All Purpose Mitch Marner Talk II

[Peasy]

Played 26 mins last night and honestly did he really generate anything?

As Steve dangle said, Mitch Marner is making no more nights off money.

 

[Notsince67]

People who continue to lay a stick on the kid after games like this just shows their immaturity. His game was no worse than other core players of the team. Had he played like McDavid, he would still be getting it, even though he played like dog shit too.
He can take blame for not playing great but this hatred only serves to create perpetual conflict on this fan forum. I'm not sure why it even moderates for other team trolling here when there are enough home grown trolls to ensure everyone else's lives are made miserable.

 

[BAM]

It was a weird game, kinda like the 1st game against the Sens. Puck constantly bobbling, lack of energy in the team. Keefe needs to load up that top unit, when you have Thornton, Simmonds, Rielly, Marner, Matthews as a top unit there's only 1 scoring threat the other team needs to worry about. Nobody is losing sleep over a Rielly slapshot from the point of a Marner muffin over the net. I don't know why the Leafs overcomplicate the most basic shit sometimes. What other team separates their best players on the powerplay? Do the Bolts bring out Kucherov and Point on the 1st unit and then Stamkos, Hedman on the next? What about the Caps or Pens?

None of the big guys really had a noticeable game on both sides but Marner needs to make sure that is he shows that he is on that level of player more often. Teams fear McDavid, Matthews, LD, Marner right now is more of a passenger than a line driver.

 

[Notsince67]

It was a weird game, kinda like the 1st game against the Sens. Puck constantly bobbling, lack of energy in the team. Keefe needs to load up that top unit, when you have Thornton, Simmonds, Rielly, Marner, Matthews as a top unit there's only 1 scoring threat the other team needs to worry about. Nobody is losing sleep over a Rielly slapshot from the point of a Marner muffin over the net. I don't know why the Leafs overcomplicate the most basic shit sometimes. What other team separates their best players on the powerplay? Do the Bolts bring out Kucherov and Point on the 1st unit and then Stamkos, Hedman on the next? What about the Caps or Pens?

None of the big guys really had a noticeable game on both sides but Marner needs to make sure that is he shows that he is on that level of player more often. Teams fear McDavid, Matthews, LD, Marner right now is more of a passenger than a line driver.

Passenger you say?
If anyone would have said that Marner could limit xga matching against mcjesus line, to .7 before the game, they would have been happy. That said, he had a greater ,xgf than both Tavares and Nylander that matched up to a weak Edmonton 3rd line. I'm not sure how much easier to make it for them but they failed miserably. Marner played crap but your selective dress down just doesnt pass the bullshit test.
Seems to me that if he were a passenger, you failed to identify who the vehicle was.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Was Marner originally given an assist on Matthews goal tonight? If so his assist was taken away based on this was tweeted by the NHL PR Twitter account.

I don't care much about this sort of thing but since I remember this pretty well ...

Matthews wins a puck battle in the corner, then shoots and scores. Then I hear they're giving assist to Marner and someone else (not sure who) and I'm thinking WTF? Why are they giving assists to these guys? What for?

 

[Gary Nylund]

I've been as hard on Mitch as anybody and will never like his deal but I feel like there's about ten guys you could complain about before you mention him so far.

Not at that cap hit there isn't.

He frustrates me, but was no worse than anyone else tonight. You want more from you stars, but that goes for Tavares, Rielly and Matthews tonight too.

For the money he gets paid, gotta set the bar higher than that.

 

[janesy12]

Passenger you say?
If anyone would have said that Marner could limit xga matching against mcjesus line, to .7 before the game, they would have been happy. That said, he had a greater ,xgf than both Tavares and Nylander that matched up to a weak Edmonton 3rd line. I'm not sure how much easier to make it for them but they failed miserably. Marner played crap but your selective dress down just doesnt pass the bullshit test.
Seems to me that if he were a passenger, you failed to identify who the vehicle was.

I feel like the limited chances McDavid had was moreso a result of Matthews, rather Marner.
Noticed Matthews a lot more in the defensive zone, breaking up plays and breaking the puck out than Marner.

 

[Notsince67]

I feel like the limited chances McDavid had was moreso a result of Matthews, rather Marner.
Noticed Matthews a lot more in the defensive zone, breaking up plays and breaking the puck out than Marner.

Centermen play deep while forwards play the half wall. It is their job to break up the play but the zone exits was not him. Marner exited the zone with the puck far more, as is expected.

 

[Atomos2]

Not at that cap hit there isn't.



For the money he gets paid, gotta set the bar higher than that.

Damn right. The number of errant passes he made last game was ridiculous. For a guy getting paid to be a playmaker it looked tragically comical watching him flop around unable to make a pass.

 

[4thline]

I don't want to rail on Marner after one bad game. But I've finally put my finger on why I (and I think others) come away annoyed with him so often.

He has a several "house league" hero habits off the puck that make him stick out like a sore thumb and really draw attention when he's not being effective. Ex:

-1 hand on the stick/ wheeling. When Nylander/Matthews are wheeling as close support it's two hands on stick, stick positioned as a clear target, paying attention to the carrier and making themselves an option right through the arc. When Marner is wheeling it's often one hand on the stick, elbows in his armpits, eyes down ice until he takes a couple North/South strides and decides to make himself an option

-his general posture and stride is just weird. In an age where most players have been taught from the same book are are almost indistinguishable in their stance Marner does it his own way, and that way is incredibly reminiscent of that one kid in minor hockey trying to look cool on the ice

-his backcheck is often infuriating. He consciously switches to an incredibly inefficient "looks like I'm working hard cuz I'm bent over, but I'm not actually going any faster" stride rather than being in the moment and just getting where he's supposed to be going

-very stationary off the puck for in zone offence. Some times he forechecks like a mongoose, but if ends up the high man he has a tendency to find a smart place to be and then watch from there. If the puck comes to him hard he looks like a genius, if it doesn't he's flat footed and not in position to support the battle. Often one hand on his stick when this is happening


I think it comes back to his greatest gifts with the puck (vision and creativity) getting in his way without it. He's thinking too much, and is playing based on what he thinks *should* happen at the pace he thinks it should happen at rather than reading and being ready for what will/does happen. If he can make that switch consistently he'll be an every force.

 

[LeafGrief]

Last night he seemed like his skates were tied together and his stick was 2 feet too long, but I thought he was engaged and working hard. I'm not worried about him at all right now.

 

[stickty111]

Played 26 mins last night and honestly did he really generate anything?

As Steve dangle said, Mitch Marner is making no more nights off money.

If Nylander played like that, we would be hearing stuff like lazy, overpaid. When Marner does it, nothing.

Wheeler said it well in this tweet yesterday

 

[pucksakes666]

Next game he will be playing fired up he’ll put the team on his back and rack up a hat trick and an assist. This will be his wake up game as he eyes up trying for the art Ross title this year.

 

[Stephen]

I don't want to rail on Marner after one bad game. But I've finally put my finger on why I (and I think others) come away annoyed with him so often.

He has a several "house league" hero habits off the puck that make him stick out like a sore thumb and really draw attention when he's not being effective. Ex:

-1 hand on the stick/ wheeling. When Nylander/Matthews are wheeling as close support it's two hands on stick, stick positioned as a clear target, paying attention to the carrier and making themselves an option right through the arc. When Marner is wheeling it's often one hand on the stick, elbows in his armpits, eyes down ice until he takes a couple North/South strides and decides to make himself an option

-his general posture and stride is just weird. In an age where most players have been taught from the same book are are almost indistinguishable in their stance Marner does it his own way, and that way is incredibly reminiscent of that one kid in minor hockey trying to look cool on the ice

-his backcheck is often infuriating. He consciously switches to an incredibly inefficient "looks like I'm working hard cuz I'm bent over, but I'm not actually going any faster" stride rather than being in the moment and just getting where he's supposed to be going

-very stationary off the puck for in zone offence. Some times he forechecks like a mongoose, but if ends up the high man he has a tendency to find a smart place to be and then watch from there. If the puck comes to him hard he looks like a genius, if it doesn't he's flat footed and not in position to support the battle. Often one hand on his stick when this is happening


I think it comes back to his greatest gifts with the puck (vision and creativity) getting in his way without it. He's thinking too much, and is playing based on what he thinks *should* happen at the pace he thinks it should happen at rather than reading and being ready for what will/does happen. If he can make that switch consistently he'll be an every force.

The house league hero persona is real with Marner. There’s a Kovalev quote were someone said he took more enjoyment deking an opponent out and cutting back to embarrass him some more than just scoring the damn goal. Marner is a bit similar as he’s got these little fancy extra touches of the puck instead of just making the clean direct play. It’s a fine line between looking like a genius and looking almost unprofessional.

Generally he’s been very good this year but if he’s going to follow that Patrick Kane comparison he needs to really clean up his game, start controlling the puck with more precision and making clean, efficient plays that result in scoring chances. Sometimes it looks like he’s playing for style points.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The house league hero persona is real with Marner. There’s a Kovalev quote were someone said he took more enjoyment deking an opponent out and cutting back to embarrass him some more than just scoring the damn goal. Marner is a bit similar as he’s got these little fancy extra touches of the puck instead of just making the clean direct play. It’s a fine line between looking like a genius and looking almost unprofessional.

Generally he’s been very good this year but if he’s going to follow that Patrick Kane comparison he needs to really clean up his game, start controlling the puck with more precision and making clean, efficient plays that result in scoring chances. Sometimes it looks like he’s playing for style points.

He has been a dangler his whole life ... danglers dangle because they don't have speed to burst away so he really has no choice ... you make it sound like he wants to dangle for dangles sake ... that is not Mitch never been Mitch ... nice narrative but just not true he wants to win but he can't do it on his own ... he does not have a complete game like Matty (but very few guys really have complete games) ... he only has his vision and puck skills to succeed

 

[Notsince67]

If Nylander played like that, we would be hearing stuff like lazy, overpaid. When Marner does it, nothing.

Wheeler said it well in this tweet yesterday

How do you play with Tavares against an edmonton line without MCD and Drai, and not score a goal? Holy shit this is rich.

 

[Stigma]

I don't want to rail on Marner after one bad game. But I've finally put my finger on why I (and I think others) come away annoyed with him so often.

He has a several "house league" hero habits off the puck that make him stick out like a sore thumb and really draw attention when he's not being effective. Ex:

-1 hand on the stick/ wheeling. When Nylander/Matthews are wheeling as close support it's two hands on stick, stick positioned as a clear target, paying attention to the carrier and making themselves an option right through the arc. When Marner is wheeling it's often one hand on the stick, elbows in his armpits, eyes down ice until he takes a couple North/South strides and decides to make himself an option

-his general posture and stride is just weird. In an age where most players have been taught from the same book are are almost indistinguishable in their stance Marner does it his own way, and that way is incredibly reminiscent of that one kid in minor hockey trying to look cool on the ice

-his backcheck is often infuriating. He consciously switches to an incredibly inefficient "looks like I'm working hard cuz I'm bent over, but I'm not actually going any faster" stride rather than being in the moment and just getting where he's supposed to be going

-very stationary off the puck for in zone offence. Some times he forechecks like a mongoose, but if ends up the high man he has a tendency to find a smart place to be and then watch from there. If the puck comes to him hard he looks like a genius, if it doesn't he's flat footed and not in position to support the battle. Often one hand on his stick when this is happening


I think it comes back to his greatest gifts with the puck (vision and creativity) getting in his way without it. He's thinking too much, and is playing based on what he thinks *should* happen at the pace he thinks it should happen at rather than reading and being ready for what will/does happen. If he can make that switch consistently he'll be an every force.

Haha! Good post. I've noticed some of this stuff as well. Particularly the "wheeling" one. It always annoys me how he has one hand on the stick and the other hand is always in that "jogging" motion. You know the way you try to gain speed when jogging with elbow moving back and forth and hand in a fist.

 

[Stephen]

He has been a dangler his whole life ... danglers dangle because they don't have speed to burst away so he really has no choice ... you make it sound like he wants to dangle for dangles sake ... that is not Mitch never been Mitch ... nice narrative but just not true he wants to win but he can't do it on his own ... he does not have a complete game like Matty (but very few guys really have complete games) ... he only has his vision and puck skills to succeed

My point is he does dangle for dangles sake because there are many times where he can make a clean direct play and he’ll elect to hold it for an extra touch and feather it.

 

[Stephen]

Haha! Good post. I've noticed some of this stuff as well. Particularly the "wheeling" one. It always annoys me how he has one hand on the stick and the other hand is always in that "jogging" motion. You know the way you try to gain speed when jogging with elbow moving back and forth and hand in a fist.

The way he back checks hunched over reminds me of Wayne Gretzky speed burst.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

My point is he does dangle for dangles sake because there are many times where he can make a clean direct play and he’ll elect to hold it for an extra touch and feather it.

I get what you are saying but remember he is not strong on puck ... he does not pass hard ... he does not shoot hard ... he doesn't skate fast ... he does not hit ever ... what he does is use his edges to turl so you miss him and use his stick to dangle as it opens up time and space for him to make a play ... then he has great vision to see how a play is gonna unfold before others on same ice do ... when middle of ice gets clogged up and people give him time he can't generate chances as he can't drive da net and he can't make a play ... it is his kryptonite

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I get what you are saying but remember he is not strong on puck ... he does not pass hard ... he does not shoot hard ... he doesn't skate fast ... he does not hit ever ... what he does is use his edges to turl so you miss him and use his stick to dangle as it opens up time and space for him to make a play ... then he has great vision to see how a play is gonna unfold before others on same ice do ... when middle of ice gets clogged up and people give him time he can't generate chances as he can't drive da net and he can't make a play ... it is his kryptonite

He loves it when you try to chase him down like a Rielly would try to do ... he feasts on 1 on 1 play as he is very hard to hit

 

[cesareborgia]

Played 26 mins last night and honestly did he really generate anything?

As Steve dangle said, Mitch Marner is making no more nights off money.

Unfortunately, nights off are the norm for greedy Mitch.

 

[4thline]

Haha! Good post. I've noticed some of this stuff as well. Particularly the "wheeling" one. It always annoys me how he has one hand on the stick and the other hand is always in that "jogging" motion. You know the way you try to gain speed when jogging with elbow moving back and forth and hand in a fist.

I think the back check one pisses me off the most. It's a show of work instead of doing the work. One-hand-wheel I didn't fully realize what was bothering me until last night when a couple different times it ruined the breakout

 

[Stephen]

I get what you are saying but remember he is not strong on puck ... he does not pass hard ... he does not shoot hard ... he doesn't skate fast ... he does not hit ever ... what he does is use his edges to turl so you miss him and use his stick to dangle as it opens up time and space for him to make a play ... then he has great vision to see how a play is gonna unfold before others on same ice do ... when middle of ice gets clogged up and people give him time he can't generate chances as he can't drive da net and he can't make a play ... it is his kryptonite

If we accept that those are his limitations and he can’t overcome them or evolve as a player, the big philosophical question is why are we trying building a championship program around such a Johnny Gaudreau like player?

 

[Brobust]

How do you play with Tavares against an edmonton line without MCD and Drai, and not score a goal? Holy shit this is rich.

To have a job watching hockey and to tweet that is an absolute embarrassment.

That line was a joke last night. They got outplayed by Josh Archibald.