Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[LowLefty]

I don't disagree with that.
But the GM needs to have a vision for the kind of team he wants. He needs to acquire players who fit that vision. I'm just saying that he also needs a coach who fits that vision. I don't think it is as simple as offensive team vs defensive team.

I agree - those are the things that are "supposed" to happen -

 

[Buffdog]

Really? Posters have been crucified ehlers for weeks now... he's not great in the playoffs but he got us back into the edmonton series and was really solid that's all I remember

Some posters have been critical of Ehlers PO performances but there have been the expected apologists with "sample size", etc - which isn't about merit in a single 5 game stretch. They've also built the "well everyone else was bad, too" strawman when talking about him

 

[Daximus]

I don't disagree with that.
But the GM needs to have a vision for the kind of team he wants. He needs to acquire players who fit that vision. I'm just saying that he also needs a coach who fits that vision. I don't think it is as simple as offensive team vs defensive team.

We really do lack any sort of identity right now. We have some skill, some speed, some snipers, some defensively sound guys, some grinders, some physical players.

We don't really have a clear cut identity right now that we can build towards. We are kind of just adding players through the draft where we can and waiting for things to come about. We had an identity back in 2018. A big quick but not overly speedy physical blue collar type team that could score at will while being backstopped by a franchise goalie. We lost a lot of that identity with the departures of guys like Wheeler, Buff, Tanev, Laine, Trouba, Myers, Copp and Chiarot. Some of those guys were players that really fit the identity we were building around. Since then we have just been sort of freefalling in what we want to be.

 

[Gm0ney]

Going back 2/3 yrs vs more recent data is also debatable.

Not really.

 

[LowLefty]

Not really.

You're welcome to ignore the more recent and lean on the what happened years ago - I think you were looking at a 3 yr window.
Maybe he's a bit better? Some won't even give him that - not that it matters, he's not that important a cog in the machinery.

 

[Gm0ney]

I believe Stanley had better PK metrics than Dillon in 3 straight years?

They're in the same ballpark. Stanley's been a bit better.

Being big and not having to move around much and not having to overthink breakout strategies too much is right in Stanley's wheelhouse.

 

[Gm0ney]

You're welcome to ignore the more recent and lean on the what happened years ago - I think you were looking at a 3 yr window.
Maybe he's a bit better? Some won't even give him that - not that it matters, he's not that important a cog in the machinery.

Yeah Stanley hasn't been used too much on the PK over the last two years...just 52 minutes a 4v5 with an average per game of 1:02 vs Dillon's 433 minutes and 2:22 PK TOI. It's just not enough data.

I just looked at the 3 year window because it at least expands the sample size. Even that isn't a big enough sample for Goals Against. But his 3 year numbers with 166 minutes or whatever it was, is probably a better gauge of his performance than a very recent 25 minute sample. The recency doesn't outweigh the larger sample.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

We really do lack any sort of identity right now. We have some skill, some speed, some snipers, some defensively sound guys, some grinders, some physical players.

We don't really have a clear cut identity right now that we can build towards. We are kind of just adding players through the draft where we can and waiting for things to come about. We had an identity back in 2018. A big quick but not overly speedy physical blue collar type team that could score at will while being backstopped by a franchise goalie. We lost a lot of that identity with the departures of guys like Wheeler, Buff, Tanev, Laine, Trouba, Myers, Copp and Chiarot. Some of those guys were players that really fit the identity we were building around. Since then we have just been sort of freefalling in what we want to be.

I think we had identity during the regular season. It was a hard on the puck (when they were playing well) 6 man defense that created offense off of the defense. Pack of wolves lite.

That disappeared in the PO. The slow F acquired at the TD were exposed. But during the regular season Jets managed to shut down some fast teams. Start with the Avs.

Edit: There is no clear identity right now. Where are we going from here? Arniel may have a direction in mind but what it might be remains to be seen.

 

[LowLefty]

Yeah Stanley hasn't been used too much on the PK over the last two years...just 52 minutes a 4v5 with an average per game of 1:02 vs Dillon's 433 minutes and 2:22 PK TOI. It's just not enough data.

I just looked at the 3 year window because it at least expands the sample size. Even that isn't a big enough sample for Goals Against. But his 3 year numbers with 166 minutes or whatever it was, is probably a better gauge of his performance than a very recent 25 minute sample. The recency doesn't outweigh the larger sample.

I'm just curious how those that know would go about an evaluation of his PK numbers - do they need to wait another 3 yrs before he could potentially be considered decent? At what point do the old numbers drop off the equation? How do they weight recent vs ancient? Is there any consideration for growth and how does it factor?

 

[Gm0ney]

I'm just curious how those that know would go about an evaluation of his PK numbers - do they need to wait another 3 yrs before he could potentially be considered decent? At what point do the old numbers drop off the equation? How do they weight recent vs ancient? Is there any consideration for growth and how does it factor?

Statistically? More recent stuff is given more weight...like when you see those player ratings on Twitter or whatever.

But when 75% of Stanley's PK TOI was 3 seasons ago that's still going to hold sway over more recent numbers.

 

[voyageur]

We really do lack any sort of identity right now. We have some skill, some speed, some snipers, some defensively sound guys, some grinders, some physical players.

We don't really have a clear cut identity right now that we can build towards. We are kind of just adding players through the draft where we can and waiting for things to come about. We had an identity back in 2018. A big quick but not overly speedy physical blue collar type team that could score at will while being backstopped by a franchise goalie. We lost a lot of that identity with the departures of guys like Wheeler, Buff, Tanev, Laine, Trouba, Myers, Copp and Chiarot. Some of those guys were players that really fit the identity we were building around. Since then we have just been sort of freefalling in what we want to be.

I don't know how you free fall into a 110 point season...seems like the buy in was achieved to playing with structure...playing fast and heavy when needed. Lacking a lot of elite superstars, I think the identity has to be a defensive one for the foreseeable future...never going to have another defenseman like Buff. And even he needed Maurice to get to the next level.

 

[Daximus]

I don't know how you free fall into a 110 point season...seems like the buy in was achieved to playing with structure...playing fast and heavy when needed. Lacking a lot of elite superstars, I think the identity has to be a defensive one for the foreseeable future...never going to have another defenseman like Buff. And even he needed Maurice to get to the next level.

Happens all the time. I think there some teams that try really hard all season and when they hit playoffs they don't have another gear because what you saw all season was 110%. Then you have teams that can just sort of coast at 80% all season and then when the playoffs start all the sudden they have another gear to show.

I think the Jets were one of those teams that was giving it 110% all season. I think the Avs were one of those teams that was coasting and then MacK, Rants and Makar decided to wake up.

 

[surixon]

Happens all the time. I think there some teams that try really hard all season and when they hit playoffs they don't have another gear because what you saw all season was 110%. Then you have teams that can just sort of coast at 80% all season and then when the playoffs start all the sudden they have another gear to show.

I think the Jets were one of those teams that was giving it 110% all season. I think the Avs were one of those teams that was coasting and then MacK, Rants and Makar decided to wake up.

Also league best goaltending tends to mask a lot of issues. We were 110 points with real flaws in our play like special teams. I feel the Jets were a bonifide playoff team that all world tending pushed into elite status.

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

Happens all the time. I think there some teams that try really hard all season and when they hit playoffs they don't have another gear because what you saw all season was 110%. Then you have teams that can just sort of coast at 80% all season and then when the playoffs start all the sudden they have another gear to show.

I think the Jets were one of those teams that was giving it 110% all season. I think the Avs were one of those teams that was coasting and then MacK, Rants and Makar decided to wake up.

I was optimistic earlier on in the season, when Arniel was behind the bench, that he was dialling back some of the minutes for the players on the 1st line. It's easy to say now, but I would have been more
confident going into the playoffs, had the Jets not waited until the last few games to announce that they were going to find ways to start limiting the amount of minutes played for key players. They had enough veterans, and a good system in play (that they were buying into), to have gone that route much earlier on in the season.

 

[voyageur]

Happens all the time. I think there some teams that try really hard all season and when they hit playoffs they don't have another gear because what you saw all season was 110%. Then you have teams that can just sort of coast at 80% all season and then when the playoffs start all the sudden they have another gear to show.

I think the Jets were one of those teams that was giving it 110% all season. I think the Avs were one of those teams that was coasting and then MacK, Rants and Makar decided to wake up.

I think among my friends the question was always how far can the Jets go with the defense...The Monahan trade addressed the PP struggles at the halfway point...Defense played tight...But the Avs clearly had the better defense come playoff time...maybe it is another gear in the playoffs, certainly the structure looked broken...injuries didn't help, but talent wise, on paper, that wasn't as easy of a matchup as the regular season results proved. I still believe MacKinnon when he said the Jets humbled the Avs in the regular season...That last beatdown might have had the same impact as Ryan Whitney's statement about the Jets being frauds had in the Winnipeg locker room down the stretch.

Do you think that the near collapse the year before, when the Jets took the foot off the pedal and barely got back up to speed, changed the Jets intensity during the regular season...After 2 regular season collapses that resulted in 1st round exits I'd say there was a bit more optimism heading into the playoffs this season.

 

[ecolad]

My 2 cents on what we saw with the Avs series. Jets were totally unable to exert any pressure on the Avs in the offensive and neutral zones, with the result that the Avs transitioned into our zone quickly and almost effortlessly. Since creating such pressure was FUNDAMENTAL to our success all year, it was frustrating to watch and still somewhat inexplicable. I don`t think the lack of pressure was predominately a consequence of player skating speed but also a coach messaging thing - but who knows for sure. Jets game plan also failed them badly -( to fully dedicate Lowry`s line, supported by our 1st D pairing to match up with MacKinnon, while hoping that Scheif and Monahan could outscore Av`s 2nd and 3rd lines),. Mittlestadt`s line created all kinds of problems for Scheif`s line when in our end, which was also frustrating to watch but not totally unexpected. Our 2nd and 3rd defensive pairings did not exactly cover themselves in glory ( I`m really thinking of you, Pionk).

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yeah people loathe to say size matters in the nhl but it does.

It's not the only thing that matters obviously but it is a positive attribute nonetheless.

Being big or strong enough for your role and playstyle is critical, and being bigger than most with sputtering skill is a bit of a unicorn.

Imagine if Connor was 6' 5" 245 and kept all his other attributes.


Yeah that one puzzled me a bit.

He was waived by the Coyotes of all teams so maybe there's something else going on there?

No way Connor could be 6'5, 245 and retain his speed or quickness. Those are his main attributes.

All other things being equal, bigger size helps. But how often does that happen? Part of what made player X good enough to play in the NHL was his size. He used his size to compensate for some weakness elsewhere. Just as smaller players need to find a way to compensate. In the end each player is what he is in part due to his size, large or small.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I really wasn't all that big of a fan of Monahan either, especially in the playoffs. He looked slow, he was bad in the defensive zone and he didn't contribute much in the offensive side either.

I'd rather we take a step back, inject some youth and see if anyone is ready to take the reigns than sign Monahan as our 2C solution.

I think Monahan helped our PP. His FO ability contributed there. But I hope we don't sign him as our 2C solution.

Speaking of FO, I think we had a big edge over Avs in that department, IIRC. It didn't prevent 4 straight losses. Hmmmmm?

 

[Bob E]

Ya, the Avs series exposed how poorly our d are when pressured. Only Morrissey seemed to excel in creating space and making solid zone exit plays (passes or skating it out of zone). Samberg and DeMelo were ok at times, but had their unsettling moments too. Samberg might improve with experience.

The other d struggled closing gaps, getting the puck on retrieval and making clean exit plays. Pionk struggles mightily against speed and routinely gets beat. Stanley, Dillon and Schmidt gave the puck away regularly. And when I say regularly I mean multiple times each shift, if the Jets even had possession multiple times.

Efficient puck movers that are hard to play against are desperately needed. Young players like Heinola and Salomonsson will help as they transition the puck very well. But Elias might still be a year or two away.

If DeMelo isn’t back, Jets need two RH shot that can move the puck. A guy like Pulock and soon to be UFA Adam Larsson would work. They could also use a physical pk dman that fills Dillon’s role, a guy like Joel Edmundson.

Morrissey-Larsson (Salomonsson)
Samberg-Pulock
Edmundson-Heinola

A group like that would improve pk (Edmundson + Larsson), the 2nd pp unit (Pulock + Heinola) and would definitely be harder to play against.

 

[Aries56]

Defense wins championships. It's how Vegas won. It's how Florida has been so successful. The biggest problem with using that strategy with this roster is that our defense doesn't have the star power it needs to have to go far into the playoffs that way.

Morrissey is great, but it's a major talent drop off after him. I liked Dillon, but with him likely gone, I wouldn't be surprised to see Stanley and Samberg competing for that second LHD spot. As much as Stanley is disliked, the team seems to still think they have something there. Don't be surprised when he gets a larger role next year because of the gap left from Dillon leaving.

 

[10Ducky10]

I saw somewhere that Mono wants 3 x 5.25m...take it for with a grain of salt. Can;t remember where I heard/saw it but it wasn't on TSN.

 

[Daximus]

Sounds like Ducks want to move on from Zegras and would like a winger and a dman if possible. I haven't paid to much attention to him in Anaheim but he was once a highly touted center prospect. The question is would be resign here or walk himself to FA? And is he worth the price?

 

[Gil Fisher]

Sounds like Ducks want to move on from Zegras and would like a winger and a dman if possible. I haven't paid to much attention to him in Anaheim but he was once a highly touted center prospect. The question is would be resign here or walk himself to FA? And is he worth the price?

Just noticing the Ducks have 7 picks in the first three rounds of the draft. And get to build around Leo Carlsson and Mason McTavish as their 1 and 2 C.

 

[Buffdog]

Sounds like Ducks want to move on from Zegras and would like a winger and a dman if possible. I haven't paid to much attention to him in Anaheim but he was once a highly touted center prospect. The question is would be resign here or walk himself to FA? And is he worth the price?

They'd probably ask for Perfetti instead of ehlers. Matches their limeline better

 

[surixon]

Sounds like Ducks want to move on from Zegras and would like a winger and a dman if possible. I haven't paid to much attention to him in Anaheim but he was once a highly touted center prospect. The question is would be resign here or walk himself to FA? And is he worth the price?

I don't know that he fits other then being a young C. There are major holes in his game and imo there is a reason the Ducks are shopping a player you'd expect would be part of a rebuild.