Golf: All Purpose Golf Thread VI | 2017 PGA Tour Season: Here comes Cantlay!

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Thank you for this. I don't think people realize just how bad it can be. I am not a public figure by any means and hardly posted pictures of myself (no selfies or mirror images) and yet I received comments that went way beyond my looks. A picture of the top part of my hand with a scar was a great chance for a stranger to let me know that I should've died.

I'm sorry to hear that you've had to deal with this type of harassment as well. It's becoming far too common where even every day people, such as yourself who post innocent pictures or other content that can be consumed, are coming under attack from these --I don't even know what to call them, but they don't deserve to be called people-- who have convinced themselves that they'll feel better about their own sorry lives by slandering and cyber assaulting others. I'll never understand it and to me it just doesn't make sense how those who nonchalantly dismiss it or pretend it's an overblown issue can do so.

I can't completely relate because while the bigotry I've been subjected to online by some is vile, I've seen my sisters and nieces affected by the reprehensible things that are said to them online and it makes my stomach churn. Instead of victim blaming or sweeping it under the rug, the people who perpetrate this behavior need to start being held accountable by both social media sites and, in more serious cases that become spill from the online realm to real life, law enforcement. Freedom of speech only protects you to a point in the real world, I wonder at what point, as a society, will we start treating online assault with the seriousness it deserves.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

I don't know what Kayla was going to post, but this is a subject that really bothers me and I have to respond.

I think its fair to question whether she markets herself the way it might appear to get more attention and make more money.

Why aren't male athletes subjected to the same prerequisites? Who is anybody to say the way she's "marketing" herself is right or wrong? And if it gets her more attention, again, why is it peoples business? If I recall correctly, Golf Channel dedicated a weeks straight worth of coverage to Rickie Fowler, Jordan Spieth and two other nobodies running around the Bahamas shirtless like frat boys earlier this year. People seemed to love that. She's a woman who is trying to make it onto the tour, who is anybody to say that she is compromising that end goal by posting pictures and videos of herself in somewhat revealing clothing? No matter what she wore, some men would fetish-ise her anyway; I follow enough female athletes and sports to know this is consistently the case without fail.

There are plenty of really good looking athletes who don't market themselves in that way.

And there are many that do, of both sexes. What's the point you're trying to make, exactly? Some athletes are going to try and get exposure if they can, especially in a sport that's not at the forefront of the American consciousness and gets completely relegated in comparison to the PGA.

Does it effect her golf game? Is she more of a social media star than golfing star? Those are fair questions.

They can be asked, they don't have to be answered by her because it's supposition and conjecture on the parts of people who don't know her. What it doesn't explain or excuse is why repulsive internet cowards are making suggestive, disgusting and abusive comments towards her online. Nothing gives somebody the right to tell somebody to kill themselves or that they're any number of derogatory names.

I don't follow the LPGA that closely, but does she get more attention because she's good looking? If that happens, then maybe some criticism of the coverage she gets and how she contributes to that will be fair.

How is she contributing to being told that she should kill herself or that she wasn't raised right? Have these people taken a look in the mirror?

At the same time, maybe thats just the person she is and she'd be posting the same types of pictures, even if she wasn't a professional athlete. I don't know, I'm not going to make a judgement on someone I don't know or barely know anything about, although there are fair questions to ask.

Or maybe people could just leave other people alone and not subject them to ridiculous conjecture and speculation.

The people sending her death threats and mentioning her family in a negative tone, they are just people with serious problems. I certainly don't blame her for having trouble dealing with that, but I would assume a lot of professional athletes get that, and need to find a way to deal with it. I wish there was a way for twitter, instagram, facebook, other social media websites, apps, and not just an account, but recognize their device they are using to access that social media website, app, and permanently ban them.

Just because it doesn't happen to only her doesn't mean we should ignore or downplay the seriousness of this. As I stated, the teenage suicide rate is dramatically up because an increasing number of everyday people are subjected to this behavior online. It is not right and it sickens me that we, as a society, are so content to look for excuses and victim blame instead of getting to the root of the issue and solving (or at least minimizing) it.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't know what Kayla was going to post, but this is a subject that really bothers me and I have to respond.



Why aren't male athletes subjected to the same prerequisites? Who is anybody to say the way she's "marketing" herself is right or wrong? And if it gets her more attention, again, why is it peoples business? If I recall correctly, Golf Channel dedicated a weeks straight worth of coverage to Rickie Fowler, Jordan Spieth and two other nobodies running around the Bahamas shirtless like frat boys earlier this year. People seemed to love that. She's a woman who is trying to make it onto the tour, who is anybody to say that she is compromising that end goal by posting pictures and videos of herself in somewhat revealing clothing? No matter what she wore, some men would fetish-ise her anyway; I follow enough female athletes and sports to know this is consistently the case without fail.



And there are many that do, of both sexes. What's the point you're trying to make, exactly? Some athletes are going to try and get exposure if they can, especially in a sport that's not at the forefront of the American consciousness and gets completely relegated in comparison to the PGA.



They can be asked, they don't have to be answered by her because it's supposition and conjecture on the parts of people who don't know her. What it doesn't explain or excuse is why repulsive internet cowards are making suggestive, disgusting and abusive comments towards her online. Nothing gives somebody the right to tell somebody to kill themselves or that they're any number of derogatory names.



How is she contributing to being told that she should kill herself or that she wasn't raised right? Have these people taken a look in the mirror?



Or maybe people could just leave other people alone and not subject them to ridiculous conjecture and speculation.



Just because it doesn't happen to only her doesn't mean we should ignore or downplay the seriousness of this. As I stated, the teenage suicide rate is dramatically up because an increasing number of everyday people are subjected to this behavior online. It is not right and it sickens me that we, as a society, are so content to look for excuses and victim blame instead of getting to the root of the issue and solving (or at least minimizing) it.

Please, calm down. You are seriously over-analzing what I said.

About half of the discussions people have about Rickie Fowler are about his marketing, and a lot of them are very fair complaints. What's your take on that? Should everyone just stop discussing that because he might not like those discussions?

I don't know her situation completely, so I can't give an opinion, but if the claims are fair that she is an overrated golfer, gets way too much media attention, manufactures media attention and revenue for herself because of her appearance instead of her golf game, people have the right to be critical of that.

The death threats, the mean things said about her family, thats terrible. The regular criticism that every single relevant athlete in the world gets, male or female, I don't know whats wrong with that. The fans are the ones who are the reason why these athletes make any money in that profession, they have every right to peacefully voice complaints over an industry that their dollars and interest control. Fellow pro's also have the right to criticize, as they are likely more personally invested in the situation because it could effect their situation and know the real story better than anyone.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

I agree entirely with Pavel.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Please, calm down. You are seriously over-analzing what I said.

About half of the discussions people have about Rickie Fowler are about his marketing, and a lot of them are very fair complaints. What's your take on that? Should everyone just stop discussing that because he might not like those discussions?

I don't know her situation completely, so I can't give an opinion, but if the claims are fair that she is an overrated golfer, gets way too much media attention, manufactures media attention and revenue for herself because of her appearance instead of her golf game, people have the right to be critical of that.

The death threats, the mean things said about her family, thats terrible. The regular criticism that every single relevant athlete in the world gets, male or female, I don't know whats wrong with that. The fans are the ones who are the reason why these athletes make any money in that profession, they have every right to peacefully voice complaints over an industry that their dollars and interest control. Fellow pro's also have the right to criticize, as they are likely more personally invested in the situation because it could effect their situation and know the real story better than anyone.

Please don't tell me to calm down. You needn't patronize me.

Pavel, intentionally or unintentionally, you're blurring the lines and ignoring the distinction here. I only brought up the way female athletes get criticized compared to male athletes when it comes to marketing themselves because an obvious double standard does exist and it often leads to the type of abuse that Paige has experienced. Your original post infers it's the crux of the issue here and that all the criticism Paige gets stems from the way she conducts herself off of the course. I never said that was unfounded or completely unfair, but what I did say was unfair is how people are quick to judge and jump to conclusions. I also said that the criticism female athletes face is different than that of what male athletes face. All of this is besides the point though, and I think it's a little ridiculous that this discussion has become an argument over what level of decorum and common decency should be displayed when criticizing an athlete which, again, I never said was inappropriate.

There is a difference between just being critical of the way an athlete markets themselves and allowing that criticism to become abusive and derogatory in nature. We are not talking about people who are telling Paige that maybe she'd be better suited to spending less time on Instagram and other social media platforms posting pics and videos in a polite and decent manner. We are talking about Paige being told to kill herself, that her parents raised a horrible human being and that she's a (insert derogatory word here) repeatedly by the people who get glee out of denigrating her because of how she's chosen to conduct herself. If you can't understand the difference between well mannered criticism and what I just referenced, I can't help you. There is no excuse for her to be subjected to that kind of behavior. Whether it's a vocal minority or not, the fact that some of these people feel empowered to say and act this way because of whatever image she may or may not present off the course, is not normal behavior.

I am all for people criticizing athletes when they deserve to be criticized, but blurring that criticism into personal attacks on their character and slandering them is a bridge too far for me.

Where do their rights to be treated like human beings begin and those who criticize them end?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Please don't tell me to calm down. You needn't patronize me.

Pavel, intentionally or unintentionally, you're blurring the lines and ignoring the distinction here. I only brought up the way female athletes get criticized compared to male athletes when it comes to marketing themselves because an obvious double standard does exist and it often leads to the type of abuse that Paige has experienced. Your original post infers it's the crux of the issue here and that all the criticism Paige gets stems from the way she conducts herself off of the course. I never said that was unfounded or completely unfair, but what I did say was unfair is how people are quick to judge and jump to conclusions. I also said that the criticism female athletes face is different than that of what male athletes face. All of this is besides the point though, and I think it's a little ridiculous that this discussion has become an argument over what level of decorum and common decency should be displayed when criticizing an athlete which, again, I never said was inappropriate.

There is a difference between just being critical of the way an athlete markets themselves and allowing that criticism to become abusive and derogatory in nature. We are not talking about people who are telling Paige that maybe she'd be better suited to spending less time on Instagram and other social media platforms posting pics and videos in a polite and decent manner. We are talking about Paige being told to kill herself, that her parents raised a horrible human being and that she's a (insert derogatory word here) repeatedly by the people who get glee out of denigrating her because of how she's chosen to conduct herself. If you can't understand the difference between well mannered criticism and what I just referenced, I can't help you. There is no excuse for her to be subjected to that kind of behavior. Whether it's a vocal minority or not, the fact that some of these people feel empowered to say and act this way because of whatever image she may or may not present off the course, is not normal behavior.

I am all for people criticizing athletes when they deserve to be criticized, but blurring that criticism into personal attacks on their character and slandering them is a bridge too far for me.

Where do their rights to be treated like human beings begin and those who criticize them end?

So then why'd you quote my post with a paragraph analysis of every sentence?

I gave my opinion, which you are barely disagreeing with. I didn't approve of any of the death threats or that stuff. I made clear that I didn't. That stuff was barely even addressed in my post, although I did say that professional athletes need to find a way to not let that stuff get to them. It's not going to just go away because she wants it to. There are always crazy people, and she'll have to find a way to not look at it or not take it too seriously.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

So then why'd you quote my post with a paragraph analysis of every sentence?

I gave my opinion, which you are barely disagreeing with. I didn't approve of any of the death threats or that stuff. I made clear that I didn't. That stuff was barely even addressed in my post, although I did say that professional athletes need to find a way to not let that stuff get to them. It's not going to just go away because she wants it to. There are always crazy people, and she'll have to find a way to not look at it or not take it too seriously.

Because as the bolded illustrates, we're simply coming at this from two different mindsets and the conversation is merely a part of a larger encompassing narrative. Maybe it's because I'm at a different point in my life and am close to starting a family and have seen the impact this type of behavior has had on people I've known that I digress so much with you on this.

It is easy to tell somebody that they shouldn't let "stuff get to them", and pretend that the onus is on them not to let themselves be affected. It's harder to realize that, again, regardless of whether you're a professional athlete in the spotlight like Paige or somebody as innocuous as Kayla posting a regular picture online, it is hard to escape the reality that there are a lot of people out there whose sole purpose seems to be assaulting others online. The effect it has on people and the damage it does is real. And you can't always escape it, even if your best intention is to try. NFL players who have kneeled and are protesting police brutality in the NFL this season have been called ******* and told they should be lynched. Should they also not let that get to them or take it seriously that people out there are saying that because it's going to happen regardless? I never said it's not going to go away but the type of behavior shouldn't be normalized, excused and ignored with the onus on the victims to just "deal with it"... it sets a dangerous precedent in a time where we're so interconnected socially online and even the slightest disagreement with what someone does or says seems to make it okay for others to say whatever they want just because they are blessed with the freedom to do so.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

A caddy collapsed and died during the Dubai Ladies Masters which is rather ******.

 

[KaylaJ]

^Max Zechmann. I didn't know his name, but he was familiar looking since he'd been a Euro caddy for some years.

So then why'd you quote my post with a paragraph analysis of every sentence?

I gave my opinion, which you are barely disagreeing with. I didn't approve of any of the death threats or that stuff. I made clear that I didn't. That stuff was barely even addressed in my post, although I did say that professional athletes need to find a way to not let that stuff get to them. It's not going to just go away because she wants it to. There are always crazy people, and she'll have to find a way to not look at it or not take it too seriously.

You mentioned wishing there were ways social media could deal with this, but enlighten me, why would they try? She admitted to receiving death along with insults towards her family and friends and yet there is a discussion about how she's marketed. Instead of questioning why Twitter, Insta, and others make such long forms to fill out on someone who is harassing, the conversation is always "Well, they should just learn to deal with it". Everyone realizes there is a problem, but it's never pointing out that social media has continually dropped the ball on known trolls, but more so "*shrug* it's the internet". There are plenty of ways it could change, but as long as the mindset is stuck on blaming what the user should do by changing how they use the platform, nothing will change.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

^Max Zechmann. I didn't know his name, but he was familiar looking since he'd been a Euro caddy for some years.




You mentioned wishing there were ways social media could deal with this, but enlighten me, why would they try? She admitted to receiving death along with insults towards her family and friends and yet there is a discussion about how she's marketed. Instead of questioning why Twitter, Insta, and others make such long forms to fill out on someone who is harassing, the conversation is always "Well, they should just learn to deal with it". Everyone realizes there is a problem, but it's never pointing out that social media has continually dropped the ball on known trolls, but more so "*shrug* it's the internet". There are plenty of ways it could change, but as long as the mindset is stuck on blaming what the user should do by changing how they use the platform, nothing will change.

I said social media should find a way to deal with these types of people making these threats, and she should also learn to find a way to not let it get to her. What's wrong with the latter? I think it would be better for her if she was able to deal with the latter.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Victim blame, victim blame, victim blame.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Thoughts on Lydia Ko splitting with coach Leadbetter?

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Anyway, moving on...

I hadn't considered a point that Notah Begay made about Tiger and Torrey. Playing there at that time of year with the inevitable start-stop delays, low cloud cover, rain, fog etc, is probably not the most ideal spot to really give his back another test run. If there is one situation that could cause trouble, as anybody with any sort of back/neck or nerve damage period can attest to, that would be it.

Eventually, he's going to have to deal with a situation like that... just makes me nervous and gives me pause to think that such a stop could be his 2nd time teeing it up on tour after a year and a half off.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

I don't understand...

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't understand...

Playing golf tomorrow with the President-elect!

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Playing golf tomorrow with the President-elect!

Oh God, no. Why Tiger, why?

 

[PanthersPens62]

Here is an article on their round of golf today including a picture of the 2 of them together:

http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id...ing-golf-president-elect-donald-trump-florida

Ser Woof.....you may not want to look.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Here is an article on their round of golf today including a picture of the 2 of them together:

http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id...ing-golf-president-elect-donald-trump-florida

Ser Woof.....you may not want to look.

Already saw it unfortunately.

Wish Tiger would've taken a 9 iron to its head.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Pro golf next week!

Does anyone want to do a weekly prediction contest? We can devise a system for gaining points and every week you make predictions on certain players and get points based on how they place in the event. Not really a fantasy league, more of a contest that can be run in this thread right here.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Only if you do all the work.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Yeah I'm down for that

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Okay, lets hope we get more than three participants though.

Let me think of some rules and then I'll run it by everyone by the end of the week.

 

[Dr John Carlson]

I'll do it.

 

[BluesOne31]

I'll play

 

[Riggins]

I went in to practice today (Golftec) and overheard the head pro raving about this new Callaway driver coming out soon called the Great Big Bertha Epic with "Jailbreak technology". The marketing on this kind of stuff gets pretty comical but this instructor was thrilled with his distance gains after testing it. I'm just a hack starting to take golf more seriously and trying to break into shooting in the mid to high 80s consistently. I couldn't justify that kind of purchase, though I'll test it out when it comes in for fun.