Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[ecolad]

To be fair to Chevy, it's a lot easier to entice the type of guys you want to Florida than Winnipeg

I should have anticipated that this would likely go in every which direction. I agree fully with what you say but that simply makes Chevy`s job much harder. Even if he can`t entice the best available players to make roster adjustments, I`d hope that he would still try to secure player "types" that more closely match what he and the coach want.. I quite frankly don`t see much of that when Chevy does make moves.

 

[LowLefty]

really think people are going way too far with the effort level narrative and ignoring the top of the line talent of these teams...

I don't -
It's the missing ingredient IMO - and should be easier to enlist based on all the feedback about how hard it is to draw talent into Wpg.

 

[gojetsgo]

I don't -
It's the missing ingredient IMO - and should be easier to enlist based on all the feedback about how hard it is to draw talent into Wpg.

do you think the more skilled rosters just simply don't try as hard? two teams can try as equally hard, the more skilled team will come out on top in a 7 game series far more often than not

the missing ingredient is more skill, we desperately need our young players to hit and come in and make an impact like dallas had happen with johnston/harly/stank

 

[Gm0ney]

do you think the more skilled rosters just simply don't try as hard? two teams can try as equally hard, the more skilled team will come out on top in a 7 game series far more often than not

In a 7 game series, luck is probably a bigger factor than talent.

 

[ps241]

One thing the Jets players dont have (other than Lowry) is being naturally mean. Bennet is a bad, mean dude.

Dillon has a mean streak too but our top 6 forwards do not initiate contact. Vilardi is very good at using his size to shield and win board battles but he doesn’t have a mean bone in his body.

 

[LowLefty]

do you think the more skilled rosters just simply don't try as hard? two teams can try as equally hard, the more skilled team will come out on top in a 7 game series far more often than not

the missing ingredient is more skill, we desperately need our young players to hit and come in and make an impact like dallas had happen with johnston/harly/stank

Do I think more skilled rosters don't try as hard?
No, I wouldn't put it that way - that's a blanket statement.
IMO, it's not about one or the other (skill vs hard work) - you need both.
To your point, if both teams are playing equally hard, the more skilled team will usually win (you'd think) -
But that isn't what I'm seeing - we got out skilled and out worked in the PO's.

I'm with you on the youth movement - we need an impact from those guys and I'm optimistic with the crew that is coming up through the system now.
But I also think there is a shortfall in that killer instinct that we are seeing from the teams that are playing right now - they are showing us another level of hockey that is based on skill and compete. I hope we get the compete part from the the youth coming up - I don't think we are getting enough of it from a few of the key pcs in our current lineup.

 

[bumblebeeman]

Do I think more skilled rosters don't try as hard?
No, I wouldn't put it that way - that's a blanket statement.
IMO, it's not about one or the other (skill vs hard work) - you need both.
To your point, if both teams are playing equally hard, the more skilled team will usually win (you'd think) -
But that isn't what I'm seeing - we got out skilled and out worked in the PO's.

I'm with you on the youth movement - we need an impact from those guys and I'm optimistic with the crew that is coming up through the system now.
But I also think there is a shortfall in that killer instinct that we are seeing from the teams that are playing right now - they are showing us another level of hockey that is based on skill and compete. I hope we get the compete part from the the youth coming up - I don't think we are getting enough of it from a few of the key pcs in our current lineup.

I think the issue with the Jets top forwards (Scheif, Connor, Ehlers...) is that they just aren't as good as on these other top teams. I don't think they try less hard, but they don't have that level of ability. Like any of them would be at best 3rd best forward on the Oilers or Florida (or Colorado for that matter). I think Chevy knows this and is going for the Vegas style strong depth team and bank on getting great goaltending, considering it's impossible to attract that kind of talent. It's sort of the Jets best bet.

I don't think my Vegas comparison is all that apt really, they are amazing at finding those hidden gems from other teams. Their pro scouting must be on another level. Chevy likes his slow but steady vets

 

[gojetsgo]

Do I think more skilled rosters don't try as hard?
No, I wouldn't put it that way - that's a blanket statement.
IMO, it's not about one or the other (skill vs hard work) - you need both.
To your point, if both teams are playing equally hard, the more skilled team will usually win (you'd think) -
But that isn't what I'm seeing - we got out skilled and out worked in the PO's.

I'm with you on the youth movement - we need an impact from those guys and I'm optimistic with the crew that is coming up through the system now.
But I also think there is a shortfall in that killer instinct that we are seeing from the teams that are playing right now - they are showing us another level of hockey that is based on skill and compete. I hope we get the compete part from the the youth coming up - I don't think we are getting enough of it from a few of the key pcs in our current lineup.

colorado is the fastest team in the league while we are one of the slower teams in the league, no matter how hard we tried we can't match that speed, and of course when they are winning majority of the puck races it's going to look they we aren't trying as hard

 

[Adam da bomb]

I think the issue with the Jets top forwards (Scheif, Connor, Ehlers...) is that they just aren't as good as on these other top teams. I don't think they try less hard, but they don't have that level of ability. Like any of them would be at best 3rd best forward on the Oilers or Florida (or Colorado for that matter). I think Chevy knows this and is going for the Vegas style strong depth team and bank on getting great goaltending, considering it's impossible to attract that kind of talent. It's sort of the Jets best bet.

I don't think my Vegas comparison is all that apt really, they are amazing at finding those hidden gems from other teams. Their pro scouting must be on another level. Chevy likes his slow but steady vets

That’s why every player decision matters, toffoli, vs perfetti. We will never get a dollar “player” so that means it’s all the more important to get everything out of nickel and dimes.
It may not equal a win, but, hopefully it will equal more than this. All the more important to play youth and not defer to vets. Would love more tanev frenetic energy than slow. It might not help, but, god was it entertaining.

 

[kylbaz]

Every other year "we need more balanced lines from top to bottom!"

Edmonton makes the finals, "we need more top end talent on the first line!"

 

[gojetsgo]

Every other year "we need more balanced lines from top to bottom!"

Edmonton makes the finals, "we need more top end talent on the first line!"

no, we need more skill throughout the lineup that will create more balanced lines

 

[Bob E]

I think McGroarty, Barlow and Salomonsson will add some bite to the lineup in the future.

Hopefully the Jets can grab a big, physical, puck moving dman in this year’s draft too.

 

[Daximus]

Every other year "we need more balanced lines from top to bottom!"

Edmonton makes the finals, "we need more top end talent on the first line!"

We need both really.

We have some nice talent coming through the system but it's likely a few years before we see if any of them pan out. We are unlikely to finish low enough to draft anyone with elite talent.

We need a 2C but more likely we need someone who can be a 1C to push Scheif down to a 2C. We need an elite partner to play with Morrissey to establish a truly high end 1st pairing. We need Samberg to establish himself as a true 2LHD or more likely need a solid 2LHD to emerge with some offensive chops we could stick with DeMelo on the 2nd pairing and puts Samberg on a 3LHD shutdown pairing. I think we all hope Heinola can become that. We probably should move Ehlers out as well and hopefully someone establishes themselves as a solid top 6 winger option and we are going to need a capable backup again.

Connor - 1C - Vilardi
Perfetti - Scheif - 2RW
Nino - Lowry - Apples
Iafallo - Gus - Barron

Morrissey - 1RHD
Heinola/2LHD - DeMelo
Samberg - Pionk

Helle
Backup

Lambert (C/RW), Chibrikov (RW), Lucius (C) and Barlow (LW) will all likely get a shot at making the roster next year but spots will be limited and they all are waivers exempt unless we move on Ehlers than top 9 spots are limited.

Salomonsson and Lundmark will get a shot at making a RHD spot but I don't think either really force anyone down the lineup, more likely up.

Rashevsky (RW) and McGroarty (C/LW) hopefully get signed into the org eventually as well and add two more pieces that could potentially be top 9 options.

 

[Jet]

When referring to size, we tend to get hung up around here on that point - but really what it's all about is being big enough to handle the NHL level of grind without being too small to the point where you're disadvantaged.
Lots of room between big and small and that's where most players land. Sometimes when we say big, we just mean big enough.
IMO, this is especially true on D -

Yeah people loathe to say size matters in the nhl but it does.

It's not the only thing that matters obviously but it is a positive attribute nonetheless.

Being big or strong enough for your role and playstyle is critical, and being bigger than most with sputtering skill is a bit of a unicorn.

Imagine if Connor was 6' 5" 245 and kept all his other attributes.

Man no respect for Capo on here - not too many other fanbases would write off AHL dman of the year this easily... or organizations

Isn't he 6'2 200? Like kind of the size and grit we are looking for ? Think he can play right side... Not as fun as throwing out hockeydb names but just seems crazy to walk away from yet another D that we haven't really looked at and sign the flavour of the month

Yeah that one puzzled me a bit.

He was waived by the Coyotes of all teams so maybe there's something else going on there?

 

[Daximus]

Yeah people loathe to say size matters in the nhl but it does.

It's not the only thing that matters obviously but it is a positive attribute nonetheless.

Being big or strong enough for your role and playstyle is critical, and being bigger than most with sputtering skill is a bit of a unicorn.

Imagine if Connor was 6' 5" 245 and kept all his other attributes.

He'd probably be playing on a defensive line in the NFL and making over $30mil a season if that were true.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Yeah people loathe to say size matters in the nhl but it does.

It's not the only thing that matters obviously but it is a positive attribute nonetheless.

Being big or strong enough for your role and playstyle is critical, and being bigger than most with sputtering skill is a bit of a unicorn.

Imagine if Connor was 6' 5" 245 and kept all his other attributes.


Yeah that one puzzled me a bit.

He was waived by the Coyotes of all teams so maybe there's something else going on there?

So Connor still wouldn’t be hitting?

 

[LowLefty]

colorado is the fastest team in the league while we are one of the slower teams in the league, no matter how hard we tried we can't match that speed, and of course when they are winning majority of the puck races it's going to look they we aren't trying as hard

It's not about how hard they tried - that's an easy goal to reach when there is really no way to measure it.
I'd lean more on the systems they used all season (and were successful) that require a degree of hard work - I didn't see them execute those systems as well in the PO's -
I'm all for more skill - that's an easy assessment to make. But I also think a franchise like Wpg will need to be a hard working team that will need to execute a solid 5man system, to counter some of those disadvantages in recruiting top talent that come with this market. I appreciate the idea of drafting, developing and making room for your youth - but not sure that will be enough to keep us competitive.

 

[DRW204]

Every other year "we need more balanced lines from top to bottom!"

Edmonton makes the finals, "we need more top end talent on the first line!"

the journey of the the common EDM criticism around here (no depth, no 2 way fwds, no goaltending, no defense) to where they are now is quite something.

 

[DRW204]

My crystal ball is out of order, can't do exact numbers. Part of what makes it difficult is that we have so little information on alternative scenarios - however, the outline remains the same as always: Ehlers-Scheifele-X, second line Connor, top 6 Nino, third line X and X to play with Lowry. We know nothing about our prospects due to nobody having been given a shot, so experiment with different Xs and find out what works. As for defense, let Stanley go and replace with literally any prospect in the org. The goalies will undoubtedly be worse than last year, so here's hoping that we can offset most of the impact with that.


Right, which is about what I've been saying for the last three years. The only ones who are seemingly unaware of this are Connor apologists, Ehlers haters, and our entire front office (thus far).

Fine by me. Declan Chish

When your line plays the second most on the team, those conversion issues become a problem. That said, I'd much rather have this problem than... well, the first line producing less chances with more talented players.

so, make all this posts and claims in various amount of threads on how it will lead to big improvements, & continuously reference dallas when it comes to prospects and where the team was this season.

then get asked nicely on how much or what the Jets would improve upon their 110 pt/4th overall finish, or which of the prospect will perform like dallas' group (ie: hintz, robertson and co.)...and your response is "cant do exact numbers" or the usual "we don't know these prospects" bullshit. what a cop out.

you're right you/HF (not the actual parent-team) doesn't know squat about these prospects at all. yet, make all these posts as if they have the knowledge or well-equipped with info to make the claims or conclusions.

 

[gojetsgo]

It's not about how hard they tried - that's an easy goal to reach when there is really no way to measure it.
I'd lean more on the systems they used all season (and were successful) that require a degree of hard work - I didn't see them execute those systems as well in the PO's -
I'm all for more skill - that's an easy assessment to make. But I also think a franchise like Wpg will need to be a hard working team that will need to execute a solid 5man system, to counter some of those disadvantages in recruiting top talent that come with this market. I appreciate the idea of drafting, developing and making room for your youth - but not sure that will be enough to keep us competitive.

I don't think you are giving colorado credit for how they changed their game from the regular season vs playoffs against us, I think it had far more to do with colorado changing their game then us just randomly deciding not to do what had worked in the regular season vs them, it's not like our system is 100% flawless and works 100% of the time as long as we try hard, it's why we had 3 different players come out and say we needed to make adjustments

 

[LowLefty]

I don't think you are giving colorado credit for how they changed their game from the regular season vs playoffs against us, I think it had far more to do with colorado changing their game then us just randomly deciding not to do what had worked in the regular season vs them, it's not like our system is 100% flawless and works 100% of the time as long as we try hard, it's why we had 3 different players come out and say we needed to make adjustments

I give the Aves a ton of credit - and there is nothing random about being unable to carry your game plan in the PO's when they have struggled with that for a while now.

Your hyperbole is over the top with these "100%" comments - the system has worked well (who said anything about 100%??) but was not carried into the PO's for whatever reason. Some of it was likely based on the Aves ramping up and overwhelming the Jets - some was the Jets not ramping up the game plan knowing that the PO's are a different animal and would require more effort.

As for trying hard, that's your term, not mine. I see it as a combination of carrying your game plan into the PO's and raising the level of effort knowing that you need to do that in the PO's. Are you saying we did those things and it was simply a matter of talent? If so, I disagree - I think it's more than just talent / skill in the PO's.

 

[surixon]

I should have anticipated that this would likely go in every which direction. I agree fully with what you say but that simply makes Chevy`s job much harder. Even if he can`t entice the best available players to make roster adjustments, I`d hope that he would still try to secure player "types" that more closely match what he and the coach want.. I quite frankly don`t see much of that when Chevy does make moves.

Agreed. His last deadline is a good example. He went out and got really slow players and that hurt the teams ability to play the forechecking type of game they wanted to play. It's like we need a 2C and a panic winger so let's just get who's available instead of targeting a player who fits.

To be fair Monhan does fit if we give him some speed on his wings but Toffolli didn't fit at all.

 

[Daximus]

Agreed. His last deadline is a good example. He went out and got really slow players and that hurt the teams ability to play the forechecking type of game they wanted to play. It's like we need a 2C and a panic winger so let's just get who's available instead of targeting a player who fits.

To be fair Monhan does fit if we give him some speed on his wings but Toffolli didn't fit at all.

I really wasn't all that big of a fan of Monahan either, especially in the playoffs. He looked slow, he was bad in the defensive zone and he didn't contribute much in the offensive side either.

I'd rather we take a step back, inject some youth and see if anyone is ready to take the reigns than sign Monahan as our 2C solution.

 

[surixon]

I really wasn't all that big of a fan of Monahan either, especially in the playoffs. He looked slow, he was bad in the defensive zone and he didn't contribute much in the offensive side either.

I'd rather we take a step back, inject some youth and see if anyone is ready to take the reigns than sign Monahan as our 2C solution.

Oh I agree. I'd much rather integrate Cole at C this year and Lambert at C next year and then make plans to move Scheifele to wing in a couple of years ala what Dallas did with Pavalski. We are going to need two top 6c's in a couple of years so we need to actually start seeing what we have at the NHL level.

But this isn't how this org has operated lately so I don't see much chance of it happening. They will almost assuredly throw big money at Sean to entice him to stay and we will spin our wheels.

 

[ps241]

In a 7 game series, luck is probably a bigger factor than talent.

The teams are so even at this point that, luck, bounces, and randomness is usually the margin of difference but fans focus on the controllable variables to help build the narrative of why.

Hockey is so quirky with the sticks, pucks, ice, bounces, deflections etc