Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[Royale With Cheese]

Maybe we see if Ehlers for 10 is something they are interested in. They don't really seem to have any need for wingers so I doubt that's enough to move the needle.

I’d wager it would be Ehlers plus at least a 1st round pick (next year I guess) and possibly more.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I would consider both teams in the finals to have large durable defenses. Even the "small" guys like Forsling and Montour are 6"0 200 pounds. The Panthers have a some pretty big physical guys playing on the backend with them. What is surprising to me is that Bouchard is as big as he is but both teams play with big backends.

 

[KingBogo]

Rights to bross and nate Schmidt for number 10!!! I'll even throw in Alex iafallo

Not sure if you meant to add sarcasm emoji but that is negative value going back. If Chevy can get #10 OA for negative value that will be his best work yet.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

It would be very Devils like to trade that pick for someone like Zegras

 

[tbcwpg]

Going back 2/3 yrs vs more recent data is also debatable.


Wouldn't that be nice - always fun to dream - but I like the dream.

Fantasy rebuilds are always fun but I tend to discount any Jets ideas that involve them signing UFAs of any significance from outside the organization.

 

[LowLefty]

Fantasy rebuilds are always fun but I tend to discount any Jets ideas that involve them signing UFAs of any significance from outside the organization.

I think most would likely agree with that statement -
Dreams are another thing entirely.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Good points - thanks for filling in the gaps because I over simplified

It's pretty obvious watching the hockey played right now, that players need to step up and give it their all - and I assume they are all watching. So maybe they didn't come up through the ranks playing that type of game - but they could if they really wanted to win as much as they tell us they do.

But back to reality, I get the fact that some won't - but is pisses me off. They make way to much money to be mailing it in.
I agree our GM is more focused on skill set, offense numbers than he is on player character / compete and how they might all fit together as a team.


But he still needs to be aware of who he is signing and how they fit to support the game plan the coaches are running.
I have to agree with @ecolad on the fact that GM's do not get a free pass because they are managing the Jets

The same awareness needs to be applied to choosing a coach. He needs to be able to work with the players he has rather than trying to turn them into something they are not. He needs to be in tune with the style of players the GM is seeking.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

do you think the more skilled rosters just simply don't try as hard? two teams can try as equally hard, the more skilled team will come out on top in a 7 game series far more often than not

the missing ingredient is more skill, we desperately need our young players to hit and come in and make an impact like dallas had happen with johnston/harly/stank

I think both are correct. Our players were short on PO intensity - again. There were some clear skill gaps. Not sure that it was simply that we couldn't match the skill at the top end but something was missing. The TD acquisitions up front were slow. That was one skill gap. Not sure about others.

 

[LowLefty]

The same awareness needs to be applied to choosing a coach. He needs to be able to work with the players he has rather than trying to turn them into something they are not. He needs to be in tune with the style of players the GM is seeking.

I'd see a challenge for any coach to drive systems when the players and their game styles are all over the place -
Tough to be in tune with what the GM is doing if the GM is not doing what the org has stated they want to do.
Based on comments and maybe reading between the lines a bit, it sounds like the org wants to continue with the growth experienced LY - which was mainly a defensive approach that required some players to adapt or change their game.
The coach needs to drive a system - the GM needs to provide him with the players to support that system (assuming they all agree on the system employed).
Maybe that's too simple an approach? IDK -

 

[Daximus]

Ehlers ain't getting the 10th

Yeah wishful thinking but would be nice.

 

[WolfHouse]

Not sure if you meant to add sarcasm emoji but that is negative value going back. If Chevy can get #10 OA for negative value that will be his best work yet.

I stand by my claim that you're no fun at parties

 

[voyageur]

I don't think you should draw any conclusions from 25 minutes for Stanley and 19 minutes for Kupari on the PK this season...at least not in terms of GA/60. Stanley was one of the worst in terms of GA/60 over the two seasons previous to this one (in a larger sample of 167 PK minutes).

I believe Stanley had better PK metrics than Dillon in 3 straight years?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'd see a challenge for any coach to drive systems when the players and their game styles are all over the place -
Tough to be in tune with what the GM is doing if the GM is not doing what the org has stated they want to do.
Based on comments and maybe reading between the lines a bit, it sounds like the org wants to continue with the growth experienced LY - which was mainly a defensive approach that required some players to adapt or change their game.
The coach needs to drive a system - the GM needs to provide him with the players to support that system (assuming they all agree on the system employed).
Maybe that's too simple an approach? IDK -

I don't disagree with that.
But the GM needs to have a vision for the kind of team he wants. He needs to acquire players who fit that vision. I'm just saying that he also needs a coach who fits that vision. I don't think it is as simple as offensive team vs defensive team.

 

[surixon]

It`s interesting to utilize Florida as a comparable to the Jet`s - but I suggest we look at how the respective teams have been put together, or fundamentally built, by the GM`s. Zito clearly had a vision of what he wanted in terms of team identity ( hard working/ physical as required to win individual puck battles, team that relies on a pressure forecheck game)- and then systematically went out and got a coach that advocated such approach and then players that were known to play that style. The players he brought in were known to be highly competitive and did not have to make a major buy-in or commitment - it already existed. Chevy on the other hand has never shown the same ability to articulate his vision ,or, to collect players that fit that vision. Yes, he assembled a roster of skilled forwards but none of them ever played a hard puck pursuit type of game pre-draft, and yet he hired coach`s who seemingly know no other way to play the game. The players do not have the ingrained buy-in and commitment and have (not surprisingly) not responded well when begged to do so. So imo it is much more a challenge than players simply listening and buying in to whats needed.... .

Good points - thanks for filling in the gaps because I over simplified

It's pretty obvious watching the hockey played right now, that players need to step up and give it their all - and I assume they are all watching. So maybe they didn't come up through the ranks playing that type of game - but they could if they really wanted to win as much as they tell us they do.

But back to reality, I get the fact that some won't - but is pisses me off. They make way to much money to be mailing it in.
I agree our GM is more focused on skill set, offense numbers than he is on player character / compete and how they might all fit together as a team.


But he still needs to be aware of who he is signing and how they fit to support the game plan the coaches are running.
I have to agree with @ecolad on the fact that GM's do not get a free pass because they are managing the Jets

The same awareness needs to be applied to choosing a coach. He needs to be able to work with the players he has rather than trying to turn them into something they are not. He needs to be in tune with the style of players the GM is seeking.

I'd see a challenge for any coach to drive systems when the players and their game styles are all over the place -
Tough to be in tune with what the GM is doing if the GM is not doing what the org has stated they want to do.
Based on comments and maybe reading between the lines a bit, it sounds like the org wants to continue with the growth experienced LY - which was mainly a defensive approach that required some players to adapt or change their game.
The coach needs to drive a system - the GM needs to provide him with the players to support that system (assuming they all agree on the system employed).
Maybe that's too simple an approach? IDK -

This is the crux of the issue for me. There doesn't appear to be alignment in the org which reflects on the GM. We have them employing coaches that want a certain identity while we have an amateur scouting department grabbing different player types. Then we have a pro scouting department identifying players that don't fit the template.

So as @LowLefty put we have a smorgasbord of player types that the coach has to put into what seems like the orgs vision of a gritty puck pursuit team. So we see a lot of effort spent on hammering square pegs into round holes.

Now before you jump on me, yes all NHL players need to adapt their games a bit and need to learn to up their battle for the playoffs. But what you don't often see is players completely changing their games. Most NHL player who make it generally make it and play a style of game similar to what got them to the NHL in the first place. This org seems to want to try to change players from one thing into the player types they want. The coaching spent far too much time trying to turn Laine into a power forward and Ehlers into something else. Simply put if the org wanted the powerforward then they should have had the balls to trade down and take Tkachuk.

If you want the team to play like Lowry then go out and draft and acquire those types of players. Don't expect to be able to fundamentally change players with a decade worth of ingrained muscle memory into those types.

This org does things backwards to me.

I don't disagree with that.
But the GM needs to have a vision for the kind of team he wants. He needs to acquire players who fit that vision. I'm just saying that he also needs a coach who fits that vision. I don't think it is as simple as offensive team vs defensive team.

Exactly, there is so much nuance in terms of types of offensive vs. Types of defensive teams. Florida plays very different offense then the Lightning for instance. But in case of both successful teams it's based on the type of personnel they have.

 

[voyageur]

This is the crux of the issue for me. There doesn't appear to be alignment in the org which reflects on the GM. We have them employing coaches that want a certain identity while we have an amateur scouting department grabbing different player types. Then we have a pro scouting department identifying players that don't fit the template.

So as @LowLefty put we have a smorgasbord of player types that the coach has to put into what seems like the orgs vision of a gritty puck pursuit team. So we see a lot of effort spent on hammering square pegs into round holes.

Now before you jump on me, yes all NHL players need to adapt their games a bit and need to learn to up their battle for the playoffs. But what you don't often see is players completely changing their games. Most NHL player who make it generally make it and play a style of game similar to what got them to the NHL in the first place. This org seems to want to try to change players from one thing into the player types they want. The coaching spent far too much time trying to turn Laine into a power forward and Ehlers into something else. Simply put if the org wanted the powerforward then they should have had the balls to trade down and take Tkachuk.

If you want the team to play like Lowry then go out and draft and acquire those types of players. Don't expect to be able to fundamentally change players with a decade worth of ingrained muscle memory into those types.

This org does things backwards to me.



Exactly, there is so much nuance in terms of types of offensive vs. Types of defensive teams. Florida plays very different offense then the Lightning for instance. But in case of both successful teams it's based on the type of personnel they have.

I feel like the Jets draft to replace players...after acquiring the forward talent in 2014-2016, now you have a guy like Lambert ready to step up to replace Ehlers...Mc Groarty could very well be the replacement for Lowry...Barlow is on a timeline to replace KC...You could even say that Perfetti was drafted to replace Bryan Little. Lucius was on a timeline to replace Wheeler. Defensively I think Stanley was drafted to replace Chiarot. Samberg for Kulikov, except he stayed in college for another year. Salomonsson would be to replace Pionk. I think the GM has to be aware of a development timeline and the contract status of his players.

Heinola is one who didn't really replace anyone...maybe the BPA in that spot, on a team that knew it was going to lose a lot of d-men after the 2019 playoffs.

Chevy has put talent into his roster...last season showed that talented players can play team defense...getting past the first round is another story. Easier to work with talent than without it.

 

[Jet]

If we are going by his current game making him 6’5 and 210 lbs I don’t know what would look like or what his game would look like. As, right now his job doesn’t often consist of carrying the puck, but, picking his spots. So it’s hard to say, he would suddenly be hard to knock off his skates. It’s not like he is doing things where you can I just wish he was bigger. Would it open new elements we are currently not seeing that he is not even attempting right now? Who knows as he is not attempting them.

He carries the puck into high danger spots and tries to bring it to the net. I'd say increased size would help with that

 

[Jets 31]

I guess his floating one dimensional goalscoring could fit with a high end play driving playmaker like Barzal. Horvat on that line could do the defensive heavy lifting.

He scored all most as many goals in 5 playoff games as Ehlers has in 37 . Tofolli scored 2 goals, Ehlers has 4 in 37. I like Ehlers but who could possibly think 4 goals in 37 playoff games from one of your core players is even remotely good enough.

 

[surixon]

He scored all most as many goals in 5 playoff games as Ehlers has in 37 . Tofolli scored 2 goals, Ehlers has 4 in 37. I like Ehlers but who could possibly think 4 goals in 37 playoff games from one of your core players is even remotely good enough.

I mean Ehlers has been piss poor in the playoffs. I'm not sure what point you are making by saying well atleast he wasn't as shitty as fly. The fact is he also has been poor in the playoffs lately and didn't bring anything to the table other then goals.

 

[WolfHouse]

I mean Ehlers has been piss poor in the playoffs. I'm not sure what point you are making by saying well atleast he wasn't as shitty as fly. The fact is he also has been poor in the playoffs lately and didn't bring anything to the table other then goals.

I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say that you think perfetti has the potential to be a great playoff performer

 

[surixon]

I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say that you think perfetti has the potential to be a great playoff performer

Haven't seen enough of him in the postseason to know one way or the other. He's performed in high pressure situations in lower levels so I think it's a good sign but won't know until he's done so at the NHL level.

 

[Jets 31]

I mean Ehlers has been piss poor in the playoffs. I'm not sure what point you are making by saying well atleast he wasn't as shitty as fly. The fact is he also has been poor in the playoffs lately and didn't bring anything to the table other then goals.

At least he was doing that is what i meant which you need to win a hockey game. I also think Scheifele and Connor take shit on here all the time, some of it deserved, but Ehlers can do no wrong and the guy absolutely disappears every playoffs.4 goals in 37 playoff games is not good enough. Scheifele has 38 points in 42 playoff games and 21 goals

 

[WolfHouse]

At least he was doing that is what i meant which you need to win a hockey game. I also think Scheifele and Connor take shit on here all the time, some of it deserved, but Ehlers can do no wrong and the guy absolutely disappears every playoffs.4 goals in 37 playoff games is not good enough.

Really? Posters have been crucified ehlers for weeks now... he's not great in the playoffs but he got us back into the edmonton series and was really solid that's all I remember

 

[Jets 31]

Really? Posters have been crucified ehlers for weeks now... he's not great in the playoffs but he got us back into the edmonton series and was really solid that's all I remember

Really i must have missed that. Ehlers is one of our best players, 4 goals isn't good enough at least to me and Helly won us that series i think.

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

Really? Posters have been crucified ehlers for weeks now... he's not great in the playoffs but he got us back into the edmonton series and was really solid that's all I remember

We were up 2-0 when he came back.

 

[Daximus]

Really? Posters have been crucified ehlers for weeks now... he's not great in the playoffs but he got us back into the edmonton series and was really solid that's all I remember

The series that we swept them and we were already up 2-0 when he came back?

Of all the players I would pin that series win on, Ehlers is pretty low on the list.

The facts are that Ehlers becomes a different player in the playoffs. That's not really debatable. He becomes a scared perimeter player who does everything he can to avoid body contact and never drives the net unless he's got a breakaway. He doesn't sacrifice anything to help us win, just does his best to not be touched.