... just saying I want to know what our ceiling is for guys and I'd rather do it if it also means a higher pick...

I'm not saying we will win the cup in 2024-25 but a rebuild in the West is a lot easier than the East... I'd do it now while Chicago, Nashville, Calgary, Minnie are regrouping... I honestly think LA is worse after UFA season

There's four strong teams in the West and six BAD ones. A young roster that buys in to Bones system can be a playoff team like Seattle... you're being way too hard on our talent level.

So I'd run that roster for this season to get a higher pick and see if someone rises to the challenge...

This is the lineup I'm seeing for 2024-25 including reasonable returns for Helle and Scheif trade - not homerun level...

Connor-Vilardi-Perfetti
Ehlers-Names/(Mittelstadt)-Nino/Lambert/Chib
Iafallo/Barron-Lowry-Apples
Names/Iafallo-Kupari-Lambert/Lucius

Jomo-DeMelo
Samberg-Pionk
Chisholm/Heinola-Schmidt

Swayman-Bross

Chib/Salomondsson first call ups

That's a wildcard team... why not? Obviously if Barron, Perfetti, Kupari, Vilardi show they can thrive at Centre - you develop them there - the Jets have been pathetic at developing the C position and now we KNOW we can't attract top RFAs that will stay

We will have 2-3 prospects in the lineup by 2024-25 - we have seen what staying in the AHL means for development (Ves, Harkins, Heinola, Petan, etc...) - even Roslovic made the jump after 1-1/2
 
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