BobTheSolarsystem
Registered User
- Oct 4, 2020
- 11,324
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Yeah Im just talking about the price range... I think its probably $3 @ 2 years when our cap is opening up...
Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24
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kylbaz
Winnipeg <3
- Nov 14, 2015
- 5,184
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I'd lock him up as long as possible. Gamble but it's not easy getting guys here.
- Jun 10, 2014
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My mistake. I just looked at his age. That makes him less desirable.
What do you think of Kulich? All I have is stats and this, "The Czech forward is moving in every direction on the ice with great speed, using boards for sneaky manoeuvres and he was far the best skater on the ice in every game I have seen so far. He worked smart with the boards with either sending the puck out of the defensive zone or just making a pass. Zone entries also didn’t seem like a problem for him. -EliteProspects 2022 NHL Draft Guide"
He just seems to keep excelling wherever he goes. Doesn't even seem to need any adjustment time. 46 pts in 62 AHL games may not knock your socks off - until you realize he did that at 18 YO.
I haven't seen enough of him to really form an opinion but as you said his stats are pretty impressive given his age.
I'd be happy with him but am more familiar with Savoie and his tool set. I think Savoie would fit in quite well with what we are building. Plays like Point on Tampa.
I like both of these. Sign me up. Been beating the drum for the Middlestadt trade for a couple of weeks now (I believe Pierre Lebrun suggested it in the same column where he said Hellebuyck would not extend with the Jets).I see 2 trades that seem to fit the needs on both sides.
Hellebuyck to Buffalo for a Centre.
Scheifele to Boston for a goalie.
Jets may need to take back a contract or 2 to make the cap work. Those would not be pure cap dumps but at least somewhat useful players. Those contracts might be flipped if they are players Jets really don't need. Alternatively, Jets could retain 25-35% to make the numbers work. Retention is not too bad because it is only for 1 year in each case.
Buffalo:
to Jets, Mittelstadt
to Sabres, Hellebuyck
The cap works. Does either side add? Which one and how much?
Sabres have only 11 F with Mitts gone. We could add Harkins and/or Appleton but what do we get in exchange for the add? They are also a little thin on D after the top 3. Could we help them out there for an add?
Alternative:
to Jets, Kulich + Olofsson + 1st
to Sabres, Hellebuyck + Harkins + Appleton
Boston:
to Bruins, Scheifele
to Jets, Swayman
Bruins would want to send Grzelcyk or Carlo as the add/cap relief. If we took Grz we would need to flip him. I'd much rather get Carlo but he would have to waive. If Carlo is a no go I would suggest we get Geekie, retain 25-30% on Scheif and add Harkins.
Alternative:
to Bruins, Scheifele
to Jets, Ullmark
That makes the cap work. When was the last time a team traded the current Vezina holder? Ever? But Bruins could, having Swayman. Not sure they would though. That would put us right back in the same situation in goal a year from now. Ullmark also has trade protection so that option probably dies on the bargaining table.
There are other possible landing spots for both Scheif and Helle but these 2 look like such good fits I find it hard to see how they don't happen. Just a matter of working out the details. Of course, I have seen other trade matches made in heaven that never materialized. In fact no trade I have dreamed up has ever happened. But this time it is just too good a fit ........
Now the part where I throw cold water on the whole thing: I don't think either one will happen. I don't think either guy is traded before training camp.
Here's my case:
1. In every post-season press conference, Chevy's been laying the groundwork for them both coming back next year. He specifically said regarding Scheifele that he hasn't indicated he won't stay.
2. Regarding Scheifele specifically, it doesn't feel like there's deal out there that will allow them to stay competitive next year. I'd say it's more likely they announce a Scheifele extension in the summer than a trade. Start building the statue now
3. Same thing for Hellebuyck, but the difference there is he HAS to do something because he knows he won't re-sign. This is the toughest one, but a favorite Chevy mantra is "when you have time, use it". Likeliest outcome I feel is he will trade him at the deadline after he's started 50 games for us. Or, if things are going really well, he becomes an "own rental" and this place goes nuts.
4. Generally, this is the time of year where the league shuts down. All the GMs made a bunch of big moves between draft & FA and now they all get to think they are geniuses for 2 months until they hit the ice and half of them are proven wrong. I bet we don't see any significant moves (Karlsson, Lindholm, etc) until camps open in the fall.
(Now that I've posted this, expect a 5-team blockbuster trade by the morning....)
- Jun 10, 2014
- 59,564
- 32,646
5'9 does not fit the description of my ideal C. Kulich is no power F either but a little bigger. Nothing too specific but I think Savoie and Kulich have swapped places in the minds of Sabres fans. I read one post suggesting the order of their 1st rd picks in that draft should have been reversed.
I wouldn't judge too much on size. It is effectiveness that counts. Kulich sure seems to be effective, including playing against men. I'm inferring a high HIQ from his ability to move up without missing a beat, including adapting to the NA game coming from Europe.
I think Savoie likely plays on the wing in the show. Don't know if Kulich projects as a center or winger, would have to see more of him to get an idea.
So that's the ghetto choice?
- Jun 10, 2014
- 59,564
- 32,646
I like both of these. Sign me up. Been beating the drum for the Middlestadt trade for a couple of weeks now (I believe Pierre Lebrun suggested it in the same column where he said Hellebuyck would not extend with the Jets).
Now the part where I throw cold water on the whole thing: I don't think either one will happen. I don't think either guy is traded before training camp.
Here's my case:
1. In every post-season press conference, Chevy's been laying the groundwork for them both coming back next year. He specifically said regarding Scheifele that he hasn't indicated he won't stay.
2. Regarding Scheifele specifically, it doesn't feel like there's deal out there that will allow them to stay competitive next year. I'd say it's more likely they announce a Scheifele extension in the summer than a trade. Start building the statue now
3. Same thing for Hellebuyck, but the difference there is he HAS to do something because he knows he won't re-sign. This is the toughest one, but a favorite Chevy mantra is "when you have time, use it". Likeliest outcome I feel is he will trade him at the deadline after he's started 50 games for us. Or, if things are going really well, he becomes an "own rental" and this place goes nuts.
4. Generally, this is the time of year where the league shuts down. All the GMs made a bunch of big moves between draft & FA and now they all get to think they are geniuses for 2 months until they hit the ice and half of them are proven wrong. I bet we don't see any significant moves (Karlsson, Lindholm, etc) until camps open in the fall.
(Now that I've posted this, expect a 5-team blockbuster trade by the morning....)
IIRC I have already posted predicting them both being here to start the season so I am not disagreeing with you.
A lot depends on Helle. His first statement, and it was clear, was simply that he does not want to be around for a rebuild. Extending that a bit, he wants to have a chance at the Cup. So I don't think it is quite 100% that he won't extend here. If he is hearing that the reason he is not traded is because teams are leery of paying him AND if he is persuaded that Jets can contend in the near future he still might stay. I'm calling it 80-20 that he goes. Maybe that is optimistic.
Maybe if Scheifele extends, he sees the possibility.Your points:
1) I agree Chevy has been laying the ground work - but if Chevy ever said anything it was an accident and you can't read anything into it. More likely he is just putting on a show for potential trade partners. That is, if they won't pay for our guys, we'll keep them.
2) I think a Scheifele extension is more likely than a Helle one. Maybe 50/50? But there are teams badly in need of top 6 Cs. Boston especially.
This from a Boston writer: Bruins Have the Pieces to Acquire Jets' Scheifele
3) You said it yourself. He HAS to do something. The own rental thing would be an absolute disaster IMO, unless we make it to at least the Conf final - at least.
4) Could be, but there is still quite a bit of buzz about various things. Now that Debrincat is done I think Hellebuyck is next up. It may go quiet on any particular front for a while and then ramp up. PLD to LAK kind of did that. Maybe Helle to NJD does the same.
If we extend Scheifele, it becomes easier to deal with NJD. If Helle has really indicated that he would like to sign with them it should happen. We can make the cap work for them and they have interesting pieces. I've proposed we take Marino. The good thing about that for them is that it gives them cap relief for 4 years, not just 1. But lots of potential flexibility if we don't need to get a C in return for Helle.
Potrzebie
Registered User
- Mar 25, 2010
- 2,391
- 3,074
Well thats a take alright.
So when the Oilers are desperate for a goal and they put McD and Drai together is it just to send a message?
This is well laid out and probably a pretty accurate take. I'd say there is maybe 2 more weeks for thinks to get done. GMs stay relatively active up until the arbitration hearings and their RFA signings. The big Matthew Tkachuk trade didn't happen until July 22nd last summer. After that things will go dark until right before camp, but by then most teams' rosters will be pretty much locked down.IIRC I have already posted predicting them both being here to start the season so I am not disagreeing with you.
A lot depends on Helle. His first statement, and it was clear, was simply that he does not want to be around for a rebuild. Extending that a bit, he wants to have a chance at the Cup. So I don't think it is quite 100% that he won't extend here. If he is hearing that the reason he is not traded is because teams are leery of paying him AND if he is persuaded that Jets can contend in the near future he still might stay. I'm calling it 80-20 that he goes. Maybe that is optimistic.
Your points:
1) I agree Chevy has been laying the ground work - but if Chevy ever said anything it was an accident and you can't read anything into it. More likely he is just putting on a show for potential trade partners. That is, if they won't pay for our guys, we'll keep them.
2) I think a Scheifele extension is more likely than a Helle one. Maybe 50/50? But there are teams badly in need of top 6 Cs. Boston especially.
This from a Boston writer: Bruins Have the Pieces to Acquire Jets' Scheifele
3) You said it yourself. He HAS to do something. The own rental thing would be an absolute disaster IMO, unless we make it to at least the Conf final - at least.
4) Could be, but there is still quite a bit of buzz about various things. Now that Debrincat is done I think Hellebuyck is next up. It may go quiet on any particular front for a while and then ramp up. PLD to LAK kind of did that. Maybe Helle to NJD does the same.
If we extend Scheifele, it becomes easier to deal with NJD. If Helle has really indicated that he would like to sign with them it should happen. We can make the cap work for them and they have interesting pieces. I've proposed we take Marino. The good thing about that for them is that it gives them cap relief for 4 years, not just 1. But lots of potential flexibility if we don't need to get a C in return for Helle.
these are some of (all?) the higher-priced UFA-1 players the Jets have had.... think of players that signed high-valued UFA driven deals after the current contract.
trouba, pld, copp, ladd, buff, wheeler, little, myers
trouba, pld were both still RFAs - dealt off-season prior to their UFA year
Copp, ladd - dealt at the TDL couple months prior to UFA
wheeler, little - extended w/ a year remaining
Buff - re-signed during the nhl season
Myers - left as UFA
im leaning toward scheifele & helle being on the roster in the fall. after that perhaps they're moved at the tdl if not extended
depends how we are placed.
this team is not rebuilding, still want to make the POs. what are they replacing scheifele or helle with?
trouba, pld, copp, ladd, buff, wheeler, little, myers
trouba, pld were both still RFAs - dealt off-season prior to their UFA year
Copp, ladd - dealt at the TDL couple months prior to UFA
wheeler, little - extended w/ a year remaining
Buff - re-signed during the nhl season
Myers - left as UFA
im leaning toward scheifele & helle being on the roster in the fall. after that perhaps they're moved at the tdl if not extended
depends how we are placed.this team is not rebuilding, still want to make the POs. what are they replacing scheifele or helle with?
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i don't think he can sign for that low
huh what do you mean squeak in? you should be thankful you got the opportunity to attend 2 white-out parties
i don't disagree. i think this team should really be rebuilding, but the PLD trade, keeping scheifele and helle around (so far), along w/ their messaging indicates to me they will not be doing that. evidently no team really wants to rebuild so i understand why they want to avoid it.
and i just don't see how they stay afloat w/ a new goalie really given that premise. the FAs left are what, Martin Jones? yikes
Vanacek seems to be a popular choice in a return, is a Vanacek/Brossoit tandem good enough to back-strop this team to a PO spot? i don't know.... id think not? but goalies are so up and down. he's a career 0.909 with a high of 0.911. comparing Helle vs Vanacek with the Jets SOG allowed and xGA & by no means is this perfect by just an idea of what a 0.911 may look like.....using 0.911 vs 0.920 sv% on the same shot quantity the Jets saw last year it's a 21 goal difference. or by GA vs xGA the two goalies are about a 19 goal difference.
hence imo they keep Helle given they want to make the POs. he keeps the team's floor quite high.
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- Jun 10, 2014
- 59,564
- 32,646
Yup.
I think that the only chance of anything big happening that late is if a couple of teams (Buffalo and Boston for examples) have still got those big holes in their rosters. They might loosen the purse strings in that case. But I expect they will be going all out to find solutions in these next couple of weeks.
Scheif Helle this year may be our new version of Ladd and Buff. Where it was out there only one is coming back and either are gone without an extension by deadlinethese are some of (all?) the higher-priced UFA-1 players the Jets have had.... think of players that signed high-valued UFA driven deals after the current contract.
trouba, pld, copp, ladd, buff, wheeler, little, myers
trouba, pld were both still RFAs - dealt off-season prior to their UFA year
Copp, ladd - dealt at the TDL couple months prior to UFA
wheeler, little - extended w/ a year remaining
Buff - re-signed during the nhl season
Myers - left as UFA
im leaning toward scheifele & helle being on the roster in the fall. after that perhaps they're moved at the tdl if not extended
this team is not rebuilding, still want to make the POs. what are they replacing scheifele or helle with?
Nickel eye Heel hers
Happy thoughts
The joke is you comparing 2 elite players like McD and Drai to Schief and Dubois.
A Jets power line would be KFC Schief and Ehlers.
Not Dubois.
gojetsgo
Registered User
- Nov 1, 2015
- 11,603
- 33,266
yeah, what a message sent to schiefele asking him if he had a problem swapping back in forth playing center/wing on a line with pld/connor...
Potrzebie
Registered User
- Mar 25, 2010
- 2,391
- 3,074
Oh I'm not comparing them in the least. I just don't think it's unusual for a coach to try and load up a line with his best offensive players when they are desperate for offense, as the Jets were when Bowness tried that and had nothing to do with "sending a message".
Edit: "He lines up at wing, but on the right side he'll still be taking some face-offs. Mark is a smart player," Bowness said of the ice-cold Scheifele. "We need to score some goals. So I talked to the three of them this morning and said let's give this a try, and they're all gung-ho for it. So let's see what it looks like."
Gil Fisher
Registered User
He could ask for arbitration after the 3 year deal and walk after that.
For me it's a one or two years for slightly more than 3m or 6 or 7 years for around 6m.
I think Chevy goes for the 2 years but hoping it's 6 years.
6 or 7 x 6m would be okay with me.
He turns 24 next month.
IMO the idea is not have a contract come due that is virtually the same as UFA status, except with some leverage of getting a return for the last season of control if you have to move a player. With 1 year left a player has arbitration and is 1 and done unless you trade them. 2 years or long term is better for the organization.
I'd do a 1 for 3m and then a 6 x 6.5m if he is worth it.
It might be a slight overpay but when he is 27, 28, 29, it could be a pretty sweet deal.
It might be a slight overpay but when he is 27, 28, 29, it could be a pretty sweet deal.
I know we have chatted about this before but
Year 1 -
$3
Year 2 -
$4
Years 3 4 5 6
$5
$5
$6.5
$6.5
6 years, about 30 mil, about 5 mil cap hit
Saving about a mil per year on the way you had it structured.
Just an idea, but that's why I see value in betting on him now
Gil Fisher
Registered User
I think you'd extend him or trade him after two years. That's ideal.
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