Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[Maukkis]

Sure, but again.. what happens to the line you take him from?

I think people are missing the point here... the idea with combinations isn't to place the 3 "best players" on the first, next 3 on the second, etc...

It's about being able to win as many matchups as possible. Now, I think that people in here define "winning" differently that the org, which is part of the disconnect between what people think is optimal player deployment vs what were seeing. People think that each line needs to completely tilt the ice vs their opponents instead of simply outscoring them (or even being even)

As I mentioned in the GDT, the top line is basically treading water vs it's opponents in terms of GF and GA... but we're wining matchups down the line up, on special teams and in net. What if that's how the org has designed the team to be successful?

They pay Bowness seven-figures to figure that one out. Given that they have players like Iafallo and Namestnikov on the fourth line, I'm pretty sure they'll be able to make something up. And in any case, that's the least of our worries - our two scoring lines are not performing well at all. That's all we choose to put out there, and thus we do not have the luxury of having problems with those lines.

I don't think you're necessarily wrong with the things you say, but with regards to the final sentence, I do want to point out that this team has been mediocre dogshit between 2019 and 2023, missing the playoffs twice and having their run cut short early too many times in that time frame. I don't think you can honestly and confidently say that there's a method to the madness in our lineup.

 

[Buffdog]

not really. prior to Scheifele missing time in Jan through 5 GP they had 4 GF a a trio (comparable GF/60 rate as December). and w/ Lowry during the Chicago game they had 2 GF. after that the team got SO'd against Philly and then KC came back.

so it was really 1 game they went cold with Lowry.

In order, here are the game logs from Ehlers, Vilardi, and Schief. Note the goose eggs at the end of Decmeber...

Ehlers:

Vilardi:

And schief:

 

[DRW204]

In order, here are the game logs from Ehlers, Vilardi, and Schief. Not the goose eggs at the end of Decmeber...

Ehlers:
View attachment 823387

Vilardi:

View attachment 823397

And schief:

View attachment 823398

Images aren't showing up.

Your OP was early January they went cold and changed the lines. Early Jan they were scoring.

And ok they went cold for a few games that's bound to happen. Were they poor defensively? They didn't net negative on the ice despite that (notice Scheifeles flat line and remaining stable in goal differential in the end of December before rising again).

Seems to me the started out really hot, levelled off a bit - but weren't a negative line - and then started producing again till scheifele got hurt, and then kc came back.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I would literally trade Connor for any serviceable ~55-60 pt top-6 player who plays hard on both sides of the puck and has some physicality just to get him off this team. I was a Connor supporter but the run the Jets went on without him and how they regressed as soon as he came back has opened my eyes.

Connor + Jets 2025 1st + Barlow for Brady Tkachuk

Connor one for one for Konecny

Connor one for one for Tuch

Heck I'll even consider moving him for a Zegras or Troy Terry who are most likely not as good

To play devil's advocate here a bit, Jets record with Connor before the injury was pretty good too. I don't think the change since he came back is on him.

OTOH, Jets showed that they could pick up the scoring without him so it is not like they lose 40 goals/season if he was gone.

 

[WolfHouse]

Really thought the crazy trade talk would have died down considering we just won 4 of the last five...

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

For all the badmouthing of Connor on here he keeps putting up points. Other players on the team like Perfetti and Ehlers not so much.

No one is denying that. It is undeniable. No other Jet has scored 47 G lately. The entire debate is about net benefit.

Unfortunately, many Jets fans here insist on having a conflict situation between Ehlers and Connor. I guess that is the fault of the coaches (yes, ALL of them). They keep giving all the prime minutes to Connor. Many of us can't see why.

Bottom line IMO, they are 2 very good players, with their warts. I wish we could just be happy to have both of them. Unfortunately usage is making that difficult.

First one I wouldn't touch with a million foot pole.
Second one Philly needs to add.
Third one I wouldn't do because I'd be targetting Mitts if I were dealing with the Sabres.

Not pointed at you at all but here's a stat...
KC in 8 seasons has played in 503 games and scored 228 goals and 230 assists for 458 points.
Ehlers in 9 seasons has played 576 games and scored 192 goals and 240 assists for 432 points.

Like for the first half.

Second part needs to convert those numbers to per 60.

 

[Buffdog]

Images aren't showing up.

Your OP was early January they went cold and changed the lines. Early Jan they were scoring.

And ok they went cold for a few games that's bound to happen. Were they poor defensively? They didn't net negative on the ice despite that (notice Scheifeles flat line and remaining stable in goal differential in the end of December before rising again).

Seems to me the started out really hot, levelled off a bit - but weren't a negative line - and then started producing again till scheifele got hurt, and then kc came back.

View attachment 823409

Schief had 8 point in 5 games.ending with the Detroit game in the 22nd of December, then pointless for 4. Those 4 games Vilardi was also pointless and Ehlers had one assist. That's when the blender came out... the games leading up to Schief's injury (Jan 11) ESV wasn't a constant thing. Names had a stint with Ehlers and Vilardi as well

 

[DRW204]

Schief had 8 point in 5 games.ending with the Detroit game in the 22nd of December, then pointless for 4. Those 4 games Vilardi was also pointless and Ehlers had one assist. That's when the blender came out... the games leading up to Schief's injury (Jan 11) ESV wasn't a constant thing. Names had a stint with Ehlers and Vilardi as well

Ok you're right maybe it wasn't constant the TBL game they did try something else.

However it seems like they played a majority of the time together and were scoring in early Jan (using NSTs line tool for Jan 1-10th scheifele-ehlers were 50 mins together 25mins apart, scheifele-vilardi essentially the same)

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Every coach he has had in the NHL is wrong but you are right?
Okay.

It is not Board Bard who is right. It is the factual record of results that is right.

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

Schief had 8 point in 5 games.ending with the Detroit game in the 22nd of December, then pointless for 4. Those 4 games Vilardi was also pointless and Ehlers had one assist. That's when the blender came out... the games leading up to Schief's injury (Jan 11) ESV wasn't a constant thing. Names had a stint with Ehlers and Vilardi as well

Oh yeah! You are totally right, they did switch centres.

Didn’t that last for like the first period of one game and then Bowness switched back?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The numbers seem to support Ehlers vs Connor, but I understand coaches apparent lack of minutes for Ehlers. Especially a guy like Bones who wants structure. Nik is a free wheeler and I think guys have trouble reading off him. He also stands out because of his speed and when he makes one of his “Hope” passes that gets turned over, it stands out like a sore dink.
I like both players when they are on obviously, but I yell at Ehlers more I’d say. (Swears per 60)
I would like to see one of Ehlers or Connor moved for a RHD this summer and have one of our prospects come into the lineup next year to replace him.

I don't really want to see either traded - but it might be the right move, for the right return.

People ignoring PP production when comparing Connor and Ehlers are as ridiculous as other fanbases saying that we're only winning because of helle.

Last time I checked, power play goals count the exact same as even strength ones, just like a goalie is a part of the team just as much as any other position

I don't think anyone is discounting PP production. It is just about trying to compare apples to apples. PP is more difficult to keep the playing field level.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It seems like there are 2 convos happening. Some are arguing to trade Connor and that he makes the team worse, some are arguing that Ehlers should get more playing time. These are very different things clearly. Actually, does anyone not want to see Ehlers get more ice time?

There are a few, not many, wanting to trade Connor. I think quite a few others are arguing that IF one must be traded it should be Connor, not Ehlers. Though it appears to be pretty obvious that the org would disagree with that.

 

[Buffdog]

Ok you're right maybe it wasn't constant the TBL game they did try something else.

However it seems like they played a majority of the time together and were scoring in early Jan (using NSTs line tool for Jan 1-10th scheifele-ehlers were 50 mins together 25mins apart, scheifele-vilardi essentially the same)

All of schief, ehlers and vilardi were putting up a point or so a game (or 2 vs arizona) through January... but my point all along is that they weren't as dominant as they were when first put together in December

 

[10Ducky10]

It is not Board Bard who is right. It is the factual record of results that is right.

The results that have KC scoring more points?

No one is denying that. It is undeniable. No other Jet has scored 47 G lately. The entire debate is about net benefit.

Unfortunately, many Jets fans here insist on having a conflict situation between Ehlers and Connor. I guess that is the fault of the coaches (yes, ALL of them). They keep giving all the prime minutes to Connor. Many of us can't see why.

Bottom line IMO, they are 2 very good players, with their warts. I wish we could just be happy to have both of them. Unfortunately usage is making that difficult.



Like for the first half.

Second part needs to convert those numbers to per 60.

You can have your stats, I'd rather have someone that actually puts up the points on the ice.

 

[Jets 31]

Really thought the crazy trade talk would have died down considering we just won 4 of the last five...

Ya but we didn't win the right way damnit.

 

[Jets 31]

Connor's defense can be frustrating but he's got 37 points in 38 games this season so far and 20 goals, the guy produces.

 

[hn777]

All of schief, ehlers and vilardi were putting up a point or so a game (or 2 vs arizona) through January... but my point all along is that they weren't as dominant as they were when first put together in December

They were not scoring as many goals during that stretch, but were they outplayed and outscored?

 

[Buffdog]

Ya but we didn't win the right way damnit.

Exactly... those wins don't count apparently. In order for a win to be an acceptable "real win"....

1. All lines must outscore AND out chance their opposition
2. Power play goals are allowed *I think* but #1 still must apply
3. Everyone's pet players must be deployed to each fan's liking with regards to line combos, ice time and special team usage

If we win and the above criteria isn't met, we might as well just forfeit and give the other teams the 2 points

 

[Gm0ney]

ESV was amazing for a shirt stretch, then went cold in early January and Bones got the blender out. By thr time they were split up, they had come back down to earth

	Date	TOI	CF%	GF	GA	GF%	xGF	xGA	xGF%
ESV	Jan 1-11	53:04	45.80	4	2	66.67	2.86	3.05	48.41
CSV	Feb6-20	58:10	36.43	3	5	33.33	1.85	4.96	27.13

If ESV were going cold, what would you call CSV's run since Scheifele returned?

 

[Buffdog]

	Date	TOI	CF%	GF	GA	GF%	xGF	xGA	xGF%
ESV	Jan 1-11	53:04	45.80	4	2	66.67	2.86	3.05	48.41
CSV	Feb6-20	58:10	36.43	3	5	33.33	1.85	4.96	27.13

If ESV were going cold, what would you call CSV's run since Scheifele returned?

Holy f*** ypu people don't read...

1. I said they went cold at the end of Dec when the tree of them combined for 1 Assist over 4 games
2. The going cold was in comparison to when they were dominating in mid December
3. I never.once mentioned CSV, so nice strawman

Since you're pulling stats, now do both those line combos vs the rest of the line combos. The whole team went into the shitter after the ASB, and the whole team was playing well when they were on their heater

 

[10Ducky10]

Holy f*** ypu people don't read...

1. I said they went cold at the end of Dec when the tree of them combined for 1 Assist over 4 games
2. The going cold was in comparison to when they were dominating in mid December
3. I never.once mentioned CSV, so nice strawman

Since you're pulling stats, now do both those line combos vs the rest of the line combos. The whole team went into the shitter after the ASB, and the whole team was playing well when they were on their heater

Not to mention we aren't getting much from the D corps in way of goals this year.
DD, Sammy and Schmidt all have only 1 goal.
Morrissey 7, Dillon 6 and Pionk 4.
I expect more from everyone but Dillon.

 

[Adam da bomb]

No one is denying that. It is undeniable. No other Jet has scored 47 G lately. The entire debate is about net benefit.

Unfortunately, many Jets fans here insist on having a conflict situation between Ehlers and Connor. I guess that is the fault of the coaches (yes, ALL of them). They keep giving all the prime minutes to Connor. Many of us can't see why.

Bottom line IMO, they are 2 very good players, with their warts. I wish we could just be happy to have both of them. Unfortunately usage is making that difficult.



Like for the first half.

Second part needs to convert those numbers to per 60.

Also kc has 7 assists in last few games. Both have been on top pp. The pp has executed better with kc. But it’s not like Ehlers doesn’t have good players to create with on the second unit in perfetti and big #62 who must get annoyed when Ehlers tries to do it himself.

Top line they probably defer to schief’s pick. It would be hilarious if it comes out years later he preferred playing with Ehlers.
It’s easy to get frustrated by both. Kc doesn’t play D enough. I also get frustrated by Ehlers slappers from the point, when there is no screen.
I think better to slow it down get it deeper and look for a shot from the slot.
So I can see how that would be frustrating for his line mates.
He is better defensively so it would be good if he got more shifts later in the game when defending a lead. That would mess with the two lines learning to gell.

If you have to trade one, I agree trade Connor. A goal scorer will bring back more. Then a well rounded line driver. Also createsspace for Lambert or Mcgroaty.

 

[WolfHouse]

Not to mention we aren't getting much from the D corps in way of goals this year.
DD, Sammy and Schmidt all have only 1 goal.
Morrissey 7, Dillon 6 and Pionk 4.
I expect more from everyone but Dillon.

I mean DeMelo is on pace to match his career year in points, Dillon has the most goals he's ever scored, Samberg on pace for more than double his points last year, Pionk still on pace for 30+ points... Team is on pace for slightly less goals from the D than last year - but really not by much

If JoMo's shooting percentage wasn't slumping we wouldn't be worried about D production at all...

 

[10Ducky10]

I mean DeMelo is on pace to match his career year in points, Dillon has the most goals he's ever scored, Samberg on pace for more than double his points last year, Pionk still on pace for 30+ points... Team is on pace for slightly less goals from the D than last year - but really not by much

If JoMo's shooting percentage wasn't slumping we wouldn't be worried about D production at all...

Points are fine but I was talking about goals. We need goals.

 

[WolfHouse]

Points are fine but I was talking about goals. We need goals.

I mean we have scored 13 goals in the last 3 games... so I suspect the drought is over