Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[surixon]

You `ve ignored the key descriptor i used - four balanced lines, each of which is fully committed to aggressive two-way 200 foot hockey.

You may perhaps consider Scheifele to be an elite talent but he is still the antithesis of the type of C contemplated with this approach. Think instead of the extreme best fit example - Patrice Bergeron. Do you perhaps know where we can pick up someone young like him

No I don't know where we can get a Bergeron/Crosby/Barkov. They don't grow on trees. But the Vegas Golden Knighrs just won with a flawed offensive one dimensional top C that many didn't think you could win with. Balance requires offensive contributions as well as defensive contributions. Removing Mark likely adversely impacts that balance.

If Vegas can create a team around a player like Echiel why can't we do the same with Schiefele. It's not like he hasn't been our best playoff forward since we got him.

We aren't going to have elite balanced centers on this team barring Perfetti/Vilardi hitting it out of the park better then anyone expects next year. While I have faith in both, it isn't a smart bet to hedge all your hopes on both blossoming. My guess is management us thinking the same.

 

[Daximus]

The talk of $9m for six years of Scheif seems crazy - so age 31-37 basically half your contract is a massive decline in play - maybe more

If you're throwing that contract around give it to Helle


Vegas realized you need LTIR to win...

Adding Eichel. Pies and Stone certainly helped along with some cap circumvention.

No I don't know where we can get a Bergeron/Crosby/Barkov. They don't grow on trees. But the Vegas Golden Knighrs just won with a flawed offensive one dimensional top C that many didn't think you could win with. Balance requires offensive contributions as well as defensive contributions. Removing Mark likely adversely impacts that balance.

If Vegas can create a team around a player like Echiel why can't we do the same with Schiefele. It's not like he hasn't been our best playoff forward since we got him.

Hey now don't you disrespect Adam Lowry like that,

But honestly. You can build a team around players like Scheif and we have proven that. Had we ran into anyone but Vegas in 2018 we were going to the Cup finals. Don't think we would have won because the Caps were on a legacy mission which just destroyed everything in their path but either way we would have made it.

 

[DRW204]

You `ve ignored the key descriptor i used - four balanced lines, each of which is fully committed to aggressive two-way 200 foot hockey.

You may perhaps consider Scheifele to be an elite talent but he is still the antithesis of the type of C contemplated with this approach. Think instead of the extreme best fit example - Patrice Bergeron. Do you perhaps know where we can pick up someone young like him

2-way 200 ft hockey includes offense.
goal-scoring this team was bottom-third.
defensively/GA this team was fine. not top-tier defensively but not as great of a weakness compared to scoring.

 

[Daximus]

2-way 200 ft hockey includes offense.
goal-scoring this team was bottom-third.
defensively/GA this team was fine. not top-tier defensively but not as great of a weakness compared to scoring.

Vilardi should help that but Scheif was a great scorer last year and one of the few consistent scorers. Especially with Connor being off.

 

[surixon]

2-way 200 ft hockey includes offense.
goal-scoring this team was bottom-third.
defensively/GA this team was fine. not top-tier defensively but not as great of a weakness compared to scoring.

Yup and imo the team only got better defensively adding Vilardi and Iafallo upfront. Plus we will have full years of Nino and Namestnikov.

 

[ecolad]

Except Seattle also had their own 40+ goal scorer on their team too? removing scheifele equates to removing your most dangerous scorer in the POs, along w/ his regular season prowess, and this team has shown they're incapable of doing anything w/o scheifele in the line-up when it matters most in the post-season.

the guy was playing w/ the likes of appleton, kuhlman or gagner the first half of the year and notching 40+ goals, including 24 in the 1st half. he was setting his linemates up at some of the highest rates (comparable to that of J. Hughes, Panarin and other top NHL playmakers) but line-mates could not finish. Can't control play? he had the highest share of individual-to-total GF at 5v5 hockey on the team, and one of the highest in the NHL. seems to me he finishes the plays way beyond the abilities of his line-mates & the rest of the team.

despite himself finishing plays again at an otherworldly rate - shooting a super efficient 20% (5v5), his overall on-ice sh% was still middle-of-the-pack of the team. removing scheifele's individual GF/shot contributions his linemates shot a prosperous 5.94% & scored with a -11.76 in GF vs xGF no wonder why his assist numbers were way low this season.

idk how people watched this team last year, or reviewed their league-wide scoring or defensive and GA stats/rankings and conclude the problem is defending/GA?

at 5v5/all-strengths per 60:
xGF; 12th/13th
GF; 23rd/21st

xGA: 13th/15th
GA; 8th/11th

they have a finishing problem. it's been like that for the past couple years. im not convinced that removing your best finisher will net out better in GF vs GA. the true problem IMO is this team puts scheifele-connor together frequently. both are not great defensively and they decide to stack them together. keep scheifele and KC away from each other (both were positives in net-offense when apart) and should be fine.

add nino for a full season, ehlers as well. fingers crossed that one of Vilardi or Perfetti can be a 60+ pt 2C and the fwd group is fine.

re-signing scheifele ultimately depends on the contract demands, and who the alternatives may be at 1C that can carry the load.

this team should - if healthy - should now have 10+ 10-goal scorers. 5+ 20-goal scorers and another 1-2 40+ goal scorers, which will be similar to SEA's goal-scoring spread.

Re the bolded. Never said that -in fact I was one of the early posters last year to suggest that the Jets top lines were likely to disappoint and experience problems with GF.

Yes, the team last year did not perform well in a number of ways and Scheif was no worse than his teammates. And yes, there is reason to be optimistic about this coming season. But I still think the Jets would be well served to let Sceifele depart and bring on a youthful much less expensive C who plays a predictable style of 2 way hockey- and obviously capture some cap flexibility for upgrading at positions of perceived need.

 

[Daximus]

Yup and imo the team only got better defensively adding Vilardi and Iafallo upfront. Plus we will have full years of Nino and Namestnikov.

Kupari is actually pretty solid defensively too despite being more of an offensive player.

Re the bolded. Never said that -in fact I was one of the early posters last year to suggest that the Jets top lines were likely to disappoint and experience problems with GF.

Yes, the team last year did not perform well in a number of ways and Scheif was no worse than his teammates. And yes, there is reason to be optimistic about this coming season. But I still think the Jets would be well served to let Sceifele depart and bring on a youthful much less expensive C who plays a predictable style of 2 way hockey- and obviously capture some cap flexibility for upgrading at positions of perceived need.

The problem is where are we going to find that? They don't grow on tree's and no one is just giving them away for free.

No team wins on defence alone and giving away Scheif is literally giving away our most consistent scorer since we returned and our best playoff performer.

 

[ecolad]

This this and so much this,

Vegas realized that it takes elite talent to win. Just like every single other winner over the last forever. No team wins on depth alone and never has.

Depth can get you to the playoffs, elite talent gets you over the edge and vice versa. You need both to win. Have one or the other and you will not win a Cup period.

I can fully agree. But there is a practical reality for teams like the Jets as well.Filling key positions with elite talent will probably come from internal the org and will take time. We are not Vegas and are not able to simply buy the talent to take the team over the edge as you put it.

 

[DRW204]

Re the bolded. Never said that -in fact I was one of the early posters last year to suggest that the Jets top lines were likely to disappoint and experience problems with GF.

Yes, the team last year did not perform well in a number of ways and Scheif was no worse than his teammates. And yes, there is reason to be optimistic about this coming season. But I still think the Jets would be well served to let Sceifele depart and bring on a youthful much less expensive C who plays a predictable style of 2 way hockey- and obviously capture some cap flexibility for upgrading at positions of perceived need.

This was your in your OP:

I appreciate how difficult it would be to replace Scheifele`s goal production but think that things could more than balance out with a changed TEAM approach ( 4 lines with acceptable but not outstanding GF and with reduced GA)

They were essentially a top 10 GA team and bottom 10 GF team this past season. They need better depth scoring along with high end.

Look at Seattle's highest goal scorer, along with how many 10+, or 20+ goals scorers they have. A full year with Nino, Ehlers, Perfetti and adding Iafallo should have us with a similar spread of goal scoring.

Then you went on how he cannot control play when in fact he was contributing more relative to his linemates than anyone on the team (assuming this was meant offensively but my bad if you ment defensively).

I have no idea if they're better served if he leaves or not at the end of the contract. It depends what they do with the cap space (are they bringing in high quality FA? Unlikely) and depends who can carry the 1C load. I haven't heard any suggestions.

 

[Daximus]

I can fully agree. But there is a practical reality for teams like the Jets as well.Filling key positions with elite talent will probably come from internal the org and will take time. We are not Vegas and are not able to simply buy the talent to take the team over the edge as you put it.

110%

We are unlikely to ever get Eichel and Stone to choose to be traded here (Stone is from Winnipeg by the way so it hurts even more) and we are unlikely to get a Pies to sign here. So we have to go about thing differently. So when we do get a high offensive talent who is the face of the franchise through the draft and we ditch him the moment he turns 30 what does that say to the rest of the kids we draft?

That says we don't give a shit about you just as much as Vegas doesn't give a shit about you, The only difference is no one likes living here and Vegas is a premier destination. We cannot approach our players the same way Vegas does and just cast them off into the abyss the moment they look like they might be declining because players see that and think f*** that place it's a shit place to live and they don't give a f*** about their guys.

 

[robertocarlos]

Where do we get this magical LTIR? Dr. Nick?

 

[ecolad]

Yup and imo the team only got better defensively adding Vilardi and Iafallo upfront. Plus we will have full years of Nino and Namestnikov.

Agree fully. But thats why the time is right to fully commit to a change in direction. All these guys "fit" well and provide flexibility - now it`s a matter of rethinking our needs at the C positions and in doing so, also drop forever the notion of a special "checking line" centered by Lowry. The Jets appear to be hanging on to a notion that is no longer in vogue in nearly all progressive organizations.

 

[DRW204]

Where do we get this magical LTIR? Dr. Nick?

except if we LTIR our best players for 20-40+ games we probably don't make the POs? Vegas was w/o Stone, Eichel and Lehner.... where are we w/o similar depth-charted players?

 

[trebendan]

Trade proposal:

To Buffalo: Helle & Pionk

To Winnipeg: Olofsson, Middlestat, Lyubushkin, Comrie, 2024 1st.

Thoughts?

 

[10Ducky10]

We would lose our first next year by moving Schmidt, that's for sure. As for on the ice, we'll have to wait and see. Probably not much at all, because Schmidt really doesn't have a spot in the top 4 anymore.

Boy, those 2021 trades to improve the defense are not looking very hot right now.

Stanley and a 3rd.

 

[Gil Fisher]

I think the Jets can afford a bit of an overpay on a "legacy" contract for Scheifele. I think he might retain his performance better and for longer than Wheeler, since he relies a lot on his puck skills and finishing. Players like Giroux and Pavelski have sustained their offensive performance as they've aged. I could see Scheifele maintaining enough fitness to stay effective into his mid-30s.

I'd be ok with a legacy contract for Scheif. I might feel differently if we had a bunch of stars coming up on ELCs to sign, but we don't.

It would save me having to buy a new jersey.

5 or 6 years for Scheifele makes a lot of sense. Give him a good 2 way guy on his wing (Iafollo) and see if he rejuvenates his 2 way game.

I realize this isn't the smartest way to run a franchise, BUT....

We've underpaid Schief for his last deal. I have no problem with a slight overpay on his next one

I think things like that might matter to players. Winnipeg will never be known as a geographically desired market, but having word out that the organization is fair to their players and looks after them can't hurt.

You've all gone soft!

 

[Buffdog]

You've all gone soft!

That's what she said

 

[Flair Hay]

Stanley and a 3rd.

Wouldn't hold my breath

 

[10Ducky10]

Trade proposal:

To Buffalo: Helle & Pionk

To Winnipeg: Olofsson, Middlestat, Lyubushkin, Comrie, 2024 1st.

Thoughts?

Olofsson is horrible defensively.
We have LB, no meed for Comrie.

 

[scelaton]

....
That says we don't give a shit about you just as much as Vegas doesn't give a shit about you, The only difference is no one likes living here and Vegas is a premier destination. We cannot approach our players the same way Vegas does and just cast them off into the abyss the moment they look like they might be declining because players see that and think f*** that place it's a shit place to live and they don't give a f*** about their guys.

But that is not what TNSE has ever done. As everyone here well knows, loyalty to players, and the resulting failure to act in a timely manner, has been the problem, not the bolded.
Scheifele has brought this on himself for a variety of reasons that are not worth debating at this point. Remember when he was going to have a statue here? That was the original plan, but it's not working out that way, because Scheifele is not Hawerchuk and does not deserve a statue or even a 7-8 year "legacy" contract.
Tough pill to swallow, for sure.

 

[Maukkis]

Stanley and a 3rd.

Nowhere close to enough. Actually good players cannot fetch their teams anything, we sure as hell aren't going to dump Schmidt for the spare parts of other spare parts.

 

[Heldig]

You've all gone soft!

I would RATHER the Jets trade Scheifele but if there is no market for him keeping a top offensve C is not the worst thing.

 

[Daximus]

You've all gone soft!

 

[oldunclehue]

Spittin Chiclets producer who is a HUGE bruins fan just tweeted a gif of Scheifele….maybe a trade to Boston?

 

[Atoyot]

Spittin Chiclets producer who is a HUGE bruins fan just tweeted a gif of Scheifele….maybe a trade to Boston?

Seems like a stretch based on the evidence, but we do seem like good trading partners. Bruins need a center and have two starting goalies.