All Purpose Mitch Marner Talk II

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More people actually focus on what their AAV's were at that time.

Marner: $10.893 million AAV x 6 years.

Kane: $6.3 million AAV x 5 years.
Average isn’t the right way but they do.% of cap hit is the right way to compare. At least it gets close to including natural contract escalation for different years. Many years difference in many cases. He needs to be compared to Rantanen’s and Eichels and not cherry picked comparisons. He still comes out on top production wise. This board is kinda nuts on Marner. To many clowns
 
Also interesting that Dekes didn’t use Steven Stamkos as a comparable if we want to jump in the way back machine. His cap % was over 11% so closer to Marner’s number, but you can’t rationalize away a 50 goal season on an ELC quite so easily.
Excuse me? You're the one rationalizing away Marner's excellent play. Like every other time you have done this, you have brought absolutely zero substantiation for your claims, while I have supported my position.

I gave you the opportunity to pick comparables, but you specifically told me to name the comparable. For a high-end playmaking winger, I chose two other high-end playmaking wingers, including the player that pretty much everybody seems to agree was a good comparable, and one that was more recent. Both Kane and Stamkos cap hit percentages were over 11%. Why exactly is a goal-scoring center a better comparable for Marner?

If I just wanted to make Marner look good, I would have taken one of the other high-end post-ELC winger contracts, because pretty much all of them make Marner's contract look better than Kane's does. The closest actual contract value to Marner in the cap era is probably Vanek (11.6m x 7 years), and Marner blows him out of the water, but I figured that was an unfair comparison. Would you like one of Ovechkin (15.5m x 13 years), Kovalchuk (13.4m x 5 years), Nash (11.3m x 5 years), or Heatley (9.4m x 3 years) instead? Or if you have a non-"time machine" request, I'm all ears. I can pop Marner into the Eichel comparison I did for Matthews if you'd like. Same draft and everything.

Maybe we should actually get the comparable down first, because it just seems like you're shifting the goalposts whenever I show your claims to be wrong.
 
More people actually focus on what their AAV's were at that time.
No, they don't. That would be illogical. They were signed under wildly different caps. Kane's contract under the same cap as Marner would be 9m x 5 years. Which means Marner would probably be 1.2m or so higher than Kane on the same term, which aligns quite well with how much better Marner was than Kane.
 
If I just wanted to make Marner look good, I would have taken one of the other high-end post-ELC winger contracts, because pretty much all of them make Marner's contract look better than Kane's does. The closest actual contract value to Marner in the cap era is probably Vanek (11.6m x 7 years), and Marner blows him out of the water, but I figured that was an unfair comparison. Would you like one of Ovechkin (15.5m x 13 years), Kovalchuk (13.4m x 5 years), Nash (11.3m x 5 years), or Heatley (9.4m x 3 years) instead? Or if you have a non-"time machine" request, I'm all ears. I can pop Marner into the Eichel comparison I did for Matthews if you'd like. Same draft and everything.
Vanek's contract post ELC was that offer sheet he signed with Edmonton and Buffalo matched it which was $7,142,857 AAV x 7 years.

If your going to compare him with Marner at least post the correct numbers.
 
No, they don't. That would be illogical. They were signed under wildly different caps. Kane's contract under the same cap as Marner would be 9m x 5 years. Which means Marner would probably be 1.2m or so higher than Kane on the same term, which aligns quite well with how much better Marner was than Kane.
I seem to remember more people focusing on Marner's $10.893 million AAV instead of the percentage of the Leafs salary cap.
 
Vanek's contract post ELC was that offer sheet he signed with Edmonton and Buffalo matched it which was $7,142,857 AAV x 7 years. If your going to compare him with Marner at least post the correct numbers.
I did post the correct numbers. That is the equivalent contract value under the same cap as Marner.
 
In the 2016-17 Season Matthews was 1st with 69 points.

In the 2017-18 Season Marner was 1st with 69 points.

In the 2018-19 Season Marner was 1st with 94 Points.

In the 2019-20 Season Matthews was 1st with 80 Points.

However I'm sure you would agree that after Marner's 94 points during the 2018-19 season, 4 points against Boston during those seven games would be considered a disappointment. Especially since the Maple Leafs were up 3-2 in that series with a chance to eliminate Boston in Game 6 which was played in Toronto.
Why would you be sure he would agree that a bad production year is a disappointment. Thats life for players in the playoffs man. I’m sure i would not agree. Players putting up 1 point per game average in the playoffs are the cream of the crop.it’s nice but can’t be expected every year. It just can’t and circumstances of series don’t matter. If he plays well and gets zero points in a series it fine long as we win the series. Joe Thornton is not a point per game playoffs.
I don’t know where some people get their expectations from.
 
I did post the correct numbers. That is the equivalent contract value under the same cap as Marner.
Except how many people look at the equivalent under todays cap when it comes to Marner's contract?

Personally speaking I like to use their actual contract numbers for what they were at that time, instead of saying what they would be today to justify Marner getting $10.893 million AAV which is still an overpayment.
 
Except how many people look at the equivalent under todays cap when it comes to Marner's contract?

Personally speaking I like to use their actual contract numbers for what they were at that time, instead of saying what they would be today to justify Marner getting $10.893 million AAV which is still an overpayment.
Man. Did St Louis overpay for Krug (6.5MM) considering Rielly only makes $5MM? Thats like 30% more.
 
Except how many people look at the equivalent under todays cap when it comes to Marner's contract?
Marner's contract was signed under the same cap we are currently under, so it's already the same. Cap hit percentage is what GMs and agents care about, and what contracts and comparables are based on. It's the only logical way to account for cap inflation.
 
Marner's contract was signed under the same cap we are currently under, so it's already the same. Cap hit percentage is what GMs and agents care about, and what contracts and comparables are based on. It's the only logical way to account for cap inflation.
When Vanek signed that offer sheet the salary cap going into the 2007-08 Season was $55,630,000.

When Marner signed his contract extension the salary cap going into the 2019-20 Season was $81.5 million.

Also the cap was not the same because in between was the 2012-13 lockout which was the reason for that 48 game schedule in 2013.
 
When Vanek signed that offer sheet the salary cap going into the 2007-08 Season was $55,630,000.
When Marner signed his contract extension the salary cap going into the 2019-20 Season was $81.5 million.
Yes... that's kind of the point... The caps were wildly different. The cap has inflated over time, and with it, so have contract values. That is why cap hit percentages are used for comparables, not raw cap hits. Anything else would be illogical.
 
Why is Marner even on the PK? Cant win a draw, blocked one big shot against Boston 3 years ago. Other than that has he been a top 4 defensive forward on the team?
 
I can not see Matthews and Marner on the PK together at the same time. With the chances of having to block shots and the possibility of getting injured when that happens, I rather not have them out together on the same PK shift.
If you have them on the same shift, there is a lower probability that they both get hurt
 
Why would you be sure he would agree that a bad production year is a disappointment. Thats life for players in the playoffs man. I’m sure i would not agree. Players putting up 1 point per game average in the playoffs are the cream of the crop.it’s nice but can’t be expected every year. It just can’t and circumstances of series don’t matter. If he plays well and gets zero points in a series it fine long as we win the series. Joe Thornton is not a point per game playoffs.
I don’t know where some people get their expectations from.
Correct me if I'm wrong but after Toronto got eliminated by Boston in 2019 wasn't Marner and Tavares getting criticism for their lack of production compared to what they did in the regular season when Marner got 94 points and Tavares got 47 goal along with 88 points.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but after Toronto got eliminated by Boston in 2019 wasn't Marner and Tavares getting criticism for their lack of production compared to what they did in the regular season when Marner got 94 points and Tavares got 47 goal along with 88 points.
Well on here yeah,of course. Nothing is good enough on the boards bro. As soon as a loos comes after five wins its trade the entire team ha. People are happy to angry from one period to the next ha.
Eichel takes the same cap% and his team has never had a sniff of the playoffs. They started that rebuild before us too. First round exits sure but look at the teams doing it. Washington cup Champion,Bruins Cup champion. Columbus great team game. The cap hit is not a problem causing any lack of competitiveness. Its not a issue. Rantanen makes less and produces less. He’s produced and has driven the play most of the timevsince being a Leaf. On the whole dubas should have said $10,000,000 max for Matthews and Marner. Matthews got a goal scorers premium and Marner got a stupid bonus package Lou burned him on and gave up a extra year of Ufa over Matthews. $400,000 to$500,0000 over paid max
I could find that amount of over pay for 1 player on every team in the league. It’s nothing.
 
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