This thread is really just evidence that some of you will not like Marner, ever, no matter what he does. Pretty sad.
All Purpose Mitch Marner Talk II
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Peasy
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If he plays up to his contract then I would have no problem with him. He's the one that wanted to be paid the 5th highest forward in the NHL coming out of his ELC, so why should he not be held to that standard?
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He's the Jake Gardiner of forwards. When he's on, he is amazing but when he's bad..... holy hell is he putrid to watch
This is not true. It has nothing to do with liking someone or not. Mitch is a great kid and tons of fun. In years past Paul and Mitch have been over to our place when kids played on same team and da kids are still friends today playing video games well into da night. It is only a question of CAP hit for a Leaf supporter like we all are. You can like someone personally, and even like their game, but it does not mean you like their CAP hit in a CBA world where each team is highly limited by their signings. Pretty much everyone on here would be highly supportive of Mitch on an $8M AAV long term deal. But again I have nothing against Paul fighting to da end to get MAX contract for Mitch. This was his chance. I don't need anything from my kids after paying hundreds of thousands for their hockey as kids. But some families need it. You really should be upset with both CBA and Leaf mgmt at time for giving out that contract. Mitch brings what he brings. I wish he would work harder to strengthen/lengthen his stride. Imagine Mitch like 10% faster with ability to not only dangle a guy but to dangle and then blow bye a defender with another gear. He needs to take his game to next level so when he cuts to net he is not in danger of getting his head cut off like last game. I am sure he wants it too. Then he will earn on CAP hit what he produces on ice. And da bitching would stop.
He wanted to be paid what he was worth, just like every other player. I know many like to ignore how contract valuation works in the NHL, but there is no justification for these ridiculous standards and stories that people create.
FFS, we have the exact people that wanted him to shoot more, complaining that he's shooting more, even though he's currently leading the team (and at one point, the league), in goals and primary points and points. He literally drove to the net and almost got decapitated to get a scoring chance and draw a penalty the other day. We complain about backchecking when he's actually one of the better defensive stars, and one of the worst just won MVP. We complain about the way he holds his stick... the way he skates... that he utilizes proper spacing and vision and elite reflexes to steal pucks instead of punching people's faces in. We complain because he dares deke somebody out and maintain possession instead of handing the puck to the other team, like a "gud pro". Hell, we had complaints about his clothing this offseason.
If somebody wants to find a problem, they can find (or create) a problem with literally every single player to have ever played this game. Every time he is perceived to make any mistake, people rush into here to propose trading one of the best young players in the entire cap era. It's really sad that a talent like this is being so massively underappreciated.
Peasy
Registered User
Well clearly people have different perceptions as to what he is worth.
No way in hell is he worth 11m IMO, and MANY people agree with that. And the way the contract negotiations went, how he tried to play victim afterwards, of course people are going to sour on him and expect more. He made his bed, and he can lay in it.
Hope he has a big game tonight, especially with Matthews out. Cause we need it.
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Notsince67
Papi and the Lamplighters
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So he needs to get as good as nylander seeing the crowd around here who thinks he is a better 1st line right winger. Got it.
Not buying it. Many chiming in that they want him to earn his 11mm are just speaking weasel talk. One of them actually claimed once that it would require a consistent 115 pts per season. Quite sure that raises to 120 if Marner accomplishes that.
Notsince67
Papi and the Lamplighters
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Peasy
Registered User
3 year 7-7.5m
6 year 9m
This guy demanded so much more than every comparable around him. And he plays for his home town team, and is gifted sponsorship opportunities one after another. Still wasn't enough for him though.
Throw More Waffles
Unprecedented Dramatic Overpayments
- Oct 9, 2015
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Not a penny more than Point or Rantanen. So there are your 3 year and 6 year numbers.
He's played awful, and he's one of the highest paid players in the league. He bent the team over for every last penny. 10.93 because he "loves Gilmour." Give me a break. Why are you defending him?
The fact that he was paid like a top 5 forward in the league, before he ever took his game to the "next level" is ridiculous.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Dubas is paying him for the player he is going to be just like he did for Matty and Willie.
MapleLeafs77
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- Oct 20, 2017
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I think the issue with mitch is that some people see the stat line and think “yup he is awesome” but others watch the game thinking “damn he is not close to matthews or any player around that money let alone other comparable wingers/forwards”.
He racks up meaningless points in my eyes. Look at his 2 goal night against winnipeg the other night. 2 goals were empty nets and he did nothing on them.
He just doesnt dominate like the incredible players that make his money do. He is honestly kind of like draisaitl (not as good) but he isnt really noticeable but somehow ends the night with 3 points. Making you scratch your head saying when did that happen?
He racks up meaningless points in my eyes. Look at his 2 goal night against winnipeg the other night. 2 goals were empty nets and he did nothing on them.
He just doesnt dominate like the incredible players that make his money do. He is honestly kind of like draisaitl (not as good) but he isnt really noticeable but somehow ends the night with 3 points. Making you scratch your head saying when did that happen?
ZEBROA
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- Dec 21, 2017
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He can be a better RW and better for the team playing with Tavares then with Matthews. Thats not a contradiction.
Notsince67
Papi and the Lamplighters
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so he is worth around Barzal?
Only an Islander homer and a Marner hater would say that
It has everything to do with that. Some people have decided that they dislike Marner, and now they desperately search for anything negative, true or not, while disregarding everything positive.
He has not played awful.
He was one of the best players in the entire league in 2018-2019, prior to signing.
Except he was. His pre-signing period prior to signing his post-ELC contract was one of the best in the entire cap era. People not understanding contract valuation isn't Marner's fault.
Throw More Waffles
Unprecedented Dramatic Overpayments
- Oct 9, 2015
- 12,952
- 9,910
Another way to look at 3x7.5 for Marner is "So, he's worth significantly more than Brayden Point? Only a Marner homer would say that".
Peasy
Registered User
One plays a much more important position than the other. I would not rate Marner in a tier above Barzal personally. I'm sure youre just going to point out point totals, but there is more than that. Barzal also plays on the most defensive team in the league, and has shown that he can put up good offensive numbers when given the chance.
At the time of signing then, please explain to me how he is worth 2m more than Rantanen.
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Who is the second making much less in addition to Rielly? I listed Matthews, Rielly and Tavares - no?
Instead of looking for points/contract value, how about we look at WINS/contract value.
Is Marner's helping the team win in the playoffs? Is JT? Is AM? All three of them are being paid to lead the team to the Cup, are they doing that? Same can be said to McDavid, Eichel, Panarin and other 10Mil plus players, as no team with a 10mil plus player ever move on to a 2nd round(winning playin rounds don't count).
Is Marner's helping the team win in the playoffs? Is JT? Is AM? All three of them are being paid to lead the team to the Cup, are they doing that? Same can be said to McDavid, Eichel, Panarin and other 10Mil plus players, as no team with a 10mil plus player ever move on to a 2nd round(winning playin rounds don't count).
He got 1.6m more than Rantanen, not 2m. And Marner was a considerably better player.
Marner also PKed, was better defensively, had the better single-season, and didn't spent the majority of his ELC with a superior Mackinnon. The perception of what Rantanen was was quite inflated by his PP time.
Throw More Waffles
Unprecedented Dramatic Overpayments
- Oct 9, 2015
- 12,952
- 9,910
Marner is also front-loaded to the cba's limits (Rantanen isn't) and paid in signing bonuses to the cba's limit (Rantanen isn't). Rantanen was paid ZERO in signing bonuses. We were all told in the Nylander/Pastrnak elc comparisons that one breakout year on your last elc year isn't worth nearly as much as two lesser but more consistent years. We also learned in teh Matthews contract threads that goals are much more valuable than points, and Rantanen scored significantly more goals than Marner. You don't understand. We demand... we demand... consistency in relation to arguments made about our other players contracts.
Throw More Waffles
Unprecedented Dramatic Overpayments
- Oct 9, 2015
- 12,952
- 9,910
No. Simply because Marner does have trade value. Marner made well near HALF of his total 6 year contract value 8 months after signing his contract (all for NO aav relief... great job Dubas). I know that sounds completely and utterly impossible and bewildering. But it's actually true.
The good news is that heavily increases his trade value, especially in the cash capped covid world. If Marner were traded after this season (after July 1st) then Marner's "real money" aav is 6.25x4 years. He'd have reasonable trade value.
Of course, in the perfect world, we would have signed Marner to a fair contract, and would have no need to trade away a young star. But Shanahan hired a rookie gm who self admitted is "learning as he goes". There is a price to pay for that.
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