Rumor: ALL PURPOSE JT MILLER THREAD PT2 - It's Been 84 Years....

[Bankerguy]

TDL , Jt. at 50% retention should be the avenue unless the Canucks are securely in a playoff spot. no bubble team BS.

 

[ScottishCanuck]

I just don't see how this works. Severson is a lock to be worth a late first + at the deadline. The market has not shown that Miller would have that kind of value

This is a hilariously bad take. Miller isn’t worth a late first…

 

[EP to EP back to EP]

TDL , Jt. at 50% retention should be the avenue unless the Canucks are securely in a playoff spot. no bubble team BS.

Miller should be traded, even if we are 1st in the Pacific IMO. Team is good enough to make playoffs, but not good enough to push for the cup. No sense in keeping him as a self rental and losing for nothing, just to see round 1-3

 

[Forge]

This is a hilariously bad take. Miller isn’t worth a late first…

Not what I meant. Read a couple more posts. I admit it was worded poorly. I was responding directly to a proposal of severson + 1st + more and was giving severson a quantative value to give an idea on the total value of that package.

He's not worth 2 firsts + 2 prospects which is what people are asking for when they are adding severson to a first + more. That's unparalleled value on a rental. I think Miller gets something along the Taylor Hall trade package

 

[Jerzey Devil]

Not what I meant. Read a couple more posts. I admit it was worded poorly. I was responding directly to a proposal of severson + 1st + more and was giving severson a quantative value to give an idea on the total value of that package.

He's not worth 2 firsts + 2 prospects which is what people are asking for when they are adding severson to a first + more. That's unparalleled value on a rental. I think Miller gets something along the Taylor Hall trade package

Which Taylor Hall trade?

EDM/NJ

NJ/AZ (best return imo)

Buf/Bos

 

[Forge]

Which Taylor Hall trade?

EDM/NJ

NJ/AZ (best return imo)

Buf/Bos

NJ / AZ.

Won't line up exact, but ultimately I think if Miller gets moved as a rental, it's a first, a good but not great prospect, and maybe a second. If there's an additional fodder piece, it's whatever.

 

[OG Eberle]

I mean it is…

What do people get out of making mock trade proposals? Is the owner secretly sending users money for making a great fake proposal instead of upgrading the servers??

I mean, if you truly feel this way, you could just... you know... not come to the FA/Trade Rumors page and click on the links?

Kinda like standing on your soapbox outside a telecoms convention yelling that 5G is gonna kill us all, thinking it will change any one person's way of thinking

 

[ColbyChaos]

I mean, if you truly feel this way, you could just... you know... not come to the FA/Trade Rumors page and click on the links?

Kinda like standing on your soapbox outside a telecoms convention yelling that 5G is gonna kill us all, thinking it will change any one person's way of thinking

I’m here for actual rumors not read 16 pages of neckbeards LARP as GMs

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Miller should be traded, even if we are 1st in the Pacific IMO. Team is good enough to make playoffs, but not good enough to push for the cup. No sense in keeping him as a self rental and losing for nothing, just to see round 1-3

This never happens ever. Name one time ever a team traded one of their top players at the deadline when they were a clear playoff team?
It may happen someday, but it will take a specific type of new age GM to do it. Allvin, espcially with Rutherford hovering around, ain't that guy.

 

[ScottishCanuck]

Not what I meant. Read a couple more posts. I admit it was worded poorly. I was responding directly to a proposal of severson + 1st + more and was giving severson a quantative value to give an idea on the total value of that package.

He's not worth 2 firsts + 2 prospects which is what people are asking for when they are adding severson to a first + more. That's unparalleled value on a rental. I think Miller gets something along the Taylor Hall trade package

No worries, thanks for clarifying. Makes sense.

 

[EP to EP back to EP]

This never happens ever. Name one time ever a team traded one of their top players at the deadline when they were a clear playoff team?
It may happen someday, but it will take a specific type of new age GM to do it. Allvin, espcially with Rutherford hovering around, ain't that guy.

JR has stated that standings doesn't matter. No contract, he will be traded. Hopefully that is true.

 

[tyhee]

I’m here for actual rumors not read 16 pages of neckbeards LARP as GMs

This is a discussion board. People come to discuss hockey and to this thread to discuss anything and everything to do with J.T. Miller. It is unfortunate for you that to find the little bits that interest you involves reading a lot that you don't care about, but that is the nature of the discussion board.

 

[604]

Miller should be traded, even if we are 1st in the Pacific IMO. Team is good enough to make playoffs, but not good enough to push for the cup. No sense in keeping him as a self rental and losing for nothing, just to see round 1-3

If the Canucks are first in the Pacific and trade their #1 centre, the whole team should walk out.

Why even bother playing if management isn't going to believe in your ability to win, despite being first in your division.

 

[EP to EP back to EP]

If the Canucks are first in the Pacific and trade their #1 centre, the whole team should walk out.

Why even bother playing if management isn't going to believe in your ability to win, despite being first in your division.

Because management stated at the beginning of the year that he will be traded no matter what if there is no extension in place. Players already know the plan.

 

[Cogburn]

NJ / AZ.

Won't line up exact, but ultimately I think if Miller gets moved as a rental, it's a first, a good but not great prospect, and maybe a second. If there's an additional fodder piece, it's whatever.

Schnarr - a large winger prospect that scored 102 in 65 OHL game in his D+2
Bahl - a recent 2nd round pick and mastodon of a defender
Merkley - a 22 year old that was a ppg in the AHL the previous season and was more than a ppg through out the WHL and previous 1st round pick
A conditional 1st, on the buy team not picking 1st, 2nd or 3rd overall
A conditional 2nd, based on the buying team winning a playoff series and the acquired player resigning, with the pick being a 3rd if conditions aren't met

For Hall with max retention, and Speers, a prospect not projecting well.

I think that is quite a bit more than fans are asking of MIller's return. But that's just me. If we landed 3 prospects with some manor of upside like the ones listed (at the time), a first and a second/third, I'd be ecstatic.

 

[EP to EP back to EP]

Schnarr - a large winger prospect that scored 102 in 65 OHL game in his D+2
Bahl - a recent 2nd round pick and mastodon of a defender
Merkley - a 22 year old that was a ppg in the AHL the previous season and was more than a ppg through out the WHL and previous 1st round pick
A conditional 1st, on the buy team not picking 1st, 2nd or 3rd overall
A conditional 2nd, based on the buying team winning a playoff series and the acquired player resigning, with the pick being a 3rd if conditions aren't met

For Hall with max retention, and Speers, a prospect not projecting well.

I think that is quite a bit more than fans are asking of MIller's return. But that's just me. If we landed 3 prospects with some manor of upside like the ones listed (at the time), a first and a second/third, I'd be ecstatic.

That would be a good return(todays equivalent). Mercer was selected with #18, so that made this a win for them. Bahl may still become a solid bottom pairing guy who can be the defensive physical presence for a RHS on the 2nd line in the future. He seems to have had a good year in the AHL last year.
Merkley was trending well at the time. and schnarr was never more than a long shot.

 

[Cogburn]

That would be a good return(todays equivalent). Mercer was selected with #18, so that made this a win for them. Bahl may still become a solid bottom pairing guy who can be the defensive physical presence for a RHS on the 2nd line in the future. He seems to have had a good year in the AHL last year.
Merkley was trending well at the time. and schnarr was never more than a long shot.

Schnarr still had that boom or bust title, but that's still a third prospect and an extra pick above and beyond what most Canucks fans seem to want. Again, the equivalent from one of the allegedly interested teams of three prospects and two high draft picks would be a huge win for us.

 

[EP to EP back to EP]

Schnarr still had that boom or bust title, but that's still a third prospect and an extra pick above and beyond what most Canucks fans seem to want. Again, the equivalent from one of the allegedly interested teams of three prospects and two high draft picks would be a huge win for us.

I'd say Miller has more value today, than Hall did when he was traded. Sure Hall was younger, but he hadn't reproduced his Hart year from 2 years prior. He has never been good defensively, nor can he play centre. I'm not saying we will get that haul for Miller. But Hall is probably the best recent TDL example of what Miller can get. There was no Schneider level prospect, if we used the Rangers as an example, a similar offer would be

1st(top 3 protected) conditional 3rd(becomes a 2nd if they win r1 and a 2024 1st if they make ECF, can't do the resigning bit that Hall had, so this is equiv) Chytil/Kakko, Lundqvist, Kravstov/Cuylle. And that would be at the TDL if the Rangers aquired him. We would retain 50% ofc. I put everything in a specific order. Kravstov and Chytil are together and Kakko and Cuylle are together.

 

[Forge]

Merkley was trending well at the time

Merkley was trending down at the time, I'm pretty sure. Or at least stagnate. Production had dipped and I believe he was having issues with health.

Don't believe many considered him a viable solid nhler. Too small for how bad of a skater he was. Reclamation project worth the shot.

Arizona did not have a good farm system at the time and I think most people viewed the devils having decided to go for the quantity approach.

Guys like schnarr and merkley were pretty much fodder. But no reason to not get them if you can.

 

[Cogburn]

I'd say Miller has more value today, than Hall did when he was traded. Sure Hall was younger, but he hadn't reproduced his Hart year from 2 years prior. He has never been good defensively, nor can he play centre. I'm not saying we will get that haul for Miller. But Hall is probably the best recent TDL example of what Miller can get. There was no Schneider level prospect, if we used the Rangers as an example, a similar offer would be

1st(top 3 protected) conditional 3rd(becomes a 2nd if they win r1 and a 2024 1st if they make ECF, can't do the resigning bit that Hall had, so this is equiv) Chytil/Kakko, Lundqvist, Kravstov/Cuylle. And that would be at the TDL if the Rangers aquired him. We would retain 50% ofc. I put everything in a specific order. Kravstov and Chytil are together and Kakko and Cuylle are together.

Haul, Hall, I get it.

That's still way more than I'd be hoping for from a MIller return, and dropping a prospect and the lower pick and getting the better of two assets is still what I'd be wanting. Hall had his one PPG season with Edmonton as opposed to Tampa Bay/New York, and had one 90+ point season prior to this trade, and was only a year or two behind where MIller is now in terms of age, so I think the comparison is merited. I don't know that being a center should increase his trade value solely for position, but I do think it would open up other teams to make a bid, so maybe in an indirect way. I just want Kadri to pick a freaking team so everyone (including us) can move on from this.

 

[EP to EP back to EP]

Merkley was trending down at the time, I'm pretty sure. Or at least stagnate. Production had dipped and I believe he was having issues with health.

Don't believe many considered him a viable solid nhler. Too small for how bad of a skater he was. Reclamation project worth the shot.

Arizona did not have a good farm system at the time and I think most people viewed the devils having decided to go for the quantity approach.

Guys like schnarr and merkley were pretty much fodder. But no reason to not get them if you can.

I thought he still had that top6 potential he showed in his first AHL season which made him worth the gamble.

 

[Forge]

I thought he still had that top6 potential he showed in his first AHL season which made him worth the gamble.

He was a weird watch when we had him. I always felt like he did a good job of being around the puck and was noticeable on the ice. I think he really was a guy that was just undone by a lack of physical skills

 

[EP to EP back to EP]

Haul, Hall, I get it.

That's still way more than I'd be hoping for from a MIller return, and dropping a prospect and the lower pick and getting the better of two assets is still what I'd be wanting. Hall had his one PPG season with Edmonton as opposed to Tampa Bay/New York, and had one 90+ point season prior to this trade, and was only a year or two behind where MIller is now in terms of age, so I think the comparison is merited. I don't know that being a center should increase his trade value solely for position, but I do think it would open up other teams to make a bid, so maybe in an indirect way. I just want Kadri to pick a freaking team so everyone (including us) can move on from this.

1c always has more value than 1lw. There is a reason why it is the more valuable position. If you take health and production into consideration, that only widens the gap in value between the two.
I agree it is more that we are hoping for. I am just talking something a but similar in value, with Miller getting the edge as he has more value now than Hall did back then.

 

[UrbanImpact]

Going to Isles or Preds in my opinion:

Isles
1st, 3rd , Beauvaullier, Raty,


Preds

Frabbro, Prokop, 1st

 

[EP to EP back to EP]

Going to Isles or Preds in my opinion:

Isles
1st, 3rd , Beauvaullier, Raty,


Preds

Frabbro, Prokop, 1st

I like the preds deal better. Fabbro would be a good add if it were possible.