Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[WolfHouse]

Buchnevich has another year left on his contract

I'm not sure that is a selling point anymore with so many teams against the cap

 

[gojetsgo]

I'm not sure that is a selling point anymore with so many teams against the cap

so they are willing to trade him for a package they can get during the summer or next years deadline when they are currently in a battle for a playoff spot? I mean come on, if they aren't getting value for 2 playoff runs then they won't trade him now they will just hold on and wait

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The same people who HATE plus minus.

The same people who say faceoffs don't matter.

If you look at metrics and hockey stats nerds it becomes clear that most of them really aren't literate when it comes to statistical science.

When you take the fact that a lot of its based on bad or incomplete data, is further polluted by bias and ulterior motives (driving a narrative) and the people interpreting the stats are amateurs you can quickly see where the problems lie.

Plus/minus is a whole different kettle of fish. And the fish have been around for a long time.

Are there any people who say faceoffs don't matter?

 

[Jet]

Plus/minus is a whole different kettle of fish. And the fish have been around for a long time.

Are there any people who say faceoffs don't matter?

Oh yeah, there's a bunch of fancy fans that say that because 5% only equals a couple extra wins a game it doesnt matter.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think there is a 0.0001% chance to him being traded at the deadline

So ....... there's a chance?

(I think you need 2-3 more zeros after the decimal.)

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Oh yeah, there's a bunch of fancy fans that say that because 5% only equals a couple extra wins a game it doesnt matter.

I don't think so. There are a bunch who say it is overrated and that it matters less than many people think. But it still matters.

Something that I notice - eye test only - is that very often the team that 'wins' the FO losses possession almost instantly. The guy that gets the puck off the FO is checked before he has a chance to protect the puck. I think that happens often enough to make technical FO wins even less important. At the same time it makes clean FO wins that lead to puck control even more important. But that is not tracked. Only raw wins/losses.

Clean wins on ST are much more important than wins at even strength, IMO. Do players have different FO% rates at those times?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Tarasenko for Montreal's 2nd and the 1st in 2025 plus Ville for Larrson.

Perfetti Scheif Volare
Nino Names Ehlers
KC Monahan Tarasenko
Iafallo Lowry Apples

JMo Larsson
Dillon DD
Sammy Pionk

That is a pretty high price to rent Tarasenko and a pretty low one for 2 PO runs with Larsson. Both players have trade protection.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

That's a lineup that is swinging for the bleachers.
I say go for it this year and next.

You can say what you like, but Zhamnov is right. Lowry is not moving down to the 4th line.

Even if we were to go out and get another 2C option who might be better than Monahan at even strength, Monahan would just move to a wing. It would not push Lowry down. If Names was moved back to 2C, again it is Monahan who moves, not Lowry.

 

[10Ducky10]

That is a pretty high price to rent Tarasenko and a pretty low one for 2 PO runs with Larsson. Both players have trade protection.

Tarasenko will get more than a 2nd.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Tarasenko will get more than a 1st.

OK, but not that much more. Mtl is currently 6th from the bottom and sinking. That 2nd is pretty high.

 

[10Ducky10]

OK, but not that much more. Mtl is currently 6th from the bottom and sinking. That 2nd is pretty high.

I meant more than a 2nd.

 

[CrosbyStaalsAndNash]

murat doesn't seem to think they are done "with plenty of cap space left, Winnipeg is not nearly done shopping."

Jets and Philly continue to scout eachother from earlier in the year when it was speculated that TK may be available.

3+ months of regular scouting at the NHL and AHL level seems to indicate there may be significant trade developing that's more than just Sean Walker as a TDL rental

 

[Huffer]

Would anybody entertain a deal centered around Perfetti for Buchnevich?

Not for a millisecond

 

[Whileee]

I think the Jets are likely waiting for the mix of buyers and sellers is sorted out more, which should stabilize the market in terms of supply and demand (generally the number of sellers increase, and buyers decrease).

With the Jets having some cap space, they are probably able to acquire players at a lower cost than teams that will need to bank on salary retention. That can be quite pricey.

My guess is that Chevy will definitely want another solid, depth D, probably on the physical side of the ledger. That's not a bad idea, since the Jets only depth among the "physical" D is Stanley. We've already seen that Bowness tends to like to have at least two big D in the line-up.

The other emerging need is probably a middle-6 winger with some size and speed that can play the right side. Unless Bowness decides that Ehlers can play RW in the top-6, it's probably better to have another F that can play "above" Appleton. Ideally, it would be a RW that could play alongside either Scheifele or Monahan, and make both of those lines positive. Maybe something like this?

27-55-13
81-23-RW(new) (Tarasenko? Eberle?)
62-17-22
91-7-9

36, 15, 19

44-2
5-4
54-88

LD(new), Heinola, Stanley, Capobianco

Another option might be to go after a top-line LW to move Connor down to the 2nd line. There are a couple of options that could be big swings (Guentzel, Buchnevich). Then you could try something like...

Guentzel-Scheifele-Vilardi
Connor-Monahan-Ehlers
etc.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I think the Jets are likely waiting for the mix of buyers and sellers is sorted out more, which should stabilize the market in terms of supply and demand (generally the number of sellers increase, and buyers decrease).

With the Jets having some cap space, they are probably able to acquire players at a lower cost than teams that will need to bank on salary retention. That can be quite pricey.

My guess is that Chevy will definitely want another solid, depth D, probably on the physical side of the ledger. That's not a bad idea, since the Jets only depth among the "physical" D is Stanley. We've already seen that Bowness tends to like to have at least two big D in the line-up.

The other emerging need is probably a middle-6 winger with some size and speed that can play the right side. Unless Bowness decides that Ehlers can play RW in the top-6, it's probably better to have another F that can play "above" Appleton. Ideally, it would be a RW that could play alongside either Scheifele or Monahan, and make both of those lines positive. Maybe something like this?

27-55-13
81-23-RW(new) (Tarasenko? Eberle?)
62-17-22
91-7-9

36, 15, 19

44-2
5-4
54-88

LD(new), Heinola, Stanley, Capobianco

Another option might be to go after a top-line LW to move Connor down to the 2nd line. There are a couple of options that could be big swings (Guentzel, Buchnevich). Then you could try something like...

Guentzel-Scheifele-Vilardi
Connor-Monahan-Ehlers
etc.

Can’t see kc being moved down, therefore , I only see the depth d option as realistic.

 

[Wpgpage]

Jets and Philly continue to scout eachother from earlier in the year when it was speculated that TK may be available.

3+ months of regular scouting at the NHL and AHL level seems to indicate there may be significant trade developing that's more than just Sean Walker as a TDL rental

People are not going to like it but I bet its Risto. PHI possibly scouting Chib? He played with Michkov for one year in St Petersburg.

Its long been rumored Chevy has been after him and we have seen Chevy circle back to his guys time and time again. I can see Chevy being very open to a deal built around Risto for Chib. Not so sure I like it but I can see it happening.

 

[DRW204]

I think the Jets are likely waiting for the mix of buyers and sellers is sorted out more, which should stabilize the market in terms of supply and demand (generally the number of sellers increase, and buyers decrease).

With the Jets having some cap space, they are probably able to acquire players at a lower cost than teams that will need to bank on salary retention. That can be quite pricey.

My guess is that Chevy will definitely want another solid, depth D, probably on the physical side of the ledger. That's not a bad idea, since the Jets only depth among the "physical" D is Stanley. We've already seen that Bowness tends to like to have at least two big D in the line-up.

The other emerging need is probably a middle-6 winger with some size and speed that can play the right side. Unless Bowness decides that Ehlers can play RW in the top-6, it's probably better to have another F that can play "above" Appleton. Ideally, it would be a RW that could play alongside either Scheifele or Monahan, and make both of those lines positive. Maybe something like this?

27-55-13
81-23-RW(new) (Tarasenko? Eberle?)
62-17-22
91-7-9

36, 15, 19

44-2
5-4
54-88

LD(new), Heinola, Stanley, Capobianco

Another option might be to go after a top-line LW to move Connor down to the 2nd line. There are a couple of options that could be big swings (Guentzel, Buchnevich). Then you could try something like...

Guentzel-Scheifele-Vilardi
Connor-Monahan-Ehlers
etc.

doubt KC gets moved off the top-line

no idea what tarasenko, guentzel or buchnevich go for, but w/o a 1st this year id probably be asking for one of the recent 1st rd prospects as a main piece esp. for the latter two players - something chevy has never done before in a tdl trade.

 

[Buffdog]

Jets and Philly continue to scout eachother from earlier in the year when it was speculated that TK may be available.

3+ months of regular scouting at the NHL and AHL level seems to indicate there may be significant trade developing that's more than just Sean Walker as a TDL rental

That's a hell of a username

 

[Boonk]

People are not going to like it but I bet its Risto. PHI possibly scouting Chib? He played with Michkov for one year in St Petersburg.

Its long been rumored Chevy has been after him and we have seen Chevy circle back to his guys time and time again. I can see Chevy being very open to a deal built around Risto for Chib. Not so sure I like it but I can see it happening.

That would be a terrible trade and theres no way chevy does it. Sorry, but that contract and his play is terrible and Philly is stuck with him. If were trading Chibrikov its for a better asset.

 

[WolfHouse]

Well since we are drifting back into imaginary trades....

CSV
Vatrano-Monahan-Ehlers
NLA
Barron-Names-Iafallo/Perfetti

Jomo-Demelo
Dillon-Durzi
Samberg-Pionk

 

[Adam da bomb]

Well since we are drifting back into imaginary trades....

CSV
Vatrano-Monahan-Ehlers
NLA
Barron-Names-Iafallo/Perfetti

Jomo-Demelo
Dillon-Durzi
Samberg-Pionk

Csv
Kaprizov mcdavid ehlers
NLA
Barron names perfetti

Jomo tanev
Dillion Demelo
Berg pionk

Helly.

 

[Atoyot]

I wonder if Seattle would be willing to part with Bjorkstrand in a year that they're not making the playoffs. They paid a 3rd and a 5th for him and could trade him for much, much more. Him and Ehlers have some history together on the national team.

Wish the Jets could have jumped in and beaten the 3rd and 5th price. Wouldn't have been upset giving a 1st for him, would have been ecstatic giving a 2nd. Guy has a Tanev motor while being much more skilled everywhere else.

 

[Atoyot]

The same people who HATE plus minus.

The same people who say faceoffs don't matter.

If you look at metrics and hockey stats nerds it becomes clear that most of them really aren't literate when it comes to statistical science.

When you take the fact that a lot of its based on bad or incomplete data, is further polluted by bias and ulterior motives (driving a narrative) and the people interpreting the stats are amateurs you can quickly see where the problems lie.

You're lumping a lot of people together here. The issue with +/- is that anything it could suggest 5v5 +/- is better at measuring. There's nothing that +/- can tell you that 5v5 +/- can't tell you more accurately.

I've tried this analogy before and didn't get much of a response to it.

Imagine you have 2 devices, A and B. Device A will definitively tell you 2 numbers in the next lottery draw. Device B will give you 4 numbers, with 2 of those numbers being the numbers that Device A would give you. Knowing something twice doesn't add value. Device A doesn't have value so long as Device B exists. +/- doesn't have value as long as 5v5 +/- exists. Having the <1% of the game that results in empty net goals and shorthanded goals factor into the number doesn't make sense at all, it's just noise that obscures the information you're trying to glean from the data.

Analytics are a thing that has been in hockey forever. It's frustrating that people feel like they have to be staunchly against it or for it. There are people who misuse it for sure but that doesn't mean they're useless. They have measurable value and the anti-analytics crowd (and the analytic users that don't understand what they're talking about) are way too intent in trying to prove the other extreme wrong.

 

[raideralex99]

Analytics are a thing that has been in hockey forever. It's frustrating that people feel like they have to be staunchly against it or for it. There are people who misuse it for sure but that doesn't mean they're useless. They have measurable value and the anti-analytics crowd (and the analytic users that don't understand what they're talking about) are way too intent in trying to prove the other extreme wrong.

I don't believe in analytics I can shoot so many holes it in .... way too many variables.
I will give you a perfect example since I was at the Canucks game close to the action. Demelo was knocked off the puck twice by Di Giuseppe and the Canucks applied pressure for at least 2 mins with 3 close in scoring chances but Helle stopped all of them (1st period) and it was all because of Demelo. Analytics says forward line was terrible which was not the case. I see Bones mentioned it in his post game comments (Coyotes) there's 5 players on the ice.
I find eye test works the best ... I don't need fancy stats to tell me the Jets should have lost or the number one line got caved especially when the Jets won and the #1 line scored all 4 goals.
You know what stats are important in no particular order .. scheduling, refs, injuries and special teams. With the refs I don't mean bias towards the Jets ... if a ref calls a lot of penalties teams with depth get screwed. Fourth lines mins get cut and the other 3 lines don't get in a rhythm.
Andy Reid said when he makes his game plan he finds out who is reffing the game ... they have stats on all the refs.
How many penalties they call and if the call lots of holding penalties. Smart coach

 

[Atoyot]

I don't believe in analytics I can shoot so many holes it in .... way too many variables.
I will give you a perfect example since I was at the Canucks game close to the action. Demelo was knocked off the puck twice by Di Giuseppe and the Canucks applied pressure for at least 2 mins with at least 3 close in scoring chances but Helle stopped all (1st period) and it was all because of Demelo. Analytics says forward line was terrible which was not the case. I see Bones mentioned it in his post game comments (Coyotes) there's 5 players on the ice.
I find eye test works the best ... I don't need fancy stats to tell me the Jets should have lost or the number one line got caved especially when the Jets won and the #1 line scored all 4 goals.
You know what stats are important in no particular order .. scheduling, refs, injuries and special teams. With the refs I don't mean bias towards the Jets ... if a ref calls a lot of penalties teams with depth get screwed 4th lines mins get cut and the other lines don't get in a rhythm.
Andy Reid said when he makes his game plan he finds out who is reffing the game ... smart coach.

This is a hallmark of critics who don't know what they're talking about. "I have this one example of analytics not perfectly lining up and that means all analytics are wrong". That's not what analytics purports to do, at all, and if that's how you perceive them you're wildly off base and have no clue what you're talking about. You've chosen a conclusion and have decided to work towards it rather than taking information and working towards a conclusion.

Your single example doesn't override empirical evidence. The fact that you think it does shows that you're trying to talk about something that you're not educated in at all.